Ogre Dad VS Alchemy Dad

[BakiHanma18]

It's literally on his page and has been accepted on this site. Lifting Strength is literally the stat used for grip, which is what Guise is... also, doesn't matter, as Hoenhiem's constructs still get bulldozed through

Check his page before you make any incorrect claims.

No, you basically said he has blood manipulation because of his regen, which he doesn't. Also, regen doesn't help against Hohenheim getting pinned. Analytical Prediction allows him to know where Hohenheim is going to try to evade to, Hohenheim evading and using range literally being the crux of your argument... as far as Hohenheim's constructs, they're literally just AP, nothing special at all. Show me Hohenheim leading with a massive bombardment of constructs and running away once. "Baki wank"= you don't have any counter points

 

[Anttron224]

You can't say you've proven something wrong because you made a statement that has a counter argument against it (That you are essentially ignoring by saying they're irrelevant), then act like I'm misrepresenting your claims.

 

[Anttron224]

Also in his clash with 7-C father he actively went closer to him at points in the fight. If he doesn't go towards opponents of similar strength in combat scenarios why would he do that, especially to Father, who I would argue is way more of a threat to Hohenheim than Yuichiro?


I do know that he was trying to talk to him, but he could've tryed to stay the same distance away or move further away from Father's attacks.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

It's literally on his page and has been accepted on this site. Lifting Strength is literally the stat used for grip, which is what Guise is... also, doesn't matter, as Hoenhiem's constructs still get bulldozed through.


It being on his page is irrelevant when no context is being shined onto it. At no point is it stated that Yuchiro fought every single waking minute of the day fighting against the army without any breaks. And again, this is under the assumption that Hohenheim would even engage in close Combat against him, which he wouldn't. And Hanma isn't busting through the constructs when they have more AP, especially since he can't use DB here.


Read the above comment. Again, prove to me he fought for days on end without taking breaks. That's right, you can't.


No, you basically said he has blood manipulation because of his regen, which he doesn't. Also, regen doesn't help against Hohenheim getting pinned. Analytical Prediction allows him to know where Hohenheim is going to try to evade to, Hohenheim evading and using range literally being the crux of your argument... as far as Hohenheim's constructs, they're literally just AP, nothing special at all. Show me Hohenheim leading with a massive bombardment of constructs and running away once. "Baki wank"= you don't have any counter points.


Did i say regen counters being pinned? No, there you go misconstruing shit again Baki. And funnily enough Hohenheim should actually have blood manipulation as seen with his fight against Father. And Yuchiro never once used his AP against something thought based, he doesn't have Almighty Precognition to know every single possible outcome of Hohenheim's moves. Against Pride, trapping him, etc.


Also in his clash with 7-C father he actively went closer to him throughout the fight. If he doesn't go towards opponents of similar strength in combat scenarios why would he do that, especially to Father, who I would argue is way more of a threat to Hohenheim than Yuichiro?


Because that was Hohenheim's plan for Father. He wanted Father to try to take his stone so he could attack Father directly from his soul.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Also in his clash with 7-C father he actively went closer to him at points in the fight. If he doesn't go towards opponents of similar strength in combat scenarios why would he do that, especially to Father, who I would argue is way more of a threat to Hohenheim than Yuichiro?

I do know that he was trying to talk to him, but he could've tryed to stay the same distance away or move further away from Father's attacks.

Yeah, if Hohenheim gets closer to similar AP opponents, this is all but over...

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4019680?useskin=oasis#2


Oh look y'all were wrong, it's almost like I wasn't telling you this since the beginning of this thread.

 

[Anttron224]

@The Prince of Counters

I'll get some more scans of the military fight

But Baki never said he would predict the constructs, just Hohenheim's movement patterns. Also, Yuichiro is vastly above 15 kilotons, not equal to it. Assuming we use Hohenheim's low end the ap diff should be negligible.

Yeah, looking back at their fight your third point makes a lot of sense.

 

[BakiHanma18]

While I could just send you on your way with a "go CRT it then" I won't waste time, because the stamina argument was from the kill win con anyway, which I'm not even mentioning. 1) Hohenheim v Father says no, he does get closer IC, and 2) Hohenheim does not have AP advantage

You okay buddy? This seems to be getting to you, you can take a breather if you need to

Sure okay buddy, pin still works though (and red-out since that hasn't been disproven). CRT it then. Okay, but no that argument is 100% fallacy. There is nothing special about the properties of Hohenheim's constructs, so Yuichiro AP's them. That's like saying "Hohenheim has never used his constructs against a Hanma, so I guess he can't". Unless Hohenheim isn't made of muscles, every physical movement he makes will be read quite considerably in advance, and without even using the Almighty, imagine that

 

[Anttron224]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4019680?useskin=oasis#2
Oh look y'all were wrong, it's almost like I wasn't telling you this since the beginning of this thread.

Passing out for a brief second at high hypersonic speeds is enough time to be killed.

 

[BakiHanma18]

"he would be unlikely to pass out or for a brief second" doesn't equal "He can't pass out from having red-out levels of G-Force applied constantly until he dies"

 

[Anttron224]

Also in his clash with 7-C father he actively went closer to him at points in the fight. If he doesn't go towards opponents of similar strength in combat scenarios why would he do that, especially to Father, who I would argue is way more of a threat to Hohenheim than Yuichiro?

I do know that he was trying to talk to him, but he could've tryed to stay the same distance away or move further away from Father's attacks.

Yeah, if Hohenheim gets closer to similar AP opponents, this is all but over...

That was contextual. He doesn't do that normally.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Also in his clash with 7-C father he actively went closer to him at points in the fight. If he doesn't go towards opponents of similar strength in combat scenarios why would he do that, especially to Father, who I would argue is way more of a threat to Hohenheim than Yuichiro?

I do know that he was trying to talk to him, but he could've tryed to stay the same distance away or move further away from Father's attacks.

Yeah, if Hohenheim gets closer to similar AP opponents, this is all but over...

That was contextual. He doesn't do that normally.

Regardless, doesn't really make that much of a difference with Analytical Prediction and skill

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

funnily enough official scans never say they did it for day's,just several times. The profile needs to be updated.


1: Him getting closer to Father was his entire plan, to get Father to take his stone so he can attack him from the inside.


And I'm perfectly fine, just calling a spade a spade.


And your entire argument falls apart with his Analytical Prediction, Hohenheim isn't Edward where he does Alchemy manually. It's thought based, so unless Yuchiro can read mind he can't tell where Hohenheim is going.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

"he would be unlikely to pass out or for a brief second" doesn't equal "He can't pass out from having red-out levels of G-Force applied constantly until he dies"

You literally heard the words right from the sheeps mouth mate. Don't like it? Make a CRT because that's how Regenerationn on this level is treated and nothing you can say is gonna change that.

 

[Anttron224]

We aren't talking about his alchemy attacks, we're talking about where he would dodge. As in if Yuichiro smashes these constructs he could easily throw their rubble boulders as projectiles towards Hohenheim. I completely agree that he can't predict almost instaneous thought based non-martial arts attacks, but that wasn't our claim.

Edit: I just saw your message man, Baki he can't predict stone pillars stop making our argument worse.

 

[Anttron224]

Sure okay buddy, pin still works though (and red-out since that hasn't been disproven). CRT it then. Okay, but no that argument is 100% fallacy. There is nothing special about the properties of Hohenheim's constructs, so Yuichiro AP's them. That's like saying "Hohenheim has never used his constructs against a Hanma, so I guess he can't". Unless Hohenheim isn't made of muscles, every physical movement he makes will be read quite considerably in advance, and without even using the Almighty, imagine that

Hohenheim's movements don't coincide with his attacks

 

[Anttron224]

He isn't an Earth bender

 

[Anttron224]

Also what is with y'alls passive aggressive energy, chill out please.

 

[BakiHanma18]

"he would be unlikely to pass out or for a brief second" doesn't equal "He can't pass out from having red-out levels of G-Force applied constantly until he dies"

You literally heard the words right from the sheeps mouth mate. Don't like it? Make a CRT because that's how Regenerationn on this level is treated and nothing you can say is gonna change that.

Lol I literally don't have to change anything. A staff member just told you that it not only depends on how the verse treats regen (which I see no evidence that FMA regen stops someone from becoming unconscious), but only that preventing unconsciousness is only likely, not guaranteed...

 

[BakiHanma18]

Sure okay buddy, pin still works though (and red-out since that hasn't been disproven). CRT it then. Okay, but no that argument is 100% fallacy. There is nothing special about the properties of Hohenheim's constructs, so Yuichiro AP's them. That's like saying "Hohenheim has never used his constructs against a Hanma, so I guess he can't". Unless Hohenheim isn't made of muscles, every physical movement he makes will be read quite considerably in advance, and without even using the Almighty, imagine that

Hohenheim's movements don't coincide with his attacks

Not his attack movements, his attempts to escape and abuse range

 

[Anttron224]

Sure okay buddy, pin still works though (and red-out since that hasn't been disproven). CRT it then. Okay, but no that argument is 100% fallacy. There is nothing special about the properties of Hohenheim's constructs, so Yuichiro AP's them. That's like saying "Hohenheim has never used his constructs against a Hanma, so I guess he can't". Unless Hohenheim isn't made of muscles, every physical movement he makes will be read quite considerably in advance, and without even using the Almighty, imagine that

 

[Anttron224]

This thread:


VS

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Hohenheim scales above 28 Kilotons by a vast amount. Kimblee did his feat effortlessly and with a stone poessesing way less souls than Father or Hohenheim's stone. Yuchiro isn't effortlessly smashing through Hohenheim's constructs.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Sure okay buddy, pin still works though (and red-out since that hasn't been disproven). CRT it then. Okay, but no that argument is 100% fallacy. There is nothing special about the properties of Hohenheim's constructs, so Yuichiro AP's them. That's like saying "Hohenheim has never used his constructs against a Hanma, so I guess he can't". Unless Hohenheim isn't made of muscles, every physical movement he makes will be read quite considerably in advance, and without even using the Almighty, imagine that

Sorry, not AP as in Analytical Prediction, but Attack Potency, like he can just punch them or hit them or even just tank them and continue onward. Sorry for the misunderstanding

 

[00potato]

How?

 

[Anttron224]

I didn't think about the FMA scaling like that. So Yuichiro should have DB to close the AP gap?

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

FMA does scale like that, it's literally why Father wanted to turn Amestris into a massive Philosopher Stone, which are stronger with the more souls used.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I didn't think about the FMA scaling like that. So Yuichiro should have DB to close the AP gap?

Yeah, I'd say if AP is the only obstacle left, unrestrict DB. Yuichiro then scales vastly above 60 KT (as in above someone who could casually 2 shot a 15 KT before getting a 4x boost)

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

If Yuichiro gets his DB you should give Hohenheim a bit of prep time to compensate.

 

[Anttron224]

If Yuichiro gets his DB you should give Hohenheim a bit of prep time to compensate.

In the scenario I gave he has first attack advantage over Yuichiro and has already seen how he fights

 

[BakiHanma18]

If Yuichiro gets his DB you should give Hohenheim a bit of prep time to compensate.

Why does Hohenheim need prep if Yuichiro had no win con? This was to even the playing field

 

[Schnee_One]

I see no reason why Hohenheim can be KOd physically when the first Greed Literally got his Head blown off and was still able to be conscious and still move while regenerating

Yuichiro gets destroyed

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

That's not prep time.

 

[Anttron224]

Also I went back to those scans I was talking about and they could've been fighting Yuichiro for a maximum of 38 days, since their scuffle began after the signing of the treaty and the Major General's request for the use of an atomic bomb was denied because the treaty signing/end of the war was televised 38 days prior to their fight. So even if he wasn't fighting every single second, the fight was still possibly longer than a month.

 

[Anttron224]

That's not prep time.

But it is prior knowledge

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

By the way, if Hohenheim so wishes he can literally say **** the ground their fighting on like this Yuichiro is skilled and all but fighting is rendered impossible if you can't get proper footing due to the ground below you altering.

 

[Anttron224]

Yujiro could stand completely still during an Magnitude 6 earthquake, so Yuichiro who is possibly stronger should scale. So balance wouldn't be an issue if Hohenheim did that.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

That's simple shaking, the the manipulation of the literal battleground. Also again, fighting non stop is unsupported. Hell even in times of actual war we don't fight non stop, we've been in war with the middle east but we don't spend literally every single second of the war. We take breaks, pull back to strategize, sleep etc. They aren't gonna be coming at him non stop for 38 days straight without any form of interference.

 

[Anttron224]

A mag 6 earthquake is a lot more than simple shaking, but I guess it isn't exactly the same. Nothing is stopping Yuichiro from running around or punching through the manipulated earth.

 

[Schnee_One]

Anyway, voting Hohenheim via regen and versatility