The last DMC thread

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Bamp

 

[Vietthai96]

Still, i think being a void only now is still a very high degree of incorporeal

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Still, i think being a void only now is still a very high degree of incorporeal

There is also the information type 2 in the OP that needs evaluation

 

[Vietthai96]

Information type 2 is fine, to me at least.

Hmm, now that we talk about it, so Void Mundus can be NEP Nature 1, Aspect 3 & 4 then, he lack a name which also lack information and concept, that how i see it

 

[Theglassman12]

He doesn't lack a name though, that's never once stated in the novels which is kind of important given demon powers derive from their names

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I already explained why he doesn't have a name nor a soul.

Also there are demons without names with power

 

[Ibrahem]

the nobodies, vergil (corrupted one at the beginning of 5) and urizen don't have a name yet they clearly have powers
demons not having names isn't new.
also, mundus being called a "void" aka nothingness in a verse where everyone can sense souls, minds, names etc clearly means he's not just void in the physical sense, and the soul is what makes the demon's existence alongside everything that's housed within it. so "void" in dmc inheritly means the lack of all those things.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Tony_di_bugalu and they don't lack a physical form or lose their existence as a result, meaning NEP wouldn't even qualify for them

@Ibrahem Urizen was literally pumped with human blood the entire time so he's not out of juice, also when exactly did he lack a name cause last time I checked Vergil just split his demonic and human side, not remove their names. Nobodies still have a physical form despite losing their names (which btw I'd love to see some scans on them lacking names), so they wouldn't even count for NEP. Again not sensing others doesn't mean nonexistence, you'd need explicit statements for that being the case.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

@Tony_di_bugalu and they don't lack a physical form or lose their existence as a result, meaning NEP wouldn't even qualify for them

My point flew over your head.

Nobodies are demons without a concept or the very source of Demon power yet they have some form of power. Mundus being a void without name and having power isn't a problem.

@Ibrahem Urizen was literally pumped with human blood the entire time so he's not out of juice, also when exactly did he lack a name cause last time I checked Vergil just split his demonic and human side, not remove their names. Nobodies still have a physical form despite losing their names (which btw I'd love to see some scans on them lacking names), so they wouldn't even count for NEP. Again not sensing others doesn't mean nonexistence, you'd need explicit statements for that being the case.

Vergil is the sum of his humanity and demonic side. Those 2 factors by themselves are unknown stuff more over Yamato isn't only some physical shit, it goes deeper and beyond what just some fisionism would do.

They are called Nobodies because they don't have a name

 

[Theglassman12]

Do you have scans of Void Mundus lacking a name because you need scans, not assumptions for this, nobodies have scans for them lacking names, Void Mundus doesn't.

Yeah, he separated his human and demon side, that doesn't mean be got rid of their names, especially Urizen since he has a name already.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Do you have scans of Void Mundus lacking a name because you need scans, not assumptions for this, nobodies have scans for them lacking names, Void Mundus doesn't.

I already explained my reasons

Yeah, he separated his human and demon side, that doesn't mean be got rid of their names, especially Urizen since he has a name already.

Vergil is Vergil, Yamato took Vergil and created 2 beings that aren't Vergil. We even have a page for Yamato for all the bs it can do.

There are even examples as Nero and the savior who became a single existence and yet Yamato negated that.

I am without a name. I am power, absolute.

 

[Theglassman12]

The reasons are too vague for it to imply his name is gone.

also if Urizen actually lost a name, and Dante knows exactly who Urizen is, that kinda shoots your argument in the foot that Dante can passively just give names back by saying it if it did nothing to Urizen, so why should we assume Void Mundus got his name back when Dante named him?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

also if Urizen actually lost a name, and Dante knows exactly who Urizen is, that kinda shoots your argument in the foot that Dante can passively just give names back by saying it if it did nothing to Urizen, so why should we assume Void Mundus got his name back when Dante named him?

Because Not Urizen/Not Vergil is blatantly superior to Dante, while in the novel Dante is blatantly superior to VM by his own words.

Hax cannot act upwards in hierarchy without reason.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Also there are other problems with saying Void Mundus only has physical body which is absent/void. That makes his practically indifferent from the infinite number of disembodied souls which overpopulate the Demon World. Because by the sheer virtue of being a incorporeal soul your physical presence is already nothing/void. That makes every soul or true abstract on this site a NEP or none of them will qualify as they shouldn't.
It also doesn't match DMC's own lore. VM's existence would no longer be special compared to other scores of demons, demon are by default souls... by transcending his existence and becoming something special VM had differentiated himself from other demons.
And if VM actually had a soul... Dante would have sensed it. In same novel Dante casually sensed demons who were actively hide their powers when they were already weakened. VM isn't superior to Dante in anything to suggest he has busted ESP which Dante cannot look past. The only thing VM had going for him was his wierd physiology, which Dante evolved against like the overpowered idiot he is and negged VM.

 

[Sevil Natas]

also if Urizen actually lost a name, and Dante knows exactly who Urizen is, that kinda shoots your argument in the foot that Dante can passively just give names back by saying it if it did nothing to Urizen, so why should we assume Void Mundus got his name back when Dante named him?

ahem. urizen was way more powerful than dante at the time so ya cant use that as a reliable comparasion

btw i'm neutral on this. dont know too much on the new NEP
however. i can see VM not having a name or a soul for that matter. if he did then Dante would've been able to see it most likely.

 

[Ibrahem]

Urizen was literally pumped with human blood the entire time so he's not out of juice,

of course he has demonic power, you don't need a name to be powerful.

also when exactly did he lack a name cause last time I checked Vergil just split his demonic and human side, not remove their names.

mundus took vergil's name pre dmc1, he doesn't doesn't get it back until mission 18 of dmc5. also urizen literally says he's nameless to nero

Nobodies still have a physical form despite losing their names

point being? im just pointing out that demons can exist and have demonic power without a name. the nobodies don't have a statement of being a void, mundus does

Again not sensing others doesn't mean nonexistence, you'd need explicit statements for that being the case.

that sounds like a claim of blatency, in other words, what's obvious for me is not obvious for you. asking for a specific statement in this case is like wanting to be spoon-fed, there's not a single demon in the series that can resist Dante's sensing abilities and there's zero implications in the novel that mundus has resistance to sensing or whatever. also even ignoring the whole sensing thing, mundus is still called a void, meaning he lacks existence, what is existence in dmc? body, mind, soul and name. to assume its only referring to the body when the physical body is the least important thing for demons is weird.

 

[Theglassman12]

@GilverTheProtoAngelo And that somehow means Urizen isn't affected by his name being altered how? Especially when vergil can affect him with yamato according to tony? Again saying Dante couldn't have sensed it doesn't mean he's nonexistent to the point his soul is gone, if you have any proof his soul is nonexistent too that would help here.

@Sevil Natas again, doesn't mean he resists it when yamato and even V can separate and merge him despite being used by weaker beings.

@Ibrahem and Void Mundus lacks a statement his name is gone, so the nobodies comparison doesn't help here when one has a statement for lacking a name and the other doesn't.

Not really, it's just how we do things here, cause you're making massive assumptions that it can mean the soul is gone when we have no proof of it, which considering Dante recognizes it as Mundus I don't really see the whole "Dante couldn't sense his soul" argument really working when he's able to understand Mundus is the void itself.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

which considering Dante recognizes it as Mundus I don't really see the whole "Dante couldn't sense his soul" argument really working when he's able to understand Mundus is the void itself.

As the novel says during the middle of the fight Dante realized that the void wasn't empty, the void was Mundus himself, this isn't because he sensed something or could see the void but because he was fighting it. His dumb ass didn't even know how or why but he was able to interact and fight it which was enough to make him understand the darkness, the void he was in was actually the king. Even Mundus is completely dumbfounded and could barely understand what is going on.

In short Dante being able to fight Mundus was such and event that neither of them dumbassess fully understood what was happening.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

And that somehow means Urizen isn't affected by his name being altered how?

Because Superior Physiology = Superior Resistance .... that was the entire objective of how the epilogue was designed by Bingo Morihashi. To show how utterly Not-Urizen outclassed every character, even Dante at his best couldn't do jackshit to him. And Dante doesn't even address him as Urizen, he knows he is Vergil, addresses him as Vergil... but still Not-Urizen remains nameless. That's already a feat of resistance for Not-Urizen, even though we have feats of Dante naming stuff casually.

Especially when vergil can affect him with yamato according to tony?

What?? When did Vergil affect Urizen with Yamato?? Urzien is just a part of Vergil. Vergil stabbed himself and split his own existence in 2 down to his name because that's what he wanted to do. And what's Tony got to do with it? Tony/Dante shenanigans was decades before this.

Again saying Dante couldn't have sensed it doesn't mean he's nonexistent to the point his soul is gone, if you have any proof his soul is nonexistent too that would help here.

Except why would have VM have ESP resistance when Dante is superior to him and no one in series at that point could resist his sensing even if they purposely tried hiding while weakened on top?? Its explicitly showcased in same novel how sensitive and perceptive Dante is.
Besides if VM had a soul Dante would have seen it clear as a day. Fighting souls isn't something extraordinary for Dante... he does it everyday, if VM had a soul explain how is he different compared to majority of population in hell which are also just souls which Dante regularly kills?

 

[Ibrahem]

and Void Mundus lacks a statement his name is gone, so the nobodies comparison doesn't help here when one has a statement for lacking a name and the other doesn't.

i brought up the nobodies to show you that a demon can have powers without a name.

Not really, it's just how we do things here, cause you're making massive assumptions that it can mean the soul is gone when we have no proof of it,

im making massive assumptions by saying mundus has no soul when he's literally referred to as "void" in a verse where everyone & their moms can see, sense and interact with souls? i don't think so, saying im making assumptions when you're claiming mundus has resistance to sensing abilities is kinda ironic, considering your claim is not supported by anything in the series. not a single demon has resistance to such a thing, meanwhile we have multiple examples of demons not having a name, my claim is superior to yours because its actually backed up by somethings.

which considering Dante recognizes it as Mundus I don't really see the whole "Dante couldn't sense his soul" argument really working when he's able to understand Mundus is the void itself.

i already addressed this part, Dante doesn't recognise it immediately, and if mundus had a soul, he'd be no different than the soul eaters, who Dante can see and interact with just fine. he can also see demons in their spiritual form when they have no physical body
him recognising mundus is the void later is just a feat for him, we've already seen him adapt / evolve mid battle. such as when he couldn't neg chen's regen immediately, but did so eventually.


also you're ignoring this:

mundus is still called a void, meaning he lacks existence, what is existence in dmc? body, mind, soul and name.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

not a single demon has resistance to such a thing

Actually there are examples.... for instance Gilver vs Tony, Tony could never sense Gilver untill he become Dante and DSD hiding Dante's presence against Nobodies in 5.. especially when nobodies have potent magic sense and passive absorption. I bet there are more... but none of them is remotely similar to VM's case. All the instances I mentioned is someone superior who is extremely capable of hiding their presence against an inferior opponent. In VM's case he is void and also inferior to Dante.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Just call staff

 

[Theglassman12]

@Tony_di_bugalu pretty sure the text implies he sensed similar powers from mundus in the void as opposed to him just being like "oh yeah it's mundus"

@GilverTheProtoAngelo How does Urizen have superior physiology than Mundus and Argosax? He has more power, not a superior resistance, that and I don't recall their resistances growing stronger than before for any demon.

Literally him separating Urizen and V with Yamato is proof he can affect Urizen. He's half of Vergil, it's not rocket science. I'm talking about @Tony_di_bugalu Tony, not Dante Tony.

Because a Void is not the same thing as literally any normal demon that Dante has fought up till that point. Dante not being able to see it means it can be concealed, doesn't mean his soul is nonexistent, especially when for the nth time, names and souls are pretty important to demons.

@Ibrahem Just because someone can sense souls doesn't mean that they're nonexistent when someone can't sense them, especially when one can conceal their presence, which is about as valid of an assumption as claiming that his soul is nonexistent, hence my statement on it being an assumption as it can mean anything unless specified otherwise.

Sure if we have any proof of that being the case where Dante was adapting to sense Mundus instead of just recognizing Mundus from his powers alone given his experience against him.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

@Tony_di_bugalu pretty sure the text implies he sensed similar powers from mundus in the void as opposed to him just being like "oh yeah it's mundus"

No, he only knows Mundus is in his castle as that's what the rebel army told him, then they all make their way there and the army gets destroyed leaving only Dante and beryl then we get to the part I posted in the OP:



- - When they first reached the Void, Dante thought Mundus was somewhere inside the void or past it waiting for them:

"Dante regarded the void with a cynical grin. "Last time, you came out of a dog statue. What are you going to throw at me this time?"]" P. 1 40

But once they step inside they are separated, this is when Dante realizes something:

Rebellion roared through the darkness, stabbing at the void. '''''It had taken Dante a moment to realize that the void wasn't empty. The void was the king himself.''''' Somehow he knew how to fight it, slashing at the darkness and instinctively avoiding attack. P. 144. - -

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

@GilverTheProtoAngelo How does Urizen have superior physiology than Mundus and Argosax? He has more power, not a superior resistance, that and I don't recall their resistances growing stronger than before for any demon.

He always had that. Why you forget Glass? Power, hax, resistance goes under upgrades via Reactive Evolution simultaneously overtime and under duress is well documented phenomenon for Spardas on our pages, well since Tony Redgrave era. Urizen isn't just strong, he is outright superior, quite blatantly. He cannot be affected by any of Dante's haxxes, he is capable of extremely casually kill Dante which blatantly showcases he can bypass resistances of Dante. That's textbook superiority. Urizen is under constant infusion of Qlipoth which wildy and rapidly increases powers and abilities, that's why he outclassed Dante.

Literally him separating Urizen and V with Yamato is proof he can affect Urizen. He's half of Vergil, it's not rocket science. I'm talking about @Tony_di_bugalu Tony, not Dante Tony.

Vergil cutting himself is a feat for himself, heck not even a feat worthy of resistance bypassing or negation etc, since any character would be naturally capable of doing stuff to their own body in fiction. I don't know what it has got to do with Dante. Also don't forget this Urzien is not the same Urizen as the one that smacked Dante cold.

Because a Void is not the same thing as literally any normal demon that Dante has fought up till that point. Dante not being able to see it means it can be concealed, doesn't mean his soul is nonexistent, especially when for the nth time, names and souls are pretty important to demons.

Void means absence of something/everything. Souls automatically have absence of physical state. But it isn't enough for NEP as Bob said... or every ghost, spirit, soul, true abstract and incorporeal would have NEP on our sites.
VM being soul means he is literally floating around in his throne room like Casper and can possess the darkness of his own throne room. He literally loses the entire point of being a void/nothingness. Especially in DMC where soul is the primary existence of every demon while VM is an anomaly/alien to this principle.
Here is a proper example of demon souls possessing darkness/shadows. This is done by fodder demons btw.
You are literally equating VM to this.

 

[Sevil Natas]

again, doesn't mean he resists it when yamato and even V can separate and merge him despite being used by weaker beings.

dude in both those cases the party being affected wanted it to happen. heck V wasnt able to merge until he convinced his demon self in VoV.
and anyway if urizen didnt resist dante's name CM1 then Dante would've just won via his soul CM1 and ofc that didnt happen

 

[Theglassman12]

@Tony_di_bugalu so the text said that he recognizes him when he gets to the void, doesn’t that further disprove him not sending shit?

@GilverTheProtoAngelo since when? Do we have any scans that the better the physiology the stronger the resistances are?

It’s literally the same ability as any of the sparda kids going off from that alone, you need actual statements that Dante tried to give him a name but failed.

That wasn’t even my argument so you’re strawmanning me, I never said lacking a form would be NEP, I said that given how important names and souls are in DMC you need that statement for it to work.

@Sevil Natas Names aren’t the same item as the soul though, and again you need some statements that he tried to give him a name but failed in the sparda sense, not a normal sense. Cause to my knowledge Dante didn’t try to do that at all in the game.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

@Tony_di_bugalu so the text said that he recognizes him when he gets to the void, doesn’t that further disprove him not sending shit?

Last time I'm repeating myself here.

He didn't know Mundus was the void, he literally talks at the entry of the castle towards the void thinking Mundus should be somewhere inside of it then 4 pages later, during the middle of the fight is that he realizes that the void, that his body has been able to react and fight for some reason, is the king himself.

If he could sense something that would have been pages earlier but no, it literally comes almost at the end of the fight.

Names aren’t the same item as the soul though, and again you need some statements that he tried to give him a name but failed in the sparda sense, not a normal sense.

The damn Manga explicitly says how they only need to utter a name, they don't need some grandiose ritual or some flashy show. Hell the mere act of intending to name a Demon is enough considering Vergil let the sins name themselves. This happens with Tony too and with Nero, both cases is something as simple as saying the name and this also happens with void mundus.

 

[Sevil Natas]

Names aren’t the same item as the soul though, and again you need some statements that he tried to give him a name but failed in the sparda sense, not a normal sense. Cause to my knowledge Dante didn’t try to do that at all in the game.

souls carry names. if anything you would need better CM1 to affect the former not the other way around. all these characters resist the same cm1 cus by destroying their soul their name would automatically be destroyed as well

and also i only said it's unreliable for this to prove that dante didnt name VM in the novel. not that dante is giving names passively.

anyway wasnt mundus in the novel referred to as a void? and that void later was referred to as a space of nothingness further cementing that he's nothing? by that description he definitely wouldn't have a soul. since a soul would be something in that instance. and the novel affirms that there's nothing there. and in DMCs case demon souls pretty much represent the true form or the true substance of demons. in that case technically speaking. Mundus' soul would be void or nothing

 

[Lightning_XXI]

you don't need any further elaboration tho, Dante never once in the series failed to sense the soul of a demon, this is the first and only time where he can't sense a soul, the most logical explanation for this is that mundus has no soul, unless you have a different interpretation that can make sense

He failed to perceive one though, in the anime, a man was accused of killing his friend and his arrest made his (already dying) sister to die, yet, as a spirit, she contacted Dante and gave her ring as payment for him accepting the job. Dante didn't noticed anything unusual and was surprised when she disappeared...and that doesn't mean she lacked name, soul or anything like that. This is just an example, there are more

I have no problems with Mundus lacking a Soul since 1) they are absolutely common on the series, being inside someone or literally flying around and 2) Mundus wouldn't be stated as being an empty void with nothing there if he had a soul, not in DMC, they are a very, very special and unique presence in the series with literall conceptual data about the characters which they belong, if nothing was there, it is about the soul aswell. Every other reason quoted here, about Dante failing to perceive it and stuff, I disagree in using as a main reason, at best, it matches the fact that Mundus didn't had a soul, but that's it, call it consistency, but not the main pillar of the argument when Dante's senses already failed in other cases (As stupid as that sounds). Now, if names and other stuff are inside the Soul, Mundus lacked aswell since, well, he very likely lacked a soul. This is the type of confusion that POC made when they threw all sorts of dumb statements without caring about the (Massive) effects they could have, but hell, what can I do right ? A soul has the name, the information and a few more, it's absence nukes everything, it's straightforward

However I completely disagree with Dante actually hax-naming "The Void" as "Mundus" being that Name weird Sparda hax as it lacks any substantial proof beyond, you know, the name appearing, Mundus is called "The Demon King" numerous times in the series. Names are, well, I dunno if I have the word to describe how common names are, and them being into play in DMC will not always be about Concept Haxes or other special abilities, thus we should only consider that when the series is absolutely explicit about it, and in my opinion the novel wasn't

 

[Theglassman12]

@Tony_di_bugalu again that doesn't mean his soul is nonexistent though, especially his name when at no point in time does he attempt to give Mundus his name back.

So Vergil let the demons name themselves, he didn't actually just say it and it accidentally happen, so it's not really something Dante can do on accident by mentioning a name if Vergil has to do something.

@Sevil Natas That sounds more like a side effect of attacking the soul than them specifically striking the names.

Being a void doesn't mean you lose literally all aspects though, that's just NLF since by that logic every void ever loses all 5 aspects with no proof of them lacking such a thing, we'd need statements for such.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

@Tony_di_bugalu again that doesn't mean his soul is nonexistent though, especially his name when at no point in time does he attempt to give Mundus his name back.

So Vergil let the demons name themselves, he didn't actually just say it and it accidentally happen, so it's not really something Dante can do on accident by mentioning a name if Vergil has to do something.

He doesn't need to "attempt" to give him a name. The mere act of intending to name a demon is enough. Which is what happens when Vergil names the demons, he goes with the intention to name them and lets them choose a name.

Dante himself did it, "on accident" if you will, to himself when he went back to being Dante, as the scan above states he can do it just like Vergil, he did it to Nero in DMC 4 without even knowing it after separating him from the savior with Yamato. There is another one from the Manga that says how easy it is for them to change the value of every as they can mess with names just because of their connection to Sparda (damn obi was right, Dante is busted because of daddy)

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

He failed to perceive one though, in the anime, a man was accused of killing his friend and his arrest made his (already dying) sister to die, yet, as a spirit, she contacted Dante and gave her ring as payment for him accepting the job. Dante didn't noticed anything unusual and was surprised when she disappeared...and that doesn't mean she lacked name, soul or anything like that. This is just an example, there are more

I have no problems with Mundus lacking a Soul since 1) they are absolutely common on the series, being inside someone or literally flying around and 2) Mundus wouldn't be stated as being an empty void with nothing there if he had a soul, not in DMC, they are a very, very special and unique presence in the series with literall conceptual data about the characters which they belong, if nothing was there, it is about the soul aswell. Every other reason quoted here, about Dante failing to perceive it and stuff, I disagree in using as a main reason, at best, it matches the fact that Mundus didn't had a soul, but that's it, call it consistency, but not the main pillar of the argument when Dante's senses already failed in other cases (As stupid as that sounds). Now, if names and other stuff are inside the Soul, Mundus lacked aswell since, well, he very likely lacked a soul. This is the type of confusion that POC made when they threw all sorts of dumb statements without caring about the (Massive) effects they could have, but hell, what can I do right ? A soul has the name, the information and a few more, it's absence nukes everything, it's straightforward

However I completely disagree with Dante actually hax-naming "The Void" as "Mundus" being that Name weird Sparda hax as it lacks any substantial proof beyond, you know, the name appearing, Mundus is called "The Demon King" numerous times in the series. Names are, well, I dunno if I have the word to describe how common names are, and them being into play in DMC will not always be about Concept Haxes or other special abilities, thus we should only consider that when the series is absolutely explicit about it, and in my opinion the novel wasn't

Refer to what I said in previous posts. The act of naming a Demon is as simple for them as breathing with Dante having done so several times or being stated to be capable to.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Tony_di_bugalu the vergil scan doesn't sound like something he'd have to name, just that he'd need to give them the ability to speak their names again, cause vergil doesn't know their names but actively gave them the ability to speak their names again, this doesn't sound like an unintentional passive ability for dante and vergil if the latter had to actively make them use their names.

The first scan is a bit vague, looks like changing his name from Tony to Dante acts like a limiter thing than just him swapping names by accidentally naming them something, and the second one is just Yamato's work if it's supposed to be Nero coming out of the savior, that has nothing to do with dante naming Nero. Yeah, said act is them granting them their names or removing said names, nothing about it literally saying it by complete accident and their names are restored.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Bump

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Totally forgot to comment here..

 

[Sevil Natas]

Being a void doesn't mean you lose literally all aspects though, that's just NLF since by that logic every void ever loses all 5 aspects with no proof of them lacking such a thing, we'd need statements for such.

in this case it isn't. since the soul in DMC is not some invisible thing that cannot be seen by other characters. everytime a demon gets defeated by dante but not permanently killed their soul always shows up from inside them and turn into devil arms. and its always visible. to the audience and dante.

basically what i'm saying is dante not being able to see his soul + not even sensing it despite that he have fought him before in 1 + the writers not even acknowledging its existence and calling mundus an empty void and a space of nothingness indicates that he had no soul at that state.

ironically. the argument that he had some form of resistance to ESP and invisibility to hide his soul away is the one that needs statements cus it's a positive argument it needs good premises or else it falls apart. the facts that we know from the novel indicates that he has no such things. unlike with DSS for example which had statements for its resistance of ESP.

as for the OPs argument it has very convincing premises that are backed by the novel.

A: Mundus being a non existant void
B: Dante not being able to sense or see mundus' soul despite having that ability

so the only natural conclusion from that is the fact that mundus had no soul at that state
is there really something wrong with this reasoning?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

@GilverTheProtoAngelo since when? Do we have any scans that the better the physiology the stronger the resistances are?

Dude that's like asking if fire is supposed to be hot. Since like forever......
Why do you think we created all those classes called low tier, mid tier, high tier etc classes of demons?? Why do you think we mention "All previous resistance/hax in addition to" and "all previous hax and resistance enhanced" etc??
What else is physiology on our pages but a classification of various types of demons with hax and resistance. That's literally the fundamental building block of the page.

It’s literally the same ability as any of the sparda kids going off from that alone, you need actual statements that Dante tried to give him a name but failed.

If we needed statement for everything, 99% of of stuff on our wiki pages wouldn't exist. Dude context is a thing you know. Million different little things can come together to create a circumstance. You don't need it to be hyperspecific statement from author.
We have more than enough context goimg for us to prove our case. While your assumption is actually disproven by another context which I have already mentioned multiple times.

That wasn’t even my argument so you’re strawmanning me, I never said lacking a form would be NEP, I said that given how important names and souls are in DMC you need that statement for it to work.

You are just being shortsighted. I am just showing to you the logical consequence of your position. If you make VM according to your arguement, he will end up losing NEP and literally become just another Soul Eater like demon. He lose all hype and importance of all his being an anomaly in the series. There is no point left in him bejng a void at that point.

He failed to perceive one though, in the anime, a man was accused of killing his friend and his arrest made his (already dying) sister to die, yet, as a spirit, she contacted Dante and gave her ring as payment for him accepting the job. Dante didn't noticed anything unusual and was surprised when she disappeared...and that doesn't mean she lacked name, soul or anything like that. This is just an example, there are more

That particular episode was height of PIS/CIS, hell the anime in general has a couple of PIS/CIS. Like why is Dante missing shots constantly in every episode?? Why is suddenly his heart a weakness now?? Why does he get possessed by a locket despite verbatim said to immune to even stronger possession abilities even as a child?? Why does he allow some filthy creep of a jailer who is demon in disguise to touch his favorite guns??

I don't think that particular case of anti feat can be used against Dante in this case. Especially if he is regularly regarded as an excellent sensor, moreso in this iteration of novel when even demons without power and active ESP resistance cannot hide their true forms and strength.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

this doesn't sound like an unintentional passive ability for dante and vergil if the latter had to actively make them use their names.

That's a strawman. We never claimed it's a passive ability. Tony has repeatedly explained the ability in great detail and it's literally not passive.
Its simple the Sparda bois mere intent and utterance of name is enough to "name" demons. The intent can be either subconscious or conscious. But it's not passive. That's why it has happened as an accident before with case of Dante/Tony.
Just because his mother(Eva) told him to change his name, the little kid changed his own concept without having any knowledge of his own power or nature of names. For all we know Eva could have meant to chnage his identity simply as humans define it, not as humans define names.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

That particular episode was height of PIS/CIS, hell the anime in general has a couple of PIS/CIS. Like why is Dante missing shots constantly in every episode?? Why is suddenly his heart a weakness now?? Why does he get possessed by a locket despite verbatim said to immune to even stronger possession abilities even as a child?? Why does he allow some filthy creep of a jailer who is demon in disguise to touch his favorite guns??

I don't think that particular case of anti feat can be used against Dante in this case. Especially if he is regularly regarded as an excellent sensor, moreso in this iteration of novel when even demons without power and active ESP resistance cannot hide their true forms and strength.

Interesting how every single time all the details, layers of haxes, senses, immortalities and whatever related to them visibly fail we call PIS and that’s it. I guess DMC is the series with the most PISs except Marvel and DC then ? Dante sometimes failing his senses (It happens through the series) aren't things to just ignore in favor of upgrades or, in this case, create excuses to justify additions that don't need these. If you start using something and that something creates a string of inconsistencies through the series, how can we call it accurate ? In my view both "Senses" and "Names" here are used based on NLF and "PISing" other moments of the series just because, that's careless, although the CRT's results are (Should be, I agreed with it despite my post not being that clear) accurate