The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

[Arcker123]

https://imgur.com/gallery/5K5LgpC

 

[Tomfer]

https://imgur.com/gallery/5K5LgpC

No, the majority of DC's urban characters would get ass-whooped in Marvel's urban verse.

 

[Arcker123]

What makes you say that?

 

[Tomfer]

What makes you say that?

In VSbattle, most of Marvel's urban folks either speedblitz or AP-blitz and they have a huge LS advantage too.

Otherwise, Marvel possesss a more versatile arsenal of characters with individual strengths like Wolverine and Deadpool being almost unkillable, Shangi-Chi/Iron Fist/Daredevil being, quite arguably, far more skilled than Batman, Nightwing and possibly even Cassandra. Not to speak about Marvel's villains who are power-houses than most of DC's, if Spidey's villains were up against Batman's, it would be almost a stomp. And most of the Marvel's urban characters don't have a "no kill rule", unlike DC's.

 

[Arcker123]

In VSbattle, most of Marvel's urban folks either speedblitz or AP-blitz and they have a huge LS advantage too.

?

We have modern Deathstroke at 8-C (.4 tons) and Hypersonic+

We have Daredevil tiers at 9-B Hypersonic, Supersoldier tiers at 8-C (.36 tons) Hypersonic, and Spidey tiers at High 8-C Hypersonic. Deathstroke is not by any means Stat eclipsed, this wiki has him faster than Spiderman.

Otherwise, Marvel possesss a more versatile arsenal of characters with individual strengths like Wolverine and Deadpool being almost unkillable, Shangi-Chi/Iron Fist/Daredevil being, quite arguably, far more skilled than Batman, Nightwing and possibly even Cassandra.

I'd argue Deathstroke is a lot more versatile than any given street tier.

He's got a shit ton of gear, can fight from pretty much all ranges, has a healing factor, a tactician on te level of batman (which itself is a huge advantage, I can't see many street tiers being as smart as Deathstroke, save geniuses like BP, Spiderman, Gorgon, and maybe cap), in addition to high scaling in skill.

Not to speak about Marvel's villains who are power-houses than most of DC's, if Spidey's villains were up against Batman's, it would be almost a stomp.

I wouldn't imagine you'd have to be spidey tier to be Marvel's best assassin, given how spideys main rogues aren't considered to be assassins.

And most of the Marvel's urban characters don't have a "no kill rule", unlike DC's.

Deathstroke has stealth, healing factor, batman level intelligence, and experience fighting people who don't care about killing like the League of assassins or Jason.

Not killing is something Slade can and has exploited, but it certainly isn't something he needs.

 

[Tomfer]

Hypersonic+

Only as a possibility that comes from Post-Crisis that also is only "implied". And if we're going with that, we have F4 that just now got Relativistic speed.

Deathstroke is not by any means Stat eclipsed, this wiki has him faster than Spiderman.

Not really since he has "likely far higher" combat speed, and if we are using possibilities, that implies that he can have a completely new tier above the rest. Hell, you can see at his speed section that DD says that he barely keeps up with Spidey.

I'd argue Deathstroke is a lot more versatile than any given street tier.

You'd be wrong, but I respect it.

He's got a shit ton of gear, can fight from pretty much all ranges

Just like Moon Knight, Taskmaster and Reed, that isn't something huge.

has a healing factor

Inferior to Wolverine and Deadpool. And a few characters, like Moon Knight, defeated villains with superior healing factors than Deathstroke's though sheer skill alone.

a tactician on te level of batman (which itself is a huge advantage, I can't see many street tiers being as smart as Deathstroke, save geniuses like BP, Spiderman, Gorgon, and maybe cap)

Yeah, true, but nothing like Taskmaster can do. Task can do pratically anything DS can but better, and the urban heavy-hitters (Spidey, BP and Cap) usually outclass him.

I wouldn't imagine you'd have to be spidey tier to be Marvel's best assassin, given how spideys main rogues aren't considered to be assassins.

That was just an example not connected with the DS point.

Deathstroke has stealth, healing factor, batman level intelligence, and experience fighting people who don't care about killing like the League of assassins or Jason.

Not killing is something Slade can and has exploited, but it certainly isn't something he needs.

True enough, but those arsenals you listed are nothing new to Mravel, and tbh, they are standard (excluding batman level intel).

 

[Arcker123]

Only as a possibility that comes from Post-Crisis that also is only "implied". And if we're going with that, we have F4 that just now got Relativistic speed.

Post Crisis scales to modern Deathstroke. The highest ratings are assumed per SBA.

I won't contest him losing to the fantastic 4 due to speed, but that wouldn't really show him not being able to be the best assassin (Are the F4 even considered Street anyway? I feel like the only one you can make that case for is Reed, but even that's shifty).

Not really since he has "likely far higher" combat speed, and if we are using possibilities, that implies that he can have a completely new tier above the rest. Hell, you can see at his speed section that DD says that he barely keeps up with Spidey.

That doesn't follow. Spidey's speed being possibly higher doesn't mean we can actually give it a rating like Deathstroke.

Stroker is still faster for the time being.

You'd be wrong, but I respect it.

I wouldn't.

Just like Moon Knight, Taskmaster and Reed, that isn't something huge.

Their tech isn't as good as strokey. The Ikon armor and Prometheium blade can absorb energy from superman and use it to damage him, aside from the fuckton of batman level varietty he has.

Also, does a non prep Reed even have that big of an arsenal.

Inferior to Wolverine and Deadpool. And a few characters, like Moon Knight, defeated villains with superior healing factors than Deathstroke's though sheer skill alone.

This was more so to my versatility point so how strong it is isn't the most important. DS's healing factor is still going to be a factor.

Yeah, true, but nothing like Taskmaster can do. Task can do pratically anything DS can but better, and the urban heavy-hitters (Spidey, BP and Cap) usually outclass him.

I have no reason to believe that? He's weaker, slower, and less intelligent. The street heavy hitters have a noticeable physical edge, which they won't have over DS (With the exception of spidey in strength).

That was just an example not connected with the DS point.

You'd just be changing the topic, which I kind of feel has already happened.

We seem to be discussing more DS vs General street tiers instead of Deathstroke as the best assassin. We should be focusing our coversation with characters like Elektra, Sabertooth, Bullseye, and the other hired guns in Marvel.

True enough, but those arsenals you listed are nothing new to Mravel, and tbh, they are standard (excluding batman level intel).

Deathstroke's best gear is gonna be a complete hassle for Marvel street tiers.

His armor and sword being able to block/absorb an annoyed Superman is a crazy feat, and his tactical ability will allow him to galaxy brain most of them, with the debatble exception of BP, Spidey, and Gorgon (Genius Marvel street tiers which spring to mind for me).

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Solar System level using the Gravity Sheath (Can absorb and redirect hits from Superman)

Yeah this would be OP against other Street tiers

Wolverine probably cooks Deathstroke tho

 

[Tomfer]

(Are the F4 even considered Street anyway? I feel like the only one you can make that case for is Reed, but even that's shifty).

They're a mixed core, just like how Moon Knight is a mixture of urban and supernatural core.

I have no reason to believe that? He's weaker, slower, and less intelligent.

Inteligence in general? I agree. Combat-wise? You're completely wrong. Taskmaster has shown far better skill feats than Batman.

You'd just be changing the topic, which I kind of feel has already happened.

We seem to be discussing more DS vs General street tiers instead of Deathstroke as the best assassin. We should be focusing our coversation with characters like Elektra, Sabertooth, Bullseye, and the other hired guns in Marvel.

I agree, that's on me. (Althought most of the street-gang is considered "assassin" just to show off they kill people, lmao)

Deathstroke's best gear is gonna be a complete hassle for Marvel street tiers.

Agree, althought since the force-field is considered just optional equipment. Half of the danger is gone, unless we consider everything on the table?

We seem to be discussing more DS vs General street tiers instead of Deathstroke as the best assassin. We should be focusing our coversation with characters like Elektra, Sabertooth, Bullseye, and the other hired guns in Marvel.

Assassins that come to mind are; Elektra, Sabertooth, Wolverine, Daken, Bullseye, Deadpool, Fantomex, Black Widow, Taskmaster, maaaaybe Punisher... and that's it?

 

[Eseseso]

Post Crisis scales to modern Deathstroke. The highest ratings are assumed per SBA.

I won't contest him losing to the fantastic 4 due to speed, but that wouldn't really show him not being able to be the best assassin (Are the F4 even considered Street anyway? I feel like the only one you can make that case for is Reed, but even that's shifty).

That doesn't follow. Spidey's speed being possibly higher doesn't mean we can actually give it a rating like Deathstroke.

Stroker is still faster for the time being.

I wouldn't.

Their tech isn't as good as strokey. The Ikon armor and Prometheium blade can absorb energy from superman and use it to damage him, aside from the fuckton of batman level varietty he has.

Also, does a non prep Reed even have that big of an arsenal.

This was more so to my versatility point so how strong it is isn't the most important. DS's healing factor is still going to be a factor.

I have no reason to believe that? He's weaker, slower, and less intelligent. The street heavy hitters have a noticeable physical edge, which they won't have over DS (With the exception of spidey in strength).

You'd just be changing the topic, which I kind of feel has already happened.

We seem to be discussing more DS vs General street tiers instead of Deathstroke as the best assassin. We should be focusing our coversation with characters like Elektra, Sabertooth, Bullseye, and the other hired guns in Marvel.

Deathstroke's best gear is gonna be a complete hassle for Marvel street tiers.

His armor and sword being able to block/absorb an annoyed Superman is a crazy feat, and his tactical ability will allow him to galaxy brain most of them, with the debatble exception of BP, Spidey, and Gorgon (Genius Marvel street tiers which spring to mind for me).

Yeah Reed is probably a 5-B, dude has fought Doom 1v1 at least twice.

 

[Tomfer]

Yeah Reed is probably a 5-B, dude has fought Doom 1v1 at least twice.

I doubt they'll allow it, staff isn't ready for 5-B F4.

 

[Arcker123]

Yeah this would be OP against other Street tiers

Wolverine probably cooks Deathstroke tho

I'd agree. Even with a speed edge, he can't reliably put down Wolvie due to regen and his resistance to toxins, and wolverine just Mr swipes him with High 3-adamantium.

They're a mixed core, just like how Moon Knight is a mixture of urban and supernatural core.

Yeah but like, I don't even think they do it enough to be considered street tier.

It's like thinking of Iron man as street tier.

Inteligence in general? I agree. Combat-wise? You're completely wrong. Taskmaster has shown far better skill feats than Batman.

Stratagem, Tactics, Adaptability to a fight, all things DS can have an edge in without necessarily being more skilled.

I agree, that's on me. (Althought most of the street-gang is considered "assassin" just to show off they kill people, lmao)

Marvel's assassins are just a bunch of serial killers and psychos who get paid for being serial killers and psychos.

The idea of a consumate professional assassin is a lot rarer than in DC.

Agree, althought since the force-field is considered just optional equipment. Half of the danger is gone, unless we consider everything on the table?

True, but we can talk about with or without it if need be.

Assassins that come to mind are; Elektra, Sabertooth, Wolverine, Daken, Bullseye, Deadpool, Fantomex, Black Widow, Taskmaster, maaaaybe Punisher... and that's it?

Idk. Scalphunter, Gorgon (If you stretch it), Sable, Crossbones, Hand Fodder, X-23

 

[Eseseso]

I doubt they'll allow it, staff isn't ready for 5-B F4.

Uh you do know that Human Torch and Thing are already 5-B, right?

(Invisible Woman has 5-B with her forcefields).

 

[Antvasima]

Any particular reason of why Shang-Chi and Iron Fist aren't considered Genius in combat like Daredevil is?

You can add it to their pages if you wish.

 

[Tomfer]

 

[Tomfer]

They made a Chainsaw man reference in the new Deadpool (2024) comic.

 

[Tomfer]

Doctor Strange: "Well done, my friends (And Taskmaster)!"

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Btw, I am nearing completion of my marvel magic sandbox, only about 150 issues in 2 series left (plus some minor stuff mostly concerning Scarlet Witch's chaos magic and the Life Force), then I'll reorganize it into tabbers and clean up the formatting and whatnot.

Before I release that though, I will release a CRT based on this sandbox which focuses on character-specific stuff:

Marvel Magic Extra Stuff

vsbattles.fandom.com

It's also not done yet, but feel free to check it out.

(And just ignore the Enchantimatics stuff if you want, I'm still debating if and how it can be included in the Marvel Magic sandbox)

I don't know how reliable you'll find this, but Marvel has an official top ten list of most powerful magic users in Earth-616.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Taskmaster is canonically scared shitless of Moon Knight it’s honestly so funny.

 

[AcidSilver]

I don't know how reliable you'll find this, but Marvel has an official top ten list of most powerful magic users in Earth-616.

This list is really weird. Mephisto being so low, Loki not even being on the list, the Vishanti not even being mentioned; it's just a mess.

 

[Tomfer]

Taskmaster is canonically scared shitless of Moon Knight it’s honestly so funny.

They would, unironically, become one of the most OP Marvel duos if they ever worked together.

 

[Tomfer]

You can add it to their pages if you wish.

Added to Shang-Chi, but Iron Fist is locked. (I wonder why's that, he's not controversial)

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know how reliable you'll find this, but Marvel has an official top ten list of most powerful magic users in Earth-616.

That list seems roughly as illogically idiotic/taken out of thin air uninformed sheer bias as Marvel's editorial department claiming that Thor can only lift 100 tons...

Dormammu, Mephisto, and the Scarlet Witch should outclass the other entries in terms of raw power, and why are Doctor Voodoo and Magik even on the list?

Then again, at the end of the video there was a statement that this ranking was based on "influence and importance in comics", meaning social popularity among the uninformed judges.

 

[Antvasima]

Taskmaster is canonically scared shitless of Moon Knight it’s honestly so funny.

Taskmaster is played as a coward nowadays, and it isn't even handled in a logical manner. He was terrified of the Black Widow (who he should logically be considerably superior to when she doesn't use a symbiote) right after daring to fight King Hyperion, who he should be completely outmatched by, within the same story.

 

[Eseseso]

Good News, Everyone:

I have finally finished reading all "Doctor Strange" comics (as in ones that are specifically Doctor Strange-based, not including those like "Defenders" where he is just one of the side protagonists).

All 59 issues of "Strange Tales Vol 1" where Strange appears
All 25 issues of "Doctor Strange Vol. 1"
All 81 issues of "Doctor Strange Vol 2" (plus the 4 issues of Volume 3)
All 14 Strange-based issues of "Marvel Premiere"
All 26 issues of "Doctor Strange Vol. 4"
All 20 issues of "Doctor Strange Vol. 5"
All 90 issues of "Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme"
All 19 issues of "Strange Tales Vol 2"
All 14 issues of the still going "Doctor Strange Vol. 6".
All 4 issues of "Strange Volume 2" and all 10 issues of "Strange Vol. 3" (Yes I know Vol. 3 is Clea-based, but it counts).
All 12 issues of "Doctor Strange and the Sorcerers Supreme"
All 5 issues of "Doctor Strange: The Oath"
All 6 issues of "Dr. Strange" (2020)
All 5 issues of "The Death of Doctor Strange"
All 8 issues of "Doctor Strange / Punisher: Magic Bullets"


A total of 402 Doctor Strange issues read at minimum, I may have been lowballing a bit (because there were also a few annuals I wasn't including, and I didn't include Triumph and Torment).

And that's definitely not all of the Marvel issues I've read for this sandbox.

 

[Antvasima]

Good job then.

 

[Eseseso]

Good job then.

Thank you!

I'm still not done yet, asides from a few other smaller volumes I might check out (was considering checking out "Defenders", but that'd be 50-100 issues at minimum so I am probably gonna wait until my sandbox is accepted to see if I find anything there), I just need to add a few dozen scans to the sandbox, reorganize the page and clean it up, transfer it all to another sandbox page that will organize it into folders, release a character-specific CRT, and then I'll release the magic revisions sandbox.

 

[BLS]

Taskmaster is played as a coward nowadays, and it isn't even handled in a logical manner. He was terrified of the Black Widow (who he should logically be considerably superior to when she doesn't use a symbiote) right after daring to fight King Hyperion, who he should be completely outmatched by, within the same story.

Imo Taskmaster was the most interesting when he had that whole double life in Shield and the stuff about forgetting he has a loving wife. He was completely mishandled thereafter and is just a jobber now despite the fact that he should skill stomp a majority of his opponents.

Added to Shang-Chi, but Iron Fist is locked. (I wonder why's that, he's not controversial)

Shang-Chi is more skilled than Danny, maybe should add that if the opportunity arises.

 

[Antvasima]

Shang-Chi is more skilled than Danny, maybe should add that if the opportunity arises.

Christopher Priest (who is extremely familiar with both characters) wrote Danny as superior to the Black Panther (with his Vibranium suit and daggers) in combat, and his much greater raw power should logically give him an edge against Shang-Chi.

 

[Tomfer]

Shang-Chi is more skilled than Danny, maybe should add that if the opportunity arises.

While both me and the wiki agree that Shang-Chi is most skilled character in Marvel with martial arts, we need official scans saying that he's superior to Danny when we make such comparisons.

Christopher Priest wrote Danny as superior to the Black Panther (with his Vibranium suit and daggers) in combat, and his much greater raw power should logically give him an edge against Shang-Chi.

I mean, that's not saying much. Danny is top 2 most skilled character, of course he's superior than BP. His raw power, in the wiki, would definitely make him win if someone would ever make a Danny vs Shang-Chi match in here.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Hey, I'd like a bit of input on something. I just finished my profile for the Book of the Vishanti, and I wanted to know if the item's "intelligence" justifications are sufficient.

Nigh-Omniscient (The book's records of spells hold infinite variety[26] and endless pages,[27] and grow pages constantly to accommodate new writings.[2] It holds all the occult knowledge and arcane spells[25] in existence, being the greatest known source of non-evil magical knowledge[2] on earth, hosting the most powerful spells[6] known and every spell and counter-spell known to the Ancient One[28] alongside every counter-spell known to the mystic arts[8] in general)

 

[Antvasima]

I think that "Supergenius" seems more appropriate.

 

[LazerDim8000]

So, what's the deal with dylan brock? Meridius and god karnage both claim that, along with Venom, he's destined to become the ultimate symbiote, spelling doom for everyone including KIB's. He even ventures to the Un-Beyond after being killed, which should be impossible if you aren't one of the eddies. Or is Dylan technically also Eddie?

 

[BLS]

Or is Dylan technically also Eddie?

He's been established to be just his son (and Venom's sorta?).

 

[LazerDim8000]

He's been established to be just his son (and Venom's sorta?).

Not entirely accurate, I’d say his birth process was too disturbing and irregular to refer to him as a “son” and then the fact he went through the 5-answer ritual process in the un-beyond, something particularly designated for eddies suggest he could be some form of him.

 

[Excellence616]

Would this help upgrade Herald Characters?

Still waiting

 

[Excellence616]

Juggernaught resistences, and slight changes

My friend was getting too impatient for his account to be accepted so he asked me to make this thread. Heat Resistence (The human torches heat couldnt effect him. Unaffected by an exploding truck. The heat from a molten vat of steel left him unfazed.) -Uncanny X-Men #13 -Amazing Spider-Man...

vsbattles.com

 

[Eseseso]

Life Force: Wanda's retconning.

Hello people, just sharing a thought. In Wanda's page she has a key labeled "When amplified by Life Force" as if Life Force is an external power, but it isn't. Life Force is just another aspect of her Chaos Magic, and even in the comics it has been stated multiple times it was just her power...

vsbattles.com

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

I finally finished 10 profiles entirely! I have dozens to go, but it's definitely a start!

Just finished another 10 profiles!

 

[Eseseso]

Just finished another 10 profiles!

Excellent work!

Do you need to have Doctor Strange's page opened since the Amulet of Agamotto is part of his standard equipment?

Also, you could definitely give Dreamqueen HDE based on this description of her realm:

Liveworld is a higher dimension beyond the realms of humankind, and a Splinter Realm adjacent to Limbo/Otherplace, which is a pan-dimensional world that encompasses all of space-time and all planes of existence, transcending all realities with Earth-616 comprising an infinite number of such higher dimensions