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The Legend of Zelda: Major Revision - Part I

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TriforcePower1 said:
Don't see=/=It doesn't happen. If we have statements that Majora warped more than the 4 regions, we assume it actually did.

Not really actually. Otherwise everyone would be freaked out by the fact that a new moon appeared with a face, whereas people often say stuff like "the moon, it has something strange today... is it a bit closer than yesterday?". The fact that the moon tear is a renowned jewel also implies the moon had a face long before Skull Kid had MM. I'm currently replaying MM so I remember this very well.
Click to expand...
He stated that Majora reality warping a "more-than-planetary scale" was directly shown in-game, and I explained that it wasn't.


Please explain to me how, if the Moon was not a creation by Majora, that the Moon's Tear could even make it to the planet? The moon is in space, and the tear would be too - the only reason it could ever fall to the planet is if the moon was in Termina's atmosphere.

And that is the thing, you are acting on the assumption that Majora's Moon started falling the minute that Link arrived in Termina.

If the moon was being pulled down, then its position in Termina's atmosphere and not in Space shows that the moon had been falling for quite some time - and during that time, the moon could have easily released another Moon's Tear and the situation where Majora tried taking it from the scientist at the observatory could have happened before Link arrived in Termina - just like with Kafei being turned into a child.

This coaligns with the original idea which was going to have the timelimit in the game be seven days instead of three as well. So nothing implies that the moon had a face for that long of a time.

And again, with the fact that the moon has a psychedelic pocket dimension and disappeared completely when Majora was killed - instead of moving backward (upward?) into space where it would belong - it is implied that the moon is a creation of Majora - and not one that he pulled down from Spcae.
 
I'm just telling you what happens in the game.

The Happy Mask Salesman seems to imply that MM has been stolen from him for not too much time when you meet him, and most of what Majora does is explicitly stated to have happened only some time before Link arrived. The people of Termina also start to realize the moon is falling only the first day, and many others don't realize it till the second or even the third day, which imply that the moon hasn't been falling for long.

The Deku businessman remarks that the Moon Tear is a relatively famous jewel, and we can also see one in the observatory. No one, and I say it, NO ONE in the entire Termina ever comments about the moon having a face, which means that it's completely natural for them.

Yes, the moon disappears once you defeat Majora's Mask. Is it because it created the moon before it even got sealed away? Maybe the moon just came back to orbit? We don't know, and that's honestly not the point.

We have an explicit statement about Majora messing up and warping an Universe. That's all that's needed for this upgrade. This debate about the moon has been useless.
 
And:

  • "Well...could you see it? It already may be impossible to stop its descent... All I can do is accept what the cosmos has designed to be the destiny for me and this planet.]"
Three direct quotes are much more solid than raw speculation on why the plot of the game doesn't roll out in a super-specific manner.

And the guidebook reinforcing the exact same just hammers this point home.
 
I think Warren's making sense here, sorry about this.
 
To be honest, I am in agreement with the proposed upgrades here, unless actually reasonable counter-arguments surge (which I haven't seen in either of those Termina threads). This is far more straightforward than the "Light World = Universe = Dark World" stuff from the Triforce, which I, honestly, agree to be stretchy.

If a guidebook that is considered canon to the game by official Nintendo sources states multiple times that Majora reality warped the entirety of the parallel universe of Termina, the game doesn't contradict it and portrays something more than planetary taking place with his warping, as shown by the Tier 4 world he warps, then there is no reason to doubt it other than "it isn't because I said so!"

And Majora only appears in one game, so it has no significant anti-feats that make this an outlier. The Triforce also has no antifeats. I am even inclined to entertain this being an outlier for Link, specifically, if that's supposed to be the issue people have.

I bet my admin position that if the OP removed Link from the list of people who would scale, half of the disagreements wouldn't be there.
 
After mulling it over a bit I've decided I'm also in agreement with the upgrade. Also super curious about this being part 1 of a major revision.
 
Also, the moon wasn't created by Skull Kid. It was just warped into that thing we see. This is stated in the game.
 
If Majora was upgraded, it would also scale to Fierce Deity Link and in turn upgrade Composite Link just a heads up. And I never entirely agreed or disagreed with this proposal, but much of the staff here are indeed tired of repeated Zelda threads that go in circles.

Anyway, I'm fine with the upgrades now for Majora, Fierce Deity Link, everyone who uses the Complete Triforce, and those above Complete Triforce. Basically Majora, Link (Majora's Mask), The Triforce, Ganondorf, Link (Skyward Sword), Link (A Link to the Past), and Link (Composite) would all scale from it. With note that some in mind are for specific keys.
 
Hyrule Warriors is a different continuity though as it's a non-canon spin off. I thought it was agreed to have characters in the game scale from the feats shown in that game rather than from the main series.
 
I'm pretty sure Hyrule Warriors is like Eyes of Heaven in the sense that it's not canon to the main series but the events of the main series are canon to it. Haven't touched the game in a while so I might be misrembering.
 
I see, I suppose it's fine then. I guess the Triforce users in Hyrule Warriors and Link with True Master Sword would also be updated.
 
Just to note, the first 3-A feat in the game is from the Mask without a host.
 
All three forms where fought by Link wearing Fierce Deity Mask in canon, but it won't scale to Base Link or any of the Temple bosses for obvious reasons. It also wouldn't scale to the Four Giants. It was basically done by the first phase of the Majora boss fight.
 
I've been to the other threads, remember the arguments, and personally I don't see the problem with this particular upgrade attempt. Everyone mentioning the fact it shouldn't be discussed... We've ignored such for far more controversial upgrades than this (AHEM Kratos)... So that shouldn't be the "end debate" notion. It seems far more direct with the quotes about it being a parallel world than previously noted.
 
Wasn't the argument in the previous threads that the creator of the books was making creative libraries and admitted it?
 
So, for the No-Host key:

Universe level (Warped and corrupted the entire universe of Termina)

And for the FP Mask (Majora's Wrath)

Universe level (Much more powerful than earlier. Created a universe and sustained it, with it collapsing upon his defeat)

Is this acceptable?
 
But just to ask, wouldn't explicit mentions of space-time make this a Low 2-C feat, not a 3-A one? Or a Dante-type deal where they become "At least 3-A, possible Low 2-C"?
 
It is safer to assume it to be a 3-A feat, given context from the game.
 
Bump. I agree with Crimson and Kep. While it is a far safer bet to use 3-A... I won't doubt Low 2-C isn't out of the question. We should just use 3-A first... Then make a thread for the Low 2-C aspect sometime later.
 
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