The Most Important JoJo CRT Ever in The History of Ever

[Tllmbrg]

Look how dirty the wiki is doing my boy Speedwagon so let's fix that

Attack Power and Durability Update:
So as far as I can tell we scale Jonathan even before Ripple as 8-C and Speedwagon has hurt him and (barely) took a kick from him to the face

Power and Abilities Update:
Weapon Mastery (Of his hat)
Stealth Mastery (Snuck into a hospital while injured)
Limited Healing (Has traveled across the world and learned how to treat frostbites)

Remove Martial Arts as I don't actually recall him having any showcases in that unless anyone else has scans for it

 

[Tllmbrg]

@Chariot190 Awaken JoJo Man

 

[Popted2]

i absolutely agree, thanks Tllmberg,


Speedwagon best waifu forever

 

[PsychoWarper]

I also agree with the changes, Speedwagon disrespect must cease.

 

[Torlikoff]

Agree with changes, this boy needs the respect.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Ayo, anyways gonna ping the (Pillar Man) staff @CrimsonStarFallen @DemonGodMitchAubin

 

[Emerald]

Agree, for the lord and savior Speedwagon

 

[SamanPatou]

I don't think we can scale his dura in this way, since he was knocked out, and we don't scale characters out of them just not being killed by something that still incapacitates them.

Skill-based healing is usually put as an intelligence feat, I've seen it being proposed as an actual power and rejected several times.

Everything else should be good.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I don't think we can scale his dura in this way, since he was knocked out, and we don't scale characters out of them just not being killed by something that still incapacitates them.

I mean it could be a peak durability feat, it was aimed at the head which is a weaker spot they say the body so if the shot was aimed there he could probably take it

Skill-based healing is usually put as an intelligence feat, I've seen it being proposed as an actual power and rejected several times.

I mean Zeppli's arm was supernaturally frozen so I imagine the way he healed him shouldn't have worked IRL

 

[Armorchompy]

Pretty sure Jonathan was holding back considering Speedwagon explicitly points out he could have killed him. And I'm not sure about him being 8-C pre-hamon to begin with.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Pretty sure Jonathan was holding back considering Speedwagon explicitly points out he could have killed him. And I'm not sure about him being 8-C pre-hamon to begin with.

I'm just going off the profile man, they mention him tackling Dio and how a Jonathan with nearly no Hamon left and dying could tank a 8-C explosion so
If you want a more meme thing he damaged Dio with a gun so

 

[SamanPatou]

I mean it could be a peak durability feat, it was aimed at the head which is a weaker spot they say the body so if the shot was aimed there he could probably take it

A lot of similar instances could be considered peak durability, but there many, many factors involved and such feats are usually discarded because it's impossible to determine how durable they really are with precision.

I mean Zeppli's arm was supernaturally frozen so I imagine the way he healed him shouldn't have worked IRL

That's just fiction being fiction, or him being extremely good at healing others.
The point is, Healing is given only if it comes from a power, a special medicine or something, just tending to others is listed as intelligence/skill to various degrees.

 

[Tllmbrg]

A lot of similar instances could be considered peak durability, but there many, many factors involved and such feats are usually discarded because it's impossible to determine how durable they really are with precision

Perhaps possibly then?

That's just fiction being fiction, or him being extremely good at healing others.
The point is, Healing is given only if it comes from a power, a special medicine or something, just tending to others is listed as intelligence/skill to various degrees.

I mean someone like Achilles gets it from using herbs so I don't see why not use this

 

[SamanPatou]

Perhaps possibly then?

Neither, because in the same way you could give high tiers to characters who survive its from enemies that are several tiers above them, and we can't make distinctions.

I mean someone like Achilles gets it from using herbs so I don't see why not use this

It's the other way around, actually, Achilles shouldn't have healing.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Welp ig for a JoJo expert to come and comment just in case
But aight no healing rip

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Not only did it take a bladed weapon to harm Jonathan (granted, nobody actually landed a non-bladed attack on JoJo in that fight), but Speedwagon also pointed out that Jonathan was holding back as to not kill him or his boys (Jonathan even confirms this), so I disagree with the upgrade

I also think it's a bit of a stretch to give Speedwagon Stealth Mastery of all things for walking through a hospital at night, when nobody's actively working there except Erina, who is putting all of her attention towards Jonathan (Speedwagon even makes note that Jonathan's room is the only one with a light)

Weapon Mastery is fine

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, Jonathan was holding back to scaling Speedwagon to the kick wouldn't be valid.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Not only did it take a bladed weapon to harm Jonathan (granted, nobody actually landed a non-bladed attack on JoJo in that fight), but Speedwagon also pointed out that Jonathan was holding back as to not kill him or his boys (Jonathan even confirms this), so I disagree with the upgrade

That only disproves durability for Speedwagon, he could still be 8-C AP wise
or if you really feel like crediting the bladed weapon then 9-B physically and 8-C with his hat

I also think it's a bit of a stretch to give Speedwagon Stealth Mastery of all things for walking through a hospital at night, when nobody's actively working there except Erina, who is putting all of her attention towards Jonathan (Speedwagon even makes note that Jonathan's room is the only one with a light)

Eh fair I suppose, also could him lifting his body with the cane thing be above athletic human?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I actually wouldn't mind if Speedwagon's hat was rated higher than him

Speedwagon lifting himself with a cane would probably be above Athletic Human, yeah. Not too sure though

 

[Tllmbrg]

I actually wouldn't mind if Speedwagon's hat was rated higher than him

Sure

Speedwagon lifting himself with a cane would probably be above Athletic Human, yeah. Not too sure though

Maybe it can be calced by Damage, if not Superhuman should work

 

[Chariot190]

@Chariot190 Awaken JoJo Man

S̵o̵r̵r̵y̵ ̵I̵ ̵w̵a̵s̵ ̵u̵p̵ ̵a̵l̵l̵ ̵n̵i̵g̵h̵t̵,̵ ̵j̵u̵s̵t̵ ̵w̵o̵k̵e̵ ̵u̵p̵.̵

8-C Speedwagon

While that would be dangerously based, as others have said, Jonathan held back, it's actually why Speedwagon has a heel turn, he was kicked by him but he could tell, at just a glance, that if Jonathan kicked him seriously, he'd at the very least have been ****** up and his face like caved in, and same with his pals, but yet they were mostly fine, that tipped Speedwagon off to Jonathan being a true gentleman as from appearance alone he knew that if he was serious, they'd be ****** and so decided to help him. Speedwagon wouldn't scale to Jonathan, everyone in that scene is like "yo he held back".

Weapon Mastery.

Weapon mastery is good, he's shown good skill with that hat.

Martial Arts.

Martial arts he doesn't have, but he's still (presumably) decently skilled given where he hangs out, should be reworded to something like "Proficient hand to hand combatant" or something.

Stealth.

Stealth mastery is aight I guess, maybe not mastery, he ain't no Batman (or maybe I'm being anal and it's good enough to count, if others are ok with it then alright), but the feat is legit at least, may as well mention it on the profile.

LS.

That can be calced easy.

Pre-Hamon 8-C.

As for the pre-hamon Jonathan being 8-C. But I don't think we actually consider Jonathan pre-Hamon to be 8-C (he's definitely at least 9-B tho, hell even before anything bad actually happened, Jonathan could pick Dio up in one hand and yeet his ass so hard he flew like ten feet, into a railing, and blew the railing out too, but he definitely gets way, way stronger while training, even without hamon the dude's still training his body. The keys we use in particular are Pre Deep Pass and Post, so basically key 1 is before Tarkus and Will die, key 2 is after when he gets Will's life energy and rips Tarkus a new one).

He has a feat that's 8-C he survived without Hamon, yeah, but that's still after he trained and roided out, the reason why it scales to pre-deep pass is actually because of Wang (the chinese medicinal merchant) in the manga (anime cut this out), Wang engaged Jonathan 1 week into his training, got his ass kicked and fled back to Dio (He told Dio about Hamon, which is why Dio actually learns the freezing technique to counter Hamon, Wang alerts him of its existence and decides to prep, the anime removes this tho as mentioned). Then on the boat Wang could kick a hamonless Jonathan hard enough to splatter his hand, despite being demonstrably not shit to training (week 1) Jonathan.
Ergo, Training Jonathan (aka part of key 1) > Wang > Hamonless Post-Deep Pass. Hence the scaling to those on Wang's level or above to the feat (So Jack, Tarkus, Bruford, etc).

Healing.

Healing is weird, he didn't really heal Zep, he moreso just used his body heat (which was calced at uh, 9-B iirc, though they didn't factor in time) to help unthaw Zep's arm and allow his blood to flow again, from there Zep himself could heal it with Hamon, he even says himself once he gets Hamon back he could ease the pain of the wounds and in another line implied he could heal them (Which I assume he did given his arm doesn't have huge chunks of peeled skin anymore).
This of course took almost the whole time Jonathan was fighting Bruford, so while Dio's freezing is supernatural (Technically he's vaporizing his own heat, drawing the heat of others out, and flash freezing them as he sucks all the heat from their body making them brittle ice, there's a bit of a pseudo science aspect to it at least).
So idk, he didn't really heal him, he just kinda warmed him up for like 5 minutes till his blood could flow again through the arm.

Meme calc.

Not my calc, stealing most of it. Zeppeli (probably) weights 77.92 kg, while an arm is 6.5% of a person's total weight.
6.5% of 77.92 kg is 5.0648 kg.
The melting heat of ice is 334 joules/gram.
Energy = [Mass] * [Latent] = 5.0648 kg * 334 joules/gram = 1691643.2 joules (Wall level).
Feat took like 5 minutes (so divide by the amount of seconds, aka 300) using anime timeframe but could be shorter because > anime time frame, that's 5638.8106666666666667 joules, thus Speedwagon's body temp and smoking hot abs would be passively 9-C

---

Quick summary.
8-C is a no go, Jonathan held back, even if he did, the hamonless Jonathan feat has a bit more complex scaling than that anyway.

Stealth is fine, wouldn't say mastery tho.

Healing is weird, neutral, in that I don't think it's "healing", but if others say it is and it qualifies by wiki standards then yeah sure, feat happened G̵i̵v̵e̵ ̵S̵p̵e̵e̵d̵w̵a̵g̵o̵n̵ ̵t̵e̵m̵p̵ ̵m̵a̵n̵i̵p̵ ̵f̵o̵r̵ ̵b̵e̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵s̵o̵ ̵h̵o̵t̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵i̵c̵e̵ ̵f̵u̵c̵k̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵e̵v̵a̵p̵o̵r̵a̵t̵e̵s̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵c̵o̵n̵t̵a̵c̵t̵ ̵w̵i̵t̵h̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵a̵b̵s̵.̵

Martial Arts I'd just reword to proficient combatant or something, something like Josuk8.

A̵l̵s̵o̵ ̵a̵ ̵v̵e̵r̵y̵ ̵r̵o̵u̵g̵h̵ ̵h̵a̵l̵f̵ ̵d̵o̵n̵e̵ ̵c̵a̵l̵c̵ ̵t̵e̵l̵l̵s̵ ̵m̵e̵ ̵S̵p̵e̵e̵d̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵p̵a̵s̵s̵i̵v̵e̵l̵y̵ ̵9̵-̵C̵.̵

 

[Tllmbrg]

Welp ig no tier upgrade which is sad

Jonathan could pick Dio up in one hand and yeet his ass so hard he flew like ten feet, into a railing, and blew the railing out too

You know this makes me wonder, why don’t we have pre Hamon key for Jonathan?
This can be calculated for him and iirc even before Hamon training he trained in boxing so that version definitely deserves a Key, same thing for Part 1 Dio before the vampire thing


Anyways seems that outside calcing Speedwagon’s LS everything was discussed right?

 

[Chariot190]

Was gonna calc that anyway for the LS CRT (which will happen one day lads I promise), not the best feat, but it's still well within superhuman, and Pre-Deep Pass Jonathan doesn't have many LS feats to scale off (he broke free of Bruford's hair, which has a high tensile strength, which has a 11 ton feat itself but that's gonna be fucky to scale given more hair = higher LS, and thus it doesn't scale 1:1) but that's it for notable LS feats for him, thus while a Pre-Hamon feat, it might be needed for his key). Don't have an exact number on it, but if I had to guess, Class 1-5? Tossing around 80-95kg hard enough to frag wood would definitely have some hefty force behind it. But I'm only guessing at the moment. Pre-Hamon Jonathan does have like a 800kg feat I did awhile back, haven't published it yet but it's straightforward, it's just laying around a sticky but I could do so (Him jumping off the spear to grab Dio, when they were falling, the distance leapt + his weight gave a Peak Human/Class 1 yield) but it ain't gonna be as good as him yeeting Dio's dumbass so might not bother, though it would be support so maybe?

We could give him a pre-Hamon key if ya want, probably 9-B (that feat, kicking dudes quite a distance, taking a heavy spear and swinging it so hard he blows zombie heads off, as well as knocking down walls (kinda the obvious one), he'd have acrobatics for doing flips, among other things as well, such as the aforementioned rookie boxing).
I could sandbox one and send it to you once done (If I do that, I may as well add references and shit to everything and do some clean up, so it might take a bit but it'd be pretty straightfoward for that and that alone).

Dio on the other hand I'm not so sure, he already has 3 keys, a 4th might be pushing it, might just serve as clutter.

 

[Tllmbrg]

We could give him a pre-Hamon key if ya want, probably 9-B (that feat, kicking dudes quite a distance, taking a heavy spear and swinging it so hard he blows zombie heads off, as well as knocking down walls (kinda the obvious one), he'd have acrobatics for doing flips, among other things as well, such as the aforementioned rookie boxing).
I could sandbox one and send it to you once done (If I do that, I may as well add references and shit to everything and do some clean up, so it might take a bit but it'd be pretty straightfoward for that and that alone).

Seems like a good idea
Also 4 Keys is not a lot, we have pages like Ghoul so

 

[StekFence]

(which was calced at uh, 9-B iirc,

9-B via Abs

 

[Tllmbrg]

Bump lol
Iirc we agreed on adding weapon mastery and removing Martial Arts
Plus add pre Vampire and pre Hamon Keys for Dio and Jonathan

 

[Tllmbrg]

Bump

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump lol
Iirc we agreed on adding weapon mastery and removing Martial Arts
Plus add pre Vampire and pre Hamon Keys for Dio and Jonathan

Makes sense, you just need to figure out their stats.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Didn't speedwagon took a hit from a zomb arm trowed by dio and could hurt and kill his zombies?

 

[Chariot190]

He did but he was merely grazed and it still shattered his arm and broke ribs, it's a 9-B feat.
And he smashed one zombie's skull in with a hammer, another 9-B feat, both should be on the profile already.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Hum... I trough dio zombies were strongher

 

[Tllmbrg]

I at least applied the P&A change, I'll let Chariot handle the Key additions
(yes 'm lazy, Chariot will deal with it)