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The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

Eseseso said:
Depends. Usually you need hax layers or resistance negation.

Unless you have Smurf hax.
Click to expand...
No Smurf hax just someone who has tier 1 let's say mind manipulation and then trying to win against someone with mind manipulation resistance. As far as marvel goes is it even possible to keep up with how many layers do characters have? How many layers would someone who can resist Jean Grey telepathy have?
 
I have a question.

So as of the part 2 revisions, we accept that all of Marvel's cosmologies are composited by default. The planes of the Mystery act as the "Creation Zone" that alters Marvel's lore under a narrative sequential axis. That's how we justify Nemesis and the First Firmament being completely different entities with the same function/lore, and the Celestials have several different backstories:
So, did the multiverse start with Nemesis, the entity whose suicide gave birth to the Infinity Gems, for instance? Or did it start with the First Firmament? Both. And neither. Those are simply two different narratives that emerge from the infinite potentiality of the unknowable. True in the sense that they do indeed inform states of affairs that reality has gone through, from the perspective of beings in it, and false on the basis that the essence of the unknowable remains such even as the intellect continues to come up with answers for it. And as shown by the fact that one of the possible origins of the Celestials is that they came from outside of the multiverse, from the same realm as the Beyonders, not even the Mystery escapes from this fluidity.
Click to expand...
So let's say I wanted to make a profile for Marvel's Yahweh. Going off his basic statements:
At least Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ (Far above his Archangels, some of which like Uriel are equal to Mephisto in his own realm. Created the Primal Matrix, the model on which the universes are structured[1]. God said that he brought the universe and its alternate realities into being. Upon sitting on God's throne, the Archangel Zadkiel provoked a quake that could be felt in Heaven, Earth, Asgard and Hell[2]. With God's power[3], Zadkiel would obtain[4] full control over creation[3])
Click to expand...
He'd probably be tiered as bare minimum High 1-B for scaling to the Hell dimensions. Despite how his feats contradict alternate explanations for who created Earth-616, he'd likely be allowed to have these feats since, according to the composite cosmology justifications, both and neither narratives are true.

My question is, how far could you extrapolate Yahweh's statements? Could he scale to the Omniverse since everything under the Mystery is subject to the Creation Zone? Or, since the Mystery falls under this narrative fluidity, could he scale to every plane of existence save for the House of Ideas? Since The One Above All is no longer omnipotent and was also shaped by forces external to him, could you go all the way and assume that Yahweh has The One Above All's full scaling as an alternate narrative incarnation of him from an Unknowable higher plane of the Mystery? Or am I just wanking...
 
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Two questions:

1- Does we scales the Heralds (Such as Thor and Silver Surfer) to a specific MFTL+ or just to non-calculated MFTL+ feats?

2- Do you think Doctor Doom can have a key only for when he is amped by absorbtion, Optional Equipment or Preparation?
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
No Smurf hax just someone who has tier 1 let's say mind manipulation and then trying to win against someone with mind manipulation resistance. As far as marvel goes is it even possible to keep up with how many layers do characters have? How many layers would someone who can resist Jean Grey telepathy have?
Click to expand...

For example: let's say Jean grey is Low 1-A mind hax and tried to control Thor but failed (Giving Thor Low 1-A mind resistance) and Loki with Low 1-A mind hax succeed in controlling Thor. That would give Loki 2 Layers of Low 1-A mind hax
 
Excellence616 said:
For example: let's say Jean grey is Low 1-A mind hax and tried to control Thor but failed (Giving Thor Low 1-A mind resistance) and Loki with Low 1-A mind hax succeed in controlling Thor. That would give Loki 2 Layers of Low 1-A mind hax
Click to expand...
What if Low 1-A mind resistance with 1 layer vs 5-B mind resistance with 2 layers, layers vs potency who has the strongest mind resistance?
Check this out
4Zsk0Zs.png
Click to expand...
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
Just finished another 10 profiles!

Click to expand...
Idk why you bold most of name but its all perfect.
ProfectusInfinity said:
I have a question.

So as of the part 2 revisions, we accept that all of Marvel's cosmologies are composited by default. The planes of the Mystery act as the "Creation Zone" that alters Marvel's lore under a narrative sequential axis. That's how we justify Nemesis and the First Firmament being completely different entities with the same function/lore, and the Celestials have several different backstories:

So let's say I wanted to make a profile for Marvel's Yahweh. Going off his basic statements:

He'd probably be tiered as bare minimum High 1-B for scaling to the Hell dimensions. Despite how his feats contradict alternate explanations for who created Earth-616, he'd likely be allowed to have these feats since, according to the composite cosmology justifications, both and neither narratives are true.

My question is, how far could you extrapolate Yahweh's statements? Could he scale to the Omniverse since everything under the Mystery is subject to the Creation Zone? Or, since the Mystery falls under this narrative fluidity, could he scale to every plane of existence save for the House of Ideas? Since The One Above All is no longer omnipotent and was also shaped by forces external to him, could you go all the way and assume that Yahweh has The One Above All's full scaling as an alternate narrative incarnation of him from an Unknowable higher plane of the Mystery? Or am I just wanking...
Click to expand...
I dont agree with Yahweh to have his own profile. He's too controversial throughout his appearance to even have one. He was based off god from Judaism, Christian and Islam. Not to mention he has some of the nonesense weaknesses like this one:
  • Tripolar Disorder: God suffers from a tripolar disorder, which makes him appear under the form of the Triune: God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, He has also had anger tantrums. He treated his disorder using dilithium.
and also this nonesense note:
  • God rejected to have divinely inspired either the Old Testament, New Testament, the Qu'ran, the Vedas or the divine book version of Duckworld, claiming that he didn't write that badly, stating that those were too much afflicted by internal contradiction, continuity errors and plot holes. He also rejected the concept of religion, and get along better with unbelievers.
 
marvel.fandom.com

Yahweh (Earth-616)

In many of Earth's monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), Yahweh has been viewed as the supreme being, creator of all things, and only God. 11 appearance(s) of Yahweh (Earth-616) 15 minor appearance(s) of Yahweh (Earth-616) 813 mention(s) of Yahweh (Earth-616) 7 mention(s) in...
marvel.fandom.com marvel.fandom.com

Didn’t know this was a thing. Though I’m pretty sure this profile would be allowed since we index SMT on the site.
 
Yuhady123 said:
Idk why you bold most of name but its all perfect.

I dont agree with Yahweh to have his own profile. He's too controversial throughout his appearance to even have one. He was based off god from Judaism, Christian and Islam. Not to mention he has some of the nonesense weaknesses like this one:
  • Tripolar Disorder: God suffers from a tripolar disorder, which makes him appear under the form of the Triune: God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, He has also had anger tantrums. He treated his disorder using dilithium.
and also this nonesense note:
  • God rejected to have divinely inspired either the Old Testament, New Testament, the Qu'ran, the Vedas or the divine book version of Duckworld, claiming that he didn't write that badly, stating that those were too much afflicted by internal contradiction, continuity errors and plot holes. He also rejected the concept of religion, and get along better with unbelievers.
Click to expand...
There's a difference between his portrayals. Ghost Rider stuff approaches God more "seriously". The weird stuff is from the "comedic" Donald Duck stuff where he's a member of some higher race and the universe was a poorly submitted project.

Marvel Database composites a lot, it's not the best source for this stuff. The latter stuff just shouldn't be considered.
 
Yuhady123 said:
Idk why you bold most of name but its all perfect.

I dont agree with Yahweh to have his own profile. He's too controversial throughout his appearance to even have one. He was based off god from Judaism, Christian and Islam. Not to mention he has some of the nonesense weaknesses like this one:
  • Tripolar Disorder: God suffers from a tripolar disorder, which makes him appear under the form of the Triune: God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, He has also had anger tantrums. He treated his disorder using dilithium.
and also this nonesense note:
  • God rejected to have divinely inspired either the Old Testament, New Testament, the Qu'ran, the Vedas or the divine book version of Duckworld, claiming that he didn't write that badly, stating that those were too much afflicted by internal contradiction, continuity errors and plot holes. He also rejected the concept of religion, and get along better with unbelievers.
Click to expand...
We can just remove the nonsensical side of him. irrc, he had a profile on this wiki at one time.
 
Yuhady123 said:
He's too controversial throughout his appearance to even have one. He was based off god from Judaism, Christian and Islam. Not to mention he has some of the nonesense weaknesses like this one:
Click to expand...
  • Mental and Psychological Issues:
    • Tripolar Disorder: God suffers from a tripolar disorder, which makes him appear under the form of the Triune: God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, He has also had anger tantrums. He treated his disorder using dilithium.
    • Depression (possibly): God seemingly suffers from depression since he takes antidepressants, which caused him to suffer a psychotic episode in interaction with dilithium.
    • Sociopathy (possibly): Yahweh considers himself to possibly be a sociopath.
    • Insecurity: Yahweh has stated he was so insecure he needed constant praise to keep his wrath at bay.
Click to expand...
Oh wow, I did not notice that stuff at all💀💀💀

Yeah... if I do choose to make a profile for him (something I suddenly feel less interested in doing), I'm not touching those notes with a 20-foot pole.
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I have a question.

So as of the part 2 revisions, we accept that all of Marvel's cosmologies are composited by default. The planes of the Mystery act as the "Creation Zone" that alters Marvel's lore under a narrative sequential axis. That's how we justify Nemesis and the First Firmament being completely different entities with the same function/lore, and the Celestials have several different backstories:

So let's say I wanted to make a profile for Marvel's Yahweh. Going off his basic statements:

He'd probably be tiered as bare minimum High 1-B for scaling to the Hell dimensions. Despite how his feats contradict alternate explanations for who created Earth-616, he'd likely be allowed to have these feats since, according to the composite cosmology justifications, both and neither narratives are true.

My question is, how far could you extrapolate Yahweh's statements? Could he scale to the Omniverse since everything under the Mystery is subject to the Creation Zone? Or, since the Mystery falls under this narrative fluidity, could he scale to every plane of existence save for the House of Ideas? Since The One Above All is no longer omnipotent and was also shaped by forces external to him, could you go all the way and assume that Yahweh has The One Above All's full scaling as an alternate narrative incarnation of him from an Unknowable higher plane of the Mystery? Or am I just wanking...
Click to expand...
The god in house of ideas is not toaa
 
Tyranno223 said:
We're getting God from Dante's Inferno/Purgatorio/Paradisio soonish, we have Yahweh from WoD, YHVH from SMT, Eru from LotR, etc.

This is little different. Again, just don't use the Donald Duck stuff.
Click to expand...
I think it will be much better if we just focus on cosmic, mythology and other stuff in Marvel. I dont want Marvel to turn into like DC and SMT for using much of religious figure into the cosmology.
 
Last edited:
If he does get a profile, I don’t think he should scale anything higher than the council of godheads level. I also don’t believe his flaws should be kept hidden. Most character histories and weaknesses on the wiki are portrayed as what they are, not what we want them to be.
 
G33kedzinx said:
If he does get a profile, I don’t think he should scale anything higher than the council of godheads level. I also don’t believe his flaws should be kept hidden. Most character histories and weaknesses on the wiki are portrayed as what they are, not what we want them to be.
Click to expand...
It's not that I'm hiding the flaws I'm just saying not to use a comic that was made for comedic purposes while ignoring established lore (which Marvel does on various occasion admittedly).

It is quite literally incompatible with Ghost Rider and other serious portrayals.
 
Howard the Duck comic books are a part of official Marvel canon as far as I am aware.
 
Shouldn't Red Skull's Red Onslaught key be updated to properly scale to the original Onslaught's base form?

vsbattles.fandom.com

Red Skull (Marvel Comics)

Seeing your nation with fresh eyes, my dear Captain America, I assure you-you've lost your war. It just happened so slowly you grew accustomed to it. But if you look to your heart, you will realize the truth. You're fighting to change it back, to add some semblance of sanity to an incurably sick...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Antvasima said:
Shouldn't Red Skull's Red Onslaught key be updated to properly scale to the original Onslaught's base form?
Click to expand...
Yeah along with his base Abilities
Antvasima said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Red Skull (Marvel Comics)

Seeing your nation with fresh eyes, my dear Captain America, I assure you-you've lost your war. It just happened so slowly you grew accustomed to it. But if you look to your heart, you will realize the truth. You're fighting to change it back, to add some semblance of sanity to an incurably sick...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Will do that later
 
Antvasima said:
Shouldn't Red Skull's Red Onslaught key be updated to properly scale to the original Onslaught's base form?

vsbattles.fandom.com

Red Skull (Marvel Comics)

Seeing your nation with fresh eyes, my dear Captain America, I assure you-you've lost your war. It just happened so slowly you grew accustomed to it. But if you look to your heart, you will realize the truth. You're fighting to change it back, to add some semblance of sanity to an incurably sick...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Onslaught

Onslaught is a psionic entity formed from Charles Xavier's pent up frustration towards the advancement of mutant equality and Magneto's lust for vengeance against humanity. Sharing the intelligence and powers of both of its constituent consciousnesses, it proves to be one of the mightiest foes...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hulk (Marvel Comics)

The Hulk is a fictional superhero appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. The character was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and first appeared in The Incredible Hulk #1 (May 1962). Throughout his comic book appearances, the Hulk is portrayed as a large green humanoid...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

I need these profiles opened. I wanna fix their ability tabber
 
This might be obvious, but are we getting a blog for the magical dimensions in part 3 of the revisions? If not, we could really use a second cosmology blog solely for the main universe, something like "The True Extent of Earth-616." I have a truckload of different things going on, but if a blog like that's not being planned, I could potentially make one.

From what I know, the Splinter Realms, also known as the Archipelago of Anguish and Redemption or the Dark Dimensions, all used to belong to a single massive Dark Dimension, until they splintered away during an ancient conflict, leaving the main Dark Dimension as the largest one. The Dark Dimension of course, assimilated many Splinter Realms into itself throughout the dominion of rulers like Dormammu.

All the Splinter Realms should be at least High 1-B since as I explained in my Limbo profile, Limbo is High 1-B, and as I explained in my Dreamqueen profile, all the Splinter Realms should scale to Limbo in dimensionality.

Mephisto's Hell is classified as one of the Splinter Realms, but I'm not sure if the same goes for all the Hell Dimensions (though they have unique High 1-B justifications already).

What I'm still trying to figure out is how the Splinter Realms fit in with the Inner Planes and Outer Planes. Let me elaborate with this cosmology map [Source: Marvel Tarot (Vol. 1) #1; 2007]
uU5ZxNy.jpg
Click to expand...
So the Inner Planes are a series of dimensions closely tied to the Earthly Plane, and the Outer Planes engulf dimensions past the Earthly Plane.

The map isn't drawn to scale (by which I mean, drawn as a ladder where the planes at the top transcend the ones at the bottom). Dimensions like the Crimson Cosmos and Purple Dimensions are explicitly part of the Outer Planes, which transcend the Inner Planes, which includes the Astral Plane. Like Ultima explained in Part 1, pan-dimensional entities like Slorioth will be High 1-B in nature. The Splinter Realms, being pan-dimensional, are also High 1-B in nature. As you can see on the map, the High 1-B Splinter Realms (Archipelago of Anguish and Redemption) are listed on the top half while the Low 1-A Astral Plane is on the bottom half. Cloudsea, one of the Inner Planes, is simultaneously one of the Splinter Realms. I'm probably sounding super confusing at this point, but what I had in mind was:
  • Inner Planes (Unknown baseline): The Inner Planes include realms like Asgard, which I don't believe we have a specific tiering for.
    • Splinter Realms (Baseline High 1-B): Limbo is a pan-dimensional netherworld where all times are one, which interfaces with all planes of existence and realities, with Earth-616 hosting an infinite number of such dimensions, making it High 1-B in nature. Limbo is the center of the Splinter Realms with the other ones lying right outside its borders, making all the Splinter Realms High 1-B in nature for being adjacent to Limbo and thus sharing its nature.
    • Astral Plane (Low 1-A): The Astral Plane is supposedly one of the inner planes, and is accepted as Low 1-A both here and here. It could be considered the "highest" of the inner planes for being explicitly Low 1-A.
  • Outer Planes (Baseline Low 1-A): It stands to reason that since the Outer Planes should encompass and/or transcend all the Inner Planes including the Astral Plane, they should be Low 1-A by default.
Keep in mind that although my justification for the Splinter Realms belonging to the Inner Planes was that all the Splinter Realms seem to be adjacent to each other, and one of the Splinter Realms Cloudsea is part of the Inner Planes, the totality of the Splinter Realms belonging to the Inner Planes may not be necessarily set in stone. There could always be a Splinter Realm that's Low 1-A in nature and belongs to the Outer Planes, but what I'm trying to say is that it wouldn't upscale the baseline for the rest of the Splinter Realms.

Also @Eseseso, I saw your Marvel Magic sandbox here and couldn't help but notice you were struggling to find justifications for the Dark Dimension's cosmological size. I assume you were hoping to find Low 1-A justifications seeing as Dormammu, in his dimension, has the Low 1-A feat of confronting Eternity and holding his own in a fight that would end in trans-dimensional holocaust threatening to destroy both of them? I'm just going off the Marvel Wiki, but the Dark Dimension is said to belong to the Outer Planes, which as I said, should be Low 1-A for lying beyond the Inner Planes, which include the Astral Plane, so that could be your Low 1-A justification. At any rate, it would be bare minimum High 1-B despite lacking pan-dimensional statements since the 4-issue Magik storyline with Amanda Sefton (specifically issue #3) seemed to imply outright that Dormammu was one of the Lords of the Splinter Realms. There's also the fact that the Dark Dimension supposedly assimilated many Splinter Realms into itself.
 
Last edited:
ProfectusInfinity said:
This might be obvious, but are we getting a blog for the magical dimensions in part 3 of the revisions? If not, we could really use a second cosmology blog solely for the main universe, something like "The True Extent of Earth-616." I have a truckload of different things going on, but if a blog like that's not being planned, I could potentially make one.

From what I know, the Splinter Realms, also known as the Archipelago of Anguish and Redemption or the Dark Dimensions, all used to belong to a single massive Dark Dimension, until they splintered away during an ancient conflict, leaving the main Dark Dimension as the largest one. The Dark Dimension of course, assimilated many Splinter Realms into itself throughout the dominion of rulers like Dormammu.

All the Splinter Realms should be at least High 1-B since as I explained in my Limbo profile, Limbo is High 1-B, and as I explained in my Dreamqueen profile, all the Splinter Realms should scale to Limbo in dimensionality.

Mephisto's Hell is classified as one of the Splinter Realms, but I'm not sure if the same goes for all the Hell Dimensions (though they have unique High 1-B justifications already).

What I'm still trying to figure out is how the Splinter Realms fit in with the Inner Planes and Outer Planes. Let me elaborate with this cosmology map [Source: Marvel Tarot (Vol. 1) #1; 2007]

So the Inner Planes are a series of dimensions closely tied to the Earthly Plane, and the Outer Planes engulf dimensions past the Earthly Plane.

The map isn't drawn to scale (by which I mean, drawn as a ladder where the planes at the top transcend the ones at the bottom). Dimensions like the Crimson Cosmos and Purple Dimensions are explicitly part of the Outer Planes, which transcend the Inner Planes, which includes the Astral Plane. Like Ultima explained in Part 1, pan-dimensional entities like Slorioth will be High 1-B in nature. The Splinter Realms, being pan-dimensional, are also High 1-B in nature. As you can see on the map, the High 1-B Splinter Realms (Archipelago of Anguish and Redemption) are listed on the top half while the Low 1-A Astral Plane is on the bottom half. Cloudsea, one of the Inner Planes, is simultaneously one of the Splinter Realms. I'm probably sounding super confusing at this point, but what I had in mind was:
  • Inner Planes (Unknown baseline): The Inner Planes include realms like Asgard, which I don't believe we have a specific tiering for.
    • Splinter Realms (Baseline High 1-B): Limbo is a pan-dimensional netherworld where all times are one, which interfaces with all planes of existence and realities, with Earth-616 hosting an infinite number of such dimensions, making it High 1-B in nature. Limbo is the center of the Splinter Realms with the other ones lying right outside its borders, making all the Splinter Realms High 1-B in nature for being adjacent to Limbo and thus sharing its nature.
    • Astral Plane (Low 1-A): The Astral Plane is supposedly one of the inner planes, and is accepted as Low 1-A both here and here. It could be considered the "highest" of the inner planes for being explicitly Low 1-A.
  • Outer Planes (Baseline Low 1-A): It stands to reason that since the Outer Planes should encompass and/or transcend all the Inner Planes including the Astral Plane, they should be Low 1-A by default.
Keep in mind that although my justification for the Splinter Realms belonging to the Inner Planes was that all the Splinter Realms seem to be adjacent to each other, and one of the Splinter Realms Cloudsea is part of the Inner Planes, the totality of the Splinter Realms belonging to the Inner Planes may not be necessarily set in stone. There could always be a Splinter Realm that's Low 1-A in nature and belongs to the Outer Planes, but what I'm trying to say is that it wouldn't upscale the baseline for the rest of the Splinter Realms.

Also @Eseseso, I saw your Marvel Magic sandbox here and couldn't help but notice you were struggling to find justifications for the Dark Dimension's cosmological size. I assume you were hoping to find Low 1-A justifications seeing as Dormammu, in his dimension, has the Low 1-A feat of confronting Eternity and holding his own in a fight that would end in trans-dimensional holocaust threatening to destroy both of them? I'm just going off the Marvel Wiki, but the Dark Dimension is said to belong to the Outer Planes, which as I said, should be Low 1-A for lying beyond the Inner Planes, which include the Astral Plane, so that could be your Low 1-A justification. At any rate, it would be bare minimum High 1-B despite lacking pan-dimensional statements since the 4-issue Magik storyline with Amanda Sefton (specifically issue #3) seemed to imply outright that Dormammu was one of the Lords of the Splinter Realms. There's also the fact that the Dark Dimension supposedly assimilated many Splinter Realms into itself.
Click to expand...
Damn, you are cooking with this one.

While I'm not sure about any dimension being above the Astral Plane, as it is the very edge of Eternity, the rest looks very promising.

I mentioned some stuff in my magic sandbox about magic realms, but this is honestly excellent.

And thanks for the Dark Dimension stuff!

As for Part 3, Ultima has said it'll discuss the magic stuff but I am not sure if it'll be released any time soon.
 
Antvasima said:
I have unlocked them. Tell us here when you are done. 🙏
Click to expand...
Excellence616 said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Onslaught

Onslaught is a psionic entity formed from Charles Xavier's pent up frustration towards the advancement of mutant equality and Magneto's lust for vengeance against humanity. Sharing the intelligence and powers of both of its constituent consciousnesses, it proves to be one of the mightiest foes...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hulk (Marvel Comics)

The Hulk is a fictional superhero appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. The character was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and first appeared in The Incredible Hulk #1 (May 1962). Throughout his comic book appearances, the Hulk is portrayed as a large green humanoid...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

I need these profiles opened. I wanna fix their ability tabber
Click to expand...
Done
 
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