The Multiversal Undertale CRT

[Roachman40]

For how 2-B should be demonstrated on the profiles, im thinking something like this, gonna use chara's for an example.

'Multiverse level (Destroyed Undertale as a game and can recreate it. Undertale contains countless timelines created by resets, which causes an old timeline to become static and a new one to begin. While the exact number is unknown, the sheer number of resets performed by characters such as Flowey or Frisk, causing the timelines to branch into many, many, more new timelines, would easily put the number in the Multiversal range. Chara should scale to the Game World itself, which should be big enough to contain whatever finite amount of timelines produced from said resets)'

thoughts?

 

[Roachman40]

bump

 

[RethPo]

Okayyyyy it goes into detail but i think something with more links that explains it. Heres what i thought for both.

Asriel: Immensely more powerful; percieved as having infinite stats. Flowey with Chara's adopted view on the world wanted to perform the true reset, the former believed they were working together to do the same until Chara betrayed him, and with the seven souls, Asriel Dreemurr was going to do so by taking control of and "purging" the timeline and was in the process of "ending the world" and performing the reset as he powered up, which is normally used to describe the game in context. The true reset is described as erasing all memories and progress by Asriel, which includes the progress from timelines created from resetting, and has the same effect on the game as Chara's feat of rebooting it.

Chara: Destroyed Undertale as a game and its reality and planned to abandon the game to move onto the next game. Only recreated the game after the player gives up their soul. Undertales reality is stated by alphys to have other timelines according to her research, and the games fun values are hinted to be alternate timelines by goner kid, the former mechanic determining whether he appears or not. The act of resetting and reloading causes timelines to jump around and stop and start, having old timelines start and new ones begin. The sheer number of resets performed by flowey should make the games reality normally this size, who also stated he would reload a million times over Frisk. Chara should be capable of destroying the games world regardless of how many resets are performed.

 

[RethPo]

@DarkDragonMedeus Ik you agree with the revision and all. But do you think its currently safe to update any profiles? It is a pretty big change to how the series is taken here.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think we have enough support to apply it.

 

[Roachman40]

Very nice

If these four profiles can be unlocked so that the changes can be applied, it would be appreciated
Chara
Asriel
SOULS
Frisk

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

I guess I will agree to Multiversal Undertale

 

[RethPo]

Alright. If anything needs to be further discussed or explained it can be done later.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Probably should change god Asriel's speed to varies with reactive power level.

 

[RethPo]

Probably should change god Asriel's speed to varies with reactive power level.

Asriels determination doesnt exactly increase and decrease the same way frisks does so no, it should be fine at unknown

 

[Greatsage13th]

Asriels determination doesnt exactly increase and decrease the same way frisks does so no, it should be fine at unknown

I meant memory head's reactive power level

 

[Eficiente]

The reasons are wrong.

So, I was revising evidence for my reply, and I changed my mind entirely.

Not because of your guy's arguments, they were sprout of confirmation bias imho, and didn't do a great job at proving Multiversal Chara.

I, however, accept that "world" in Chara's context does mean multiverse and all the timelines in it, not due to Frisk not accessing other timelines, or because Toby used world in a certain way in an interview, no, these are silly.
But because, if you beat the Genocide Route twice in a row:

• ...
• But.
• You and I are not the same, are we?
• This SOUL resonates with a strange feeling.
• There is a reason you continue to recreate this world.
• There is a reason you continue to destroy it.
• You.
• You are wracked with a perverted sentimentality.
• Hmm.
• I cannot understand these feelings anymore.
• Despite this.
• I feel obligated to suggest.
• Should you choose to create this world once more.
• Another path would be better suited.
• Now, partner.
• Let us send this world back into the abyss.

[Erase]

• Right. You are a great partner.
• We'll be together forever, won't we?

[Do Not]

• No...?
• Hmm... This feeling you have.
• This is what I spoke of.
• Unfortunately, regarding this...
• YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE LONG AGO.

Basically, this conversation tells us, directly, that the term "World" is encompassing all the paths the player can choose, and said paths are within the world. Paths are timelines. Meaning Chara was saying the world as in, "The World of Undertale" rather than "The World we are in right now".

I now find myself in agreement with the CRT.

"this conversation tells us, directly, that the term "World" is encompassing all the paths the player can choose, and said paths are within the world"

Could be correct, but this isn't proof of meaning multiverse unless you just wanted that to be the case. As in,

• if it isn't correct, "path" in that context may just mean that the player should do other actions, not that "world" is the multiverse and they need to go in other timeline from within it.
• If it is correct and "World" is all paths, so what? That doesn't mean each of those are its own existing timeline somewhere within Undertale because 1 timeline can & has many paths, the players changes those paths with LOADs and Resets, changing the same 1 timeline.

The Sans dialogue I posted up there has him talk about "timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting... until suddenly, everything ends," which he follows up on by talking about resets. Based on that, the normal resets refer to "timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting," as everyone is taken out of one timeline and placed in another one, thus "stopping" the old timeline and "starting" a new one. But the old timelines clearly still exist somehow, as your choices in previous runs are remembered after a reset (the name you gave to Chara, whether you prefer cinnamon or butterscotch, whether or not you killed certain characters, etc.) Only a True Reset completely erases such memories, which would presumably be what Sans means when he says that "everything ends," as the reset now goes beyond a single timeline and affects all of them. (As a bonus, Chara erasing the world does seem similar to a true reset, with the only difference being that it's completely gone until Chara restores it manually. Case in point, after the first Genocide Ending, booting the game after subsequent Genocide Routes has it start over fresh, just like a True Reset.)

"But the old timelines clearly still exist somehow"

No, the reasons you gave try to apply made up mechanics to this that come out of nowhere. Look at this, by your logic, "your choices in previous runs are remembered after a reset (the name you gave to Chara, whether you prefer cinnamon or butterscotch, whether or not you killed certain characters, etc.)" has to mean that those actions need to be somewhere in other existing timelines, therefore they make sense, except that's made up, as if other timelines didn't exist and those choices were still remembered it makes just as much sense to say that they were remembered because those erared choices were made before. This very tiny, nonsensical memory-keeping type 1 Acausality characters have amounts to nothing because the reasoning behind it can be anything, even nothing.

 

[RethPo]

I was about to say that efis blog should be removed from the profiles as well, but if he still wants to defend his point, the thread should at least be open for now for any objections.

 

[Eseseso]

2-B Undertale is BACK!

Oh man, I'm getting 2015-2016 nostalgia!

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

very based

 

[Greatsage13th]

It's impossible for one timeline to have more than one path.

 

[Eficiente]

In this and any other verse, don't just assume others won't still want to defend their point and celebrate the changes of the CRT so quckly.

It's impossible for one timeline to have more than one path.

You did not read or understand my blog then, as I explain how so very well. I don't think I need to quote the same words I used there here.

 

[Eseseso]

Just wait until we get Low 1-C Undertale outside of just the Player

 

[Greatsage13th]

You did not read or understand my blog then, as I explain how so very well. I don't think I need to quote the same words I used there here.

I didn't see which part of your blog that proves it. You try fitting 2 paths inside a single game.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Basically you can't have a timeline where papyrus is simultaneously dead and alive without having another timeline.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Let’s gooo 2-B Undertale is back!

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

I got kinda lost.
What's the evidence of all potential timelines existing at the same time?

 

[Greatsage13th]

I got kinda lost.
What's the evidence of all potential timelines existing at the same time?

Flowey

 

[RethPo]

Basically you can't have a timeline where papyrus is simultaneously dead and alive without having another timeline.

Just to clarify. I think efis argument has always been that the timelines function as the same timeline being reversed and overwritten. Like back to the future or mortal kombat. So papyrus would be killed, then time gets undone and you then spare papyrus. There was another timeline where papyrus died, but now its been undone

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Flowey

As in, at the very least, link me to the comment on this thread that explains it the best.

 

[RethPo]

I got kinda lost.
What's the evidence of all potential timelines existing at the same time?

Mainly sans describing the act of timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting and the arguments supporting it for 2-B in the op.
For anything 2-C is supported by goner kid referencing worlds where he doesnt exist and i guess alphys statement on multiple timelines existing.

 

[Eficiente]

I didn't see which part of your blog that proves it. You try fitting 2 paths inside a single game.

Well at the start:

"In the Genocide route Sans mentions timelines in plural during his battle and it would be easy to believe that more than 1 exist around based on it, but that's not actually the case.

Sans refers to the same course of actions (in a timeline) getting reset back to a prior point in time and from there you taking other actions, thereby influencing other things/characters to have other actions too, thus "making other timeline". Let's put it in perspective; You can draw things, end up drawing a figure A, but then you can erase some of the things drawn and continue to draw something else, a figure B. Figures A and B are "different" but there's only 1 drawing now. A mention of figure A while figure B is around doesn't mean in context that firuge A still exists somewhere, that thing existed and now it doesn't."

This is what happens in Undertale, they were more than 2 paths.

Basically you can't have a timeline where papyrus is simultaneously dead and alive without having another timeline.

It comes out of nowhere that, why would anyone argue that 1 timeline has him simultaneously dead and alive? That's nonsensical. I cleary argue that he dies, time gets turned back, and this time you don't kill him.

So, as said before, you did not understand my blog, and that is a big issue when participating in this thread.

 

[Eseseso]

Let’s gooo 2-B Undertale is back!

Now all we need is 2-A scaling and somehow getting people other than the Player to scale to Low 1-C!

 

[Eficiente]

Mainly sans describing the act of timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting and the arguments supporting it for 2-B in the op.
For anything 2-C is supported by goner kid referencing worlds where he doesnt exist and i guess alphys statement on multiple timelines existing.

All that is covered in my blog, as my first comments here point out. The creator of the thread did not read it well when making the thread, and neither did notable users like DarkDragonMedeus and Saikou The Lewd King for that matter, as they didn't even read this part's whole point.

 

[Chariot190]

All that is covered in my blog, as my first comments here point out. The creator of the thread did not read it well when making the thread, and neither did notable users like DarkDragonMedeus and Saikou The Lewd King for that matter, as they didn't even read this part's whole point.

Weren't you just called out for talking like that Efi? Perhaps maybe they just don't agree with it?

 

[Eficiente]

There is nothing wrong with saying "The creator of the thread did not read it well when making the thread" when that is factual and even he liked a comment I made out it. I can safely affirm that they didn't read it beause they didn't bring it up at all as something they disagree with and the why of it, and just acted as if it didn't exist.

If anyone wants to talk me about anything personal they can do so to me in private, I didn't have more time to disagree with more about it in this Undertale thread.

 

[Chariot190]

I read your blog. I think you make some good points, I agree with some points. I also disagree with some of it, and think it's merely subjective at points instead of objective, or outweighed by contradictory evidence. The points I disagree with happen to be some that implicate a higher end rating (Not all, but some).
After factoring in all the evidence, I've concluded that 2-C should be safe, consistent, and the most likely interpretation based on the objective and subjective evidence.

This does not mean I didn't understand your blog, I got it, I just don't agree with everything within it, some yes, all, not quite, and think a bit of it is merely your interpretation instead of objective.

I get calling people out on actually not reading something, but Efi, that might not be the case here, now cease with that type of behavior, coming from me, that should be a red flag.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If blogs always shut down debates, CRTs wouldn't exist to begin with. People can perfectly still disagree with them despite having read those completely.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I get it that making a blog about a certain verse's cosmology may take a very long time and no one wants to see their hard work getting debunked in the future, but that really shouldn't mean that the blog would permanently represent the verse's cosmology especially when new things are brought up.

 

[Eficiente]

I read your blog. I think you make some good points, I agree with some points. I also disagree with some of it, and think it's merely subjective at points instead of objective, or outweighed by contradictory evidence. The points I disagree with happen to be some that implicate a higher end rating (Not all, but some).
After factoring in all the evidence, I've concluded that 2-C should be safe, consistent, and the most likely interpretation based on the objective and subjective evidence.

This does not mean I didn't understand your blog, I got it, I just don't agree with everything within it, some yes, all, not quite, and think a bit of it is merely your interpretation instead of objective.

I get calling people out on actually not reading something, but Efi, that might not be the case here, now cease with that type of behavior, coming from me, that should be a red flag.

I legit don't know what you mean, I point it out because I believe it, I belive it because I take that I have the needed reasons for it, and I say it because it helps the debate, from there on it's like other people have a nerve with what they perceive as arrogance. Why can't I say "The creator of the thread did not read it well when making the thread" when he liked a comment I made on it? In context I'm clearly helping out a user who was confused because this new information definitely comes in handly to know. My reasons for DarkDragonMedeus and Saikou The Lewd King were just as legit.

It's wonderful that you read the blog, I'm sure you can argue to me the points you disagree with, but dealing with users who, from what I can see, didn't undertand it well, is problematic, and I clearly need to have the liberty to express that I believe that they did not undertand it well.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

For the love of god change Undertale VSBATTLE page, there's still "Uni+" while UT hit tier 1 long ago.

 

[StrymULTRA]

@Originlima please stop. You're not helping.

 

[Eficiente]

I wouldn't just stop him until he can help, but tell him what's wrong with saying that. Though I'm tired myself.

 

[thetechmaster36]

I'm cool with this upgrade, I think that the reasons are solid.

Spoiler: Eficiente

Spoiler tagging this because I don't want to clog my post but regardless, Eficiente, quit your high horse position and saying stuff like "The creator of this thread didn't read it well", "They didn't read it at all", or "So, as said before, you did not understand my blog, and that is a big issue when participating in this thread". Especially with that last quote, you're essentially trying to gatekeep others from participating in the CRT because they "didn't understand your blog". You're acting like your blog is completely and objectively true. It's not. This thread wouldn't have been made in the first place if the OP didn't read it thoroughly or take issues with it at all.

If people disagree with your blog, then they disagree with it. Don't try and make up some dumb excuse like "They didn't read the blog" or "You clearly don't understand what it's saying", because that makes you look like an asshole and desperate.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

@Originlima please stop. You're not helping.

You didn't understood.

Power of the Verse​

​

​

Undertale is a decently strong verse, being far stronger than one would expect at first glance. This is due in part to many powerful abilities, such as Determination (which quite literally makes a more determined soul more powerful), Time Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, and more. Its God Tiers even reach Universal+ levels of power, capable of creating, resetting, and completely erasing the timeline, at will. The low to high tiers however sit firmly within Tier 9, with normal human to supersonic speed, but with unique hax allowing many of them to take on characters they normally shouldn't be able to.


Undertale got upgraded like month ago and hitted tier 1, even CRT was created to finally change that Uni+ in verse page but nooo, nooo, nooo...

Outdated information is fun!


And delete "ut misconceptions" from pages, just make a quick fix.