The Immortal Wanderer with Unfinished Business (Van Hohenheim vs Frieren)

[Peppersalt43]

Frieren : 0
Hohenheim : 0
Incon : 0

Frieren's Hypersonic+ is restricted (It's in "possibly", that is allowed, right?)
Starting distance is 100 meters
Base Frieren used

So I learned that G1 Blog is planning on making Frieren vs Hohenheim and looking through their profiles here, I thought it'd be neat. I learned some time ago that the verse had +2 layered soul manip and I was wondering how it'd interact with non-conventional methods of soul manip resistance (Like Hohenheim having a bunch of souls in him). And even if it bypasses, it's still 2 very skilled glass cannons going against each other (Though I'll probably give Hohenheim prior knowledge when that comes to pass).

EDIT : Hey, it got released. Let's see if we get a different result here

 

[Peppersalt43]

Ah, the first bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[SchroKatze]

It's basically "who hits first" match. Both can one-shot the other. I dunno if the sheer ap difference (compared to his durability) + soul damage would be able to destroy him beyond his regen tho.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Hmm, I guess I'll wait for extra information for now

 

[Peppersalt43]

Anyway, bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Frieren FRA

Nobody's voted yet

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Honestly I gotta give this to Frieren.

Hohenheim certainly has strong offensive choices but his defensive ones are lacking compared to what Frieren can output here. More than that is the fact that Hohenheim isn't one for one shotting people with lethal force which is more than enough for Frieren to act and win.

IDK about Frieren's mindset or if she is willing to kill humans but the fact that she can amp her attack and defense means she can take more hits than Hohenheim, he can obviously regenerate but any lethal hit means he loses souls and the more the fight drags on the more he loses the soul stock and at some point he will run out of soul.

TL;DR: Hohenheim won't fight to kill and if he holds back then his attacks won't deal enough damage. Frieren has enough firepower to hurt/kill him over and over and since she is more unhinged than him she might even go for the spam and kill him for a good while until he is done for..

 

[Peppersalt43]

TL;DR: Hohenheim won't fight to kill and if he holds back then his attacks won't deal enough damage. Frieren has enough firepower to hurt/kill him over and over and since she is more unhinged than him she might even go for the spam and kill him for a good while until he is done for..

Funny how in the G1 blog, Hohenheim won because Frieren likely isn't gonna use her more lethal haxes on him immediately. Could've sworn the main cast usually holds back against either humans or people with less magic but I'll wait for the Frieren supporters to confirm that

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Funny how in the G1 blog, Hohenheim won because Frieren likely isn't gonna use her more lethal haxes on him immediately. Could've sworn the main cast usually holds back against either humans or people with less magic but I'll wait for the Frieren supporters to confirm that

I mean, even if she doesn't she still has enough powah behind her attacks to smash him by accident. But yeah it depends on what the supporters/knowledgeable ones say.

 

[Armorchompy]

Hoh is a pacifist when he can but he was also willing to destroy Father when that was necessary, I doubt he won't use lethal force when needed, and even if it's not that he can just knock her out. Certainly he won't just let her injure him over and over again without proper retaliation, and once he does his attacks are tens of times stronger so he can blast through her barriers and she can't. Seems simple enough to me.

The assumption that she would accidentally kill him (over and over) without meaning to whereas he would never use enough power to injure her even accidentally sounds very silly to me. She's the one with the lower durability of the two, if you want to go that route Hoh would probably expect 8-C durability from her.

Also, I don't see Soul Manip on her page?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Also, I don't see Soul Manip on her page?

Looking back at the profile, I think I was mistaken. The +2 was just on her Resistance Negation

You'd think an attack named "Soul Track" would, y'know, attack the soul. Guess I was mistaken

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, lets continue the discussion

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[Armorchompy]

Looking back at the profile, I think I was mistaken. The +2 was just on her Resistance Negation

You'd think an attack named "Soul Track" would, y'know, attack the soul. Guess I was mistaken

That seems to just target demons, so unless that's wrong it's not much of an issue

 

[Peppersalt43]

That seems to just target demons, so unless that's wrong it's not much of an issue

I was gonna argue for regular Soul Track but yeah, I'm pretty sure Frieren won't go for that immediately if I recall correctly

I'm still waiting for you Frieren supporters

 

[Zabazab]

You'd think an attack named "Soul Track" would, y'know, attack the soul. Guess I was mistaken

It's a misromanization. The attack is actually Zoltraak, it just sounds the same as Soul Track in Japanese (both are Zoruturakku).

Anyways I don't think Frieren has hax that'd allow her to bypass his immortality, so all she could do is spam attacks to kill him enough times that his Stone runs dry.

Frieren's best tool would be her mind, she's been able to analyze and copy/nullify tons of techniques even mid-battle. She has also used Sealing against opponents she deemed impossible for her to defeat.

 

[Peppersalt43]

She has also used Sealing against opponents she deemed impossible for her to defeat.

How does it work?

 

[Zabazab]

How does it work?

It isn't really elaborated on, all we know is that both she and the Hero's Party were defeated at the hands of the Demon Qual, and so she cast some sort of magic that sealed him in stone for decades.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Hoh is a pacifist when he can but he was also willing to destroy Father when that was necessary, I doubt he won't use lethal force when needed, and even if it's not that he can just knock her out.

Yeah, against Father because of their very own history together, he never used lethal force in any other encounter even against Pride, he instead tried to run away from him.

Certainly he won't just let her injure him over and over again without proper retaliation, and once he does his attacks are tens of times stronger so he can blast through her barriers and she can't. Seems simple enough to me.

It'same the other way around. Her attacks are tens of times stronger so anything she does can easily tear him to pieces.

Also the difference in AP is about 33 times in favor of Hohen btw.

The assumption that she would accidentally kill him (over and over) without meaning to whereas he would never use enough power to injure her even accidentally sounds very silly to me. She's the one with the lower durability of the two, if you want to go that route Hoh would probably expect 8-C durability from her.

Considering she goes for the kill almost all the time I would expect that to happen while, like I said, Hohen just doesn't like to play like that.

Also no? Frieren has tier 7 dura with magic while Hohen is H8C at best

TL;DR
Despite being over 33 times stronger Hohenheim doesn't fight to kill and against Father it was because they have a long ass story and Hohen definitively wants to stop him, same motivation isn't there for Frieren so he has no reason to go all out while she actually does afaik and with his dura being H8C she can easily kill him dozens of times before Hohen can even get his shit together.

 

[Arkenis]

Voting Van

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah, against Father because of their very own history together, he never used lethal force in any other encounter even against Pride, he instead tried to run away from him.

Because Pride is really strong, really hard to kill permanently due to regen, and ultimately unimportant to his plans? No shit he ran, he thought he might lose and had nothing to gain from winning.

It'same the other way around. Her attacks are tens of times stronger so anything she does can easily tear him to pieces.

But he can form barriers against hers and she can't against his, and if they clash head-on he'll win.

Also the difference in AP is about 33 times in favor of Hohen btw.

I would consider that "tens of times"

Considering she goes for the kill almost all the time I would expect that to happen while, like I said, Hohen just doesn't like to play like that.

Also no? Frieren has tier 7 dura with magic while Hohen is H8C at best

Hohenheim has tier 7 dura with barriers, and Frieren's "defensive magic" works only against magic, which Alchemy isn't.

TL;DR
Despite being over 33 times stronger Hohenheim doesn't fight to kill and against Father it was because they have a long ass story and Hohen definitively wants to stop him, same motivation isn't there for Frieren so he has no reason to go all out while she actually does afaik and with his dura being H8C she can easily kill him dozens of times before Hohen can even get his shit together.

I'm going to be honest, this is as flimsy as it gets.

"In character, but will attempt to win the battle. [...] Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. The characters will assume their opponents have not been forced into battle. They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law."

You're saying that Hohenheim, while repeatedly getting murdered by Frieren, will absolutely refuse to utilize not just lethal force but even just attack hard enough to knock her out, despite the fact that he is taking the battle seriously, he is unable to run away, and that he knows the fight will only end when one can beat the other?

 

[Zabazab]

Hohenheim has tier 7 dura with barriers, and Frieren's "defensive magic" works only against magic, which Alchemy isn't.

Defense Magic works against physical objects, it's just that the aspect of it having several layers of magic neutralization doesn't come into play. This is a plotpoint in the story as newer Mages focus on controlling physical objects rather than creating objects with Magic, because modern defensive magic is heavily specialized from Zoltraak.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Van FRA

 

[Armorchompy]

Defense Magic works against physical objects, it's just that the aspect of it having several layers of magic neutralization doesn't come into play. This is a plotpoint in the story as newer Mages focus on controlling physical objects rather than creating objects with Magic, because modern defensive magic is heavily specialized from Zoltraak.

Eh, fair. Hoh should still be able to punch through it when he wants to though

 

[Peppersalt43]

I'm gonna wait just a little bit longer before counting these votes

 

[Armorchompy]

Something I failed to notice is speed isn't equal, giving Frieren a nearly exact 1.5x speed advantage. That is fairly significant but doesn't change my vote.