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- #281
Yeah I agree likewise. It needs to be supreme but it shouldn't be Ein Sof stuff
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The Problems With Tier 0 (Staff Only)
- Thread starter Matthew_Schroeder
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- 32,359
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- Thread starter
- #285
Let me expand on this point. Not every High 1-A/0 needs to be like the Creator or the Majestic Presence to work. They can be unique, different, and even display some sort of personality.Sera EX said:
The One Above All, The Writer, Azathoth and the Law of Identity are all examples of supreme beings which don't follow the Ein Sof blah blah allegory.
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- #287
Also I definitely disagree that High 1-A/0 has to conform to the "many forms of a single entity" notion. It could be two equally opposing beings, or a trinity of sorts. As long as it is clear that the being or beings are some form of supreme entity.
Hell, God is said to have 700 names all of which can be seen as different aspects in some beliefs. Is God suddenly not omnipotent because he has 700 forms?
Hell, God is said to have 700 names all of which can be seen as different aspects in some beliefs. Is God suddenly not omnipotent because he has 700 forms?
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Tier 0: High Outerverse level
Characters that far exceed the requirements for Tier 1-A. Such characters will usually stand hierarchically above everything, including existence and nonexistence, possibility, causality, dualism and transdualism, the concepts of life and death, etcetera.
Take note that being infinitely superior to a regular 1-A character does not automatically make another character qualify for a Tier 0 rating. The ones that do qualify should be so much higher than baseline 1-A characters that it can not be estimated or comprehended from their perspectives. That is, to even be considered for Tier 0, a character must at the very least transcend baseline 1-A characters in the same manner that they exceed ones who are bound by dimensions.
It is also important to note that such characters are not omnipotent, as such a concept isn't well suited for our tiering system (See the Omnipotence page for further explanations). High outerversal characters, although immeasurably powerful, can display minor weaknesses and limitations, and be rivaled or even surpassed by other beings within their respective verses.
I suppose that we just have to wait for input from DarkLK and Azathoth regarding if and how we should improve the current draft then.
Characters that far exceed the requirements for Tier 1-A. Such characters will usually stand hierarchically above everything, including existence and nonexistence, possibility, causality, dualism and transdualism, the concepts of life and death, etcetera.
Take note that being infinitely superior to a regular 1-A character does not automatically make another character qualify for a Tier 0 rating. The ones that do qualify should be so much higher than baseline 1-A characters that it can not be estimated or comprehended from their perspectives. That is, to even be considered for Tier 0, a character must at the very least transcend baseline 1-A characters in the same manner that they exceed ones who are bound by dimensions.
It is also important to note that such characters are not omnipotent, as such a concept isn't well suited for our tiering system (See the Omnipotence page for further explanations). High outerversal characters, although immeasurably powerful, can display minor weaknesses and limitations, and be rivaled or even surpassed by other beings within their respective verses.
I suppose that we just have to wait for input from DarkLK and Azathoth regarding if and how we should improve the current draft then.
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@Azathoth/DarkLK I'd think that something like that belongs better within a "Almighty Beings" category or something like that, rather than being lumped in with AP despite having no relation
To be entirely fair, we already have a "Supreme Beings" category. Having an "Almighty Beings" category for something completely different will totally confuse users.
To be entirely fair, we already have a "Supreme Beings" category. Having an "Almighty Beings" category for something completely different will totally confuse users.
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- Thread starter
- #295
Don't worry Sera, I think you've been of great help in this thread and it's going very smoothly. Far more than I anticipated.
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Again, this is a staff only thread.
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Tier infinity isn't coming back nor are we accepting omnipotence for characters. That isn't even a debate.
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@Assaltwaffle
Absolute.
Absolute.
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@Chocolate
Because truly omnipotent characters do not exist. You can always go up in the "it's stronger" ladder, there is no upper limit
Take a "omnipotent" introduced in issue #45 of a comic.
Issue #62 introduces a character transcending them infinitely.
Issue #74 introduces another character transcending both.
You can continue forever.
Because truly omnipotent characters do not exist. You can always go up in the "it's stronger" ladder, there is no upper limit
Take a "omnipotent" introduced in issue #45 of a comic.
Issue #62 introduces a character transcending them infinitely.
Issue #74 introduces another character transcending both.
You can continue forever.
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Ha! Anyways, yeah, with all respect to other VS and indexing wikis, we will not take their definitions to the same meaning and implications as they do. We use far different interpretations than they allow.
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Okay, that's funny but enough derailing.
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Also, KingPin0422 has som concerns about the current draft.
He wants to add the following segment:
"More often than not, these characters are represented within fiction as either an artist/writer and their canvas, a God-like entity with both a transcendent and an immanent form, or simply a personal creator deity."
He also wants to take out the mention of tier 0 being above transduality, since he does not think that "this character is neither dual nor nondual" makes any sense.
In addition, he wants to re-add the "and their analogues at any level" part, due to that "The point of a tier 0 character is that their in-verse limitations are insignificant at best, save for any that they impose upon themselves. Ein Sof-level stuff is obviously not expected, but there's no reason for such a character to be capable of death if they don't want to die."
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2386788
He wants to add the following segment:
"More often than not, these characters are represented within fiction as either an artist/writer and their canvas, a God-like entity with both a transcendent and an immanent form, or simply a personal creator deity."
He also wants to take out the mention of tier 0 being above transduality, since he does not think that "this character is neither dual nor nondual" makes any sense.
In addition, he wants to re-add the "and their analogues at any level" part, due to that "The point of a tier 0 character is that their in-verse limitations are insignificant at best, save for any that they impose upon themselves. Ein Sof-level stuff is obviously not expected, but there's no reason for such a character to be capable of death if they don't want to die."
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2386788
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- Thread starter
- #309
I don't think this addition is necessary but I agree that "above transduality" should be removed.
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Tier 0: High Outerverse level
Characters that far exceed the requirements for Tier 1-A. Such characters will usually stand hierarchically above everything, including existence and nonexistence, possibility, causality, dualism, the concepts of life and death, etcetera.
Take note that being infinitely superior to a regular 1-A character does not automatically make another character qualify for a Tier 0 rating. The ones that do qualify should be so much higher than baseline 1-A characters that it can not be estimated or comprehended from their perspectives. That is, to even be considered for Tier 0, a character must at the very least transcend baseline 1-A characters in the same manner that they exceed ones who are bound by dimensions.
It is also important to note that such characters are not omnipotent, as such a concept isn't well suited for our tiering system (See the Omnipotence page for further explanations). High outerversal characters, although immeasurably powerful, can display minor weaknesses and limitations, and be rivaled or even surpassed by other beings within their respective verses.
Okay. I updated the draft.
Characters that far exceed the requirements for Tier 1-A. Such characters will usually stand hierarchically above everything, including existence and nonexistence, possibility, causality, dualism, the concepts of life and death, etcetera.
Take note that being infinitely superior to a regular 1-A character does not automatically make another character qualify for a Tier 0 rating. The ones that do qualify should be so much higher than baseline 1-A characters that it can not be estimated or comprehended from their perspectives. That is, to even be considered for Tier 0, a character must at the very least transcend baseline 1-A characters in the same manner that they exceed ones who are bound by dimensions.
It is also important to note that such characters are not omnipotent, as such a concept isn't well suited for our tiering system (See the Omnipotence page for further explanations). High outerversal characters, although immeasurably powerful, can display minor weaknesses and limitations, and be rivaled or even surpassed by other beings within their respective verses.
Okay. I updated the draft.
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yeah it looks good
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- Thread starter
- #316
We need to go through with this.
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I am waiting for Azathoth, Sera, or somebody else who properly understands DarkLK's suggestions for improvements, to apply them to my draft text. If that isn't possible, we will have to go with what we currently have in lack of better options, and then update the tier High 1-A and 0 pages.
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So, just so that I fully understand, you essentially just want the draft you've written out updated with Dark's suggestions, correct?
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