• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The "Omnipotence" description

Antvasima

Maintenance worker
He/Him
VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
165,218
72,247
As omnipotence cannot be proven, only inferred, is relative to the setting, and in its pure form is self-contradictory, I suggest that we remove this description from this wiki, strictly stick to the character ratings combined with "Reality Warping", and replace the category with "Supreme Beings" instead.

Here is what DarkLK said when I asked him about it (with some editing for structure):

"Omnipotence is a very complex topic. This is not something that can be proved by feats.

We prefer to believe that there can be only one Omnipotent in a fictional continuity. This is correct in my opinion. Because it does not make sense to multiply the immensity, the result does not change and any perspectives do not work at this level at all.

However, do you understand that a true Almighty can do anything? It can create someone stronger than itself. Or create several Almighty beings. And it will still remain Almighty. This presents a big problem for our logic and common sense.

Omnipotence as a concept is beyond 3-Dimensional and binary human logic. In fiction there are many characters that violate this logic, but in fact it is only an imitation, as because human words themselves are limited by our logic, any description will be limited.

Tier 0 characters should be completely qualitatively superior to any other characters that already violate logic. This gives us the right to assume that the logical paradoxes are not a problem for Tiers 0, which will be just above this by default. So Tiers 0 assumed as omnipotents, but no more.

If an author simply mentions the word "omnipotence", this is obviously not enough to justify that some character is tier 0. Because the understanding of different authors can be very different, and the author should make clear that the entity, which was present as an Almighty is totally qualitatively superior to everything else. Completely unlimited, not just to play on the same field, but with infinitely greater scale than other powerful beings from that fictional verse.

Quite often, the term "omnipotence" is applied to the of beings who just very powerful. Odin, Galactus, the Living Tribunal, Beatrice, Mercurius and many others. Even Juubi from Naruto was called this, but this is an obvious exaggeration.

I think that you should save the omnipotence article, but expand it.

The "Omnipotence" category should be replaced with "Supreme being" instead. Because some mid cosmic tiers from some fictions have better feats/powerscaling/explanation than some Supreme Beings from some other fictions."
 
Logic is actually everywhere among the things created by the human mind including any form of fiction regardless of attempts to violate it. Even something like "logic/beyond logic" option is still the paradigm of binary logic.
 
1- yes in fictions, the strongest characters in a fiction might be called omnis, even if they are planet lvl

2- the vs definition of omnis is clear- a being who is infinite dimensional in nature, and has no equal in its own verse

so we cant take statements like ' i am omnipotent' at face value, simply because omnipotence is the most abused word in fiction (or at least it is used in many cases such that it deviantes greatly from its absolute definition)
 
Well, given that it cannot be proven, and is completely unreliable and self-contradictory, does anybody else think that we should scrap the terms "omnipotent" and "nigh-omnipotent" altogether in character profiles, and only go by their rankings instead?
 
Well, I personally do not see a problem with Tiers 0 being "questionable omnipotent" and powerful 1-A being "nigh-omnipotent".
 
@DarkLK: Sounds about right with 1-A being "nigh-omnipotent" with T.0 being questionable omnipotence due in part that actual true omnipotence can't really be proven fully(on a very technical sense, really).
 
The Living Tribunal1 said:
how is it too weak, nothing can be beyod infinite dimensional
Nothing (like absolute void) can. And some other metaphysical non-dualistic concepts.
 
infiite dimesnional = all possible conepts with all possible chatracteristics, and there is no void outside it, as it IS the utlimate void
 
That is correct on logical tems but Omnis and most Nigh-Omnipontents trandsends the concept of logical. It's like this question "Can God create a stone so heavy that even he himself can't lift it" The answer to this is yes because logic doesn't necessarily apply to god. While we don't know how that's possible. For higher dimensional beings every thing which we perceive as impossible will be possible for them.

Another example would be that the Choushin from Tenchi Muyo are infinite dimensional but Kami Tenchi exceeds their power by various degrees of infinity.
 
Damn. I swear this omni stuff can get prety confusing. Sure i know Omni's and Nigh-Omni's are supposed to be above even Logic and Reason but yo real talk, that s*&t can get confusing as God's Hell y'all.
 
Another problem that I have with keeping the omnipotence and nigh-omnipotence descriptions is that they are so controversial. Many people want the character from their favourite fiction to have it, whereas ones from fictions that they don't care about should be disqualified despite fulfilling the same requirements.

Hence, we could avoid the controversy and the earlier described uncertain nature of the terms by removing them altogether. I think that most power ranking communities seem to have turned too focused with them, including making personal lists regarding which characters do and do not qualify. It still brings us back towards breeding antipathy between lots of different people, which I am not keen on helping to encourage.
 
Hmm. I would personaly subscrive to the belief that an Omnipotent can create a stone so heavy that even he himself can't lift it and then he can lift it anyway.

Would someone that can break logic like that on an infinitely dimensional scale be considered Omnipotent?
 
The Living Tribunal1 said:
infiite dimesnional = all possible conepts with all possible chatracteristics, and there is no void outside it, as it IS the utlimate void
It's just a concept of geometry. You can have infinite-dimensional space and destroy it, but non-dimensional super-void (or any other non-dimensional concept) is still remain.

For example here is some samurai who just ignores even the concept of dimensions, but he can not do anything to the gods of his verse because they are beyond this concept.

Dimensions i's just one of the perspectives. I can create a fiction with infinite-dimensional structure and and non-dimensional realm. And then I'll create a character that just would look at all of this just like we looks at fiction. Just another perspective.

Omnipotence > all of this. Infinity beyond perspectives.
 
@ Plye: Well most of the time Logic Manipulation is one of the very few powers which could be considered as Omnipotence or near omnipotence but it could also be that just as the user can manipulate logic he himself would have illogical restrictions.

But I've got a question if the omnipotence descreption is removed then would the omnipotence power br removed from the Powers and Abilities part of a profile.
 
Uh I meant would the omnipotence power from the Powers and Abilities part of a profile be replaced with something like limitless power if the omnipotence descreption is removed.
 
It would simply be replaced with "Reality warping", and people would be able to see how powerful it is from the tier ranking.
 
we have got tostop treating dimensions as physical things that can be destroyd

they are merely means of definition

heigh cannot be 'destroyed'

length cannot be 'destroyed'

an open dimesnional space, by definition IS a void
 
Void isn't space and there is no dimensions. There may be only imaginary dimensions.

Anything can be destroyed in fiction. And something can be beyond void (non-dualistic concepts).
 
Well, the contents of spatial and temporal dimensions can logically be destroyed, even if I agree that it is illogical that the directions themselves can be destroyed, if we are being realistic. However, as DarkLK said, fiction is recurrently extremely illogical.
 
directions themselves can be destroyed

Directions within absolute void are imaginary dimensions.

Technically, height, width, length, etc. are object properties. If there are no objects then there are no these properties.
 
-_-

so u tellin' me that beings can destroy the concept of height such that no object will ever have height

also you rdescrioption of destroying all 3d objects as destroying 3-D void makes the feat less impressive that destroying the the concept itself

that destruction of 3-D object is multi universal at best
 
I think that he is saying that if you destroy all objects with height, length, and width completely, then those directions turn irrelevant.
 
I never said "3-D void".

Concepts including dimension are only properties/phenomenon. They do not exist, if there is no corresponding objects.

Absolute timeless spaceless dimensionless void without such corresponding objects has no such properties/phenomenon/concepts. All these properties/phenomenon/concepts "exists" there only as imaginary possibilities, as potentials.

For Example Living Tribunal is conceptual embodiment of the multiverse. He dies = multiverse dies. The concept associated with the object. This does not mean that the creation will never ever have multiverse. Potential is preserved but it will remain invalid before someone will restore it again.

Until there is an omnipotent/supreme/transcendent being, the potential of any thing/concept (not only dimensions) remains in its mind, even there was no any objects. But imaginary potential =/= real thing/concept.
 
Back to the topic: Is it acceptable if I perform the suggested changes?
 
Okay. It might take a while until I get around to it though.
 
Take your time. You may be the most active admin here but even you need to slow down and do other things as well, AntVasima (not that it's a bad thing). :)
 
Back
Top