Dust_Collector
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- #121
For the sage scaling I'm pretty sure there's enough support for it to be applied, it's just everything else hasn't been discussed much
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The Legend of Zelda: Yet Another Revision
- Thread starter Dust_Collector
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So the Master Sword on it's own won't scale to Zant and Ganondorf?
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #123
No it won't
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A little off topic, but looking at the profiles again, shouldn't endgame LTTP Link scale to endgame ALTTP Ganon?
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Do we have a note prepared addressing this scaling chain?
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #126
Yeah he just needs an extra key for his endgame self
For the Master Sword? Don't need one
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I take it that Ganondorf and Zant are no longer gonna be 6-A?
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #128
No they're remaining as there are, dunno what makes you think they're being downgraded given that the High 6-A ratings haven't been mentioned at all outside of the Master Sword having one of it's keys removed (Although Zant isn't even rated as High 6-A in the first place so eh)
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Sorry. I'm just a bit confused on the Master Sword scaling to Ganon with Triforce of Power. Was the sword stabbing him in Twilight Princess invalid?
Dust_Collector
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- #130
The Master Sword by itself has no reason to scale to Ganon with the Triforce of Power, in fact we already don't scale it to him it's only got a High 6-A rating at the moment because we currently assume it has a special link to the Triforce of Courage where the two of them together automatically reach High 6-A (Which Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker show isn't the case given the former requires Link to get stronger before he confronts Ganondorf and the latter gets stomped by Ganondorf even when he's holding back to not kill Link). It stabbing him in Twilight Princess is because Link is High 6-A during that fight, the Master Sword by itself just upscales from the Four Sword.
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Something about Ganon not having the Full Triforce in himself during the final battle was the reason he doesn't anymore.
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So would the Master Sword have an At least X, varies/higher stat based on the user?
Since Link is High 6-A in Endgame TP, the MS would upscale in AP/Durability to match the user and match the Sword fight with Ganondorf with TF of Power?
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Ah. Found the note at the bottom profile regarding the sealing war.
Dust_Collector
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- #134
Pretty much
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Alright.
- Changing the Imprisoned's tier from 7-C to "Varies, 8-C to 6-C"
- What justification is used for the Building level low end?
- Making Calamity Ganon and all that scale High 6-C
- Seems okay
- Possibly making Dark Beast Ganon the same level as normal Beast Ganon who would be 190 gigatons due to sage scaling
- Also fine.
- Scaling the Skyward characters to the Breath of the Wild characters
- I suppose.
- Altering some justifications for the Master Sword and Light Force
- Seems okay.
- Lokomo Sword
- Does any form of the Master Sword scale lore-wise above the Lokomo Sword?
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Lokomo Sword
- It was once used by the Spirits of Good, who used it to defeat many evil creatures during their lifetime.
- Considering lower-level deities like Hylia made it, it should be comparable to a Base Goddess Sword, no? The Upgraded Goddess Swords tempered with the Sacred Flames of the Golden Goddesses should be even higher, no?
- "All the while, Link continued with his task of tempering the Goddess Sword in the Sacred Flames of the Golden Goddesses. Imbued with the immense, sacred power of the Force, the Goddess Sword was transformed into the Master Sword."
- "Force: The sacred power the gods gave to the world. It's the breath of life itself."
- "The flames of Farore have improved your sword, making it longer and sharp enough to do twice as much damage!"
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #137
Building level is just the standard power of bombs which just about anyone of note scales to, Skyward Sword Link himself deals with and uses bombs several times before the first fight with the Imprisoned and it's the best we got for it by that point in the game before it starts regaining more power.
Nothing, including the Master Sword, is ever compared to the Lokomo Sword so we don't really have a whole lot to work with to 100% say it scales above it on it's own (Although this CRT has taken so long we've gotten to the point that there's been discussions about how the True Master Sword might end up being tier 5 soon anyway but that's not relevant here so I'll leave it at that)
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #138
Oh BTW regarding this scaling specifically, spoilers for Tears of the Kingdom, but I think scaling Dark Beast Ganon to normal Beast Ganon isn't viable anymore because:
Calamity Ganon and Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf are not the same Ganondorf from the previous games, so Dark Beast Ganon can't be considered just a Malice version of normal beast Ganon since they're two diffent people so he'd just upscale from his Weakened Calamity Ganon form
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Yeah, I had only barely played it, and the trailers for Tears of the Kingdom kind of really hinted that, but Calamity Ganon is really just an avatar of an avatar or a similar concept to the various Phantom Ganons. The Blood Moon event also still exists in that game, but I don't know yet if we are given more details about it. Only 40+ hours in and only completed one main dungeon so far.
Dust_Collector
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- #140
Yeah Tears of the Kingdom makes it very clear that this is a new Ganondorf and Calamity Ganon is basically just a super advanced Phantom Ganon. For the blood moon event we're planning on using it to get back the tier 5 ratings but that's still a while away ans still needs calcs
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Would the hierarchy difference between the Golden Gods and the Spirits of Good justify a "possibly" stat?
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Regarding Tears of the Kingdom stuff, let's hold off until 2-ish weeks after the initial release.
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #143
We don't really know what the hierarchy is since all the lore in Spirit Tracks is pretty self contained and never really compared to anything, not sure if we have enough to justify even a possibly stat.
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Well, aside from that, is there anything else to go over before the revisions can be made?
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #145
No I think that's everything finally covered. Although since we have no profiles for any of the sages (Although I can make one for Rauru today or tomorrow) I think we might need something to help make it clear how the sage scaling works on the profiles affected by it, like a blog post or something I dunno.
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I missed out on this whenever it was published, can I get a tdlr pleease
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #147
I missed out on this whenever it was published, can I get a tdlr pleease
- Funny Sage scaling from Ocarina of Time makes several characters High 6-C
- Master Sword gets a key removed (It's High 6-A one) and some tiering changes for it's weaker forms
- Light force gets a justification removed but remains the same outside of that
- Calamity Ganon becomes High 6-C due to being 4 times stronger than the blights
until we do the blood moon stuff and make him tier 5 but shhh
- Skyward Sword top tiers scale to Calamity Ganon and BOTW Link since Hylia empowers Link throughout the game
- Imprisoned goes from 7-C to Varies, 8-C to 6-C
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By chance will any of my botw/totk affect the scaling of skyward sword and the other stuff in this thread(aside from the bloodmoon stuff)
Because I do have my first feat compilation and LS feat compilation calculated
Because I do have my first feat compilation and LS feat compilation calculated
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #149
Maybe? Haven't really looked into botw/skyward sword scaling outside of AP scaling from Link/Calamity Ganon
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That's fine That's all I've been doing since those are the zelda games I've been responsible for well I haven't done skyward yet but I'm working on botw/totk shit to fill in the lack of calcs for the verse
Ik we're planning on giving keys to botw/totk Link since he ain't high 6-C out the gate, this is moreso for his early game to mid game scaling shit but it still affects skyward stuff if he scales from it
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #151
Yeah start of botw Link and early game totk link ain't tier 6
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Then yup this stuff directly affects the scaling for that stuff, would we rather tackle that here or do that for all the TOTK stuff
I also have Zelda 2 calculations and I'm gonna be calculating Zelda 1 feats, its nothing crazy just support feats like a 8-B hammer feat in zelda 2 or like Links speed in zelda 1
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #153
I think we should tackle that stuff when we do all the TOTK stuff as well, better to do all that together.
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Okay then I'll leave that for then and by that point I'll probably have like 4 or 5 calc compilation blogs ready just for those two games
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I mean the spirits of good should definetely be below Hylia.
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,833
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- #156
Well, yeah they should but unfortunately without anything concrete we can't do any scaling between them based on just thinking they shouldn't scale above what Hylia and the Master Sword currently is
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We actually have a rule about waiting a notable period of time before making content revisions regarding works too recent. Especially if the it is like really popular and for a video game that's like 200+ hour long, I'd say it goes especially true for them. I believe a game as big, grand, and popular as Tears of the Kingdom was like 2 or 3 months before making a content revision that spoils it.
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1 month give or take with spoiler tags on the profiles GGs
Ped2018
He/Him- 5,149
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I mean, if you guys can actually gather all the information and get everything ready in 1 month...
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I literally already have 3 calc blogs ready to go and the most major feats caluclated and the new feats for the tier changes and upgrades I'm just doing the midgame feats now but even then we already have all of the scaling worked out
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