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The Great Sisyphean Quest to Downgrade God of War ⌈Part 12⌋

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Making good use of that CRT limit.

Soul Manipulation [Kratos' Demigod Key]

Kratos has this from multiple showings of being able to interact with and kill souls. Cool. No issue with that, but our Soul Manipulation page says the following:
It should be noted that the ability to interact with souls and other non-corporeal entities directly as if they were physical objects is usually considered Non-Physical Interaction and does not grant the user the ability to manipulate souls in other contexts.
Kratos being able to interact with souls is NPI and not soul manipulation. There is also this feat of Kratos "forcing out" a Siren's soul. This is valid, but also ignorant of the context that Kratos practically folds the thing in half before its soul leaves its body. This would be an example of them "dying" and their soul leaving their body that way, rather than Kratos having some magic ability to rip souls out with his bare hands.

Statistics Reduction [Kratos’ Demigod Key]

The Amulet of Uroboros can lower enemy defenses when lifting them into the air. However, this is not actually reducing their durability; It is merely in reference to them being left helpless and unable to defend themselves while suspended. This would also require removing the ability and resistance to it from various other pages that use the amulet or can resist its effects.

All of Hades’ Powers [Kratos’ God Key]

The claim here is that Kratos absorbed Hades’ soul, which also caused him to absorb every other soul Hades has absorbed across his own lifetime. The second claim is pretty easy to debunk; Earlier in the fight, Hades absorbs a bunch of souls. Then Kratos absorbs Hades’ soul. And then all the souls Hades absorbed fly out of his body and across the Underworld, with some even turning on their former master. Kratos explicitly did not absorb the same souls that Hades did; Even ignoring the very blatant contradiction at play here, nothing even suggests this was the case to begin with.

As for Kratos having access to every one of Hades’ powers, and the powers of every single soul he absorbed, that’s also dubious. Bruno’s cited statement here reads “I suppose that as opposed to Hades, Kratos needs to have the hooks in his possession to maintain control of all the trapped souls. Those were lost in the battle with Zeus. Otherwise Kratos would need to carry not only Hades but all enemy souls.” Bruno’s statement is a bit ambiguous, but one thing he does not say is anything about using the powers of trapped souls, only maintaining control over them. The second source cited here states that "Kratos doesn't gain many vastly different powers by using the Claws of Hades...", which flatly contradicts the statement it is being cited to support. Additionally, Bruno’s statement only says “all enemy souls,” which suggests that soul ownership would not transfer over with the Blades of Hades, but would rather be predicated upon Kratos' actions with them. Are all enemies of Hades enemies of Kratos?

All of Ares’ Powers [Kratos’ God Key]

It is assumed that Kratos inherited all of Ares’ abilities after assuming the mantle of the god of war. There is no citation for this, nor is there anything to suggest that the title of “god” gives one access to all the abilities of whoever held that title previously. The CRT this addition was from also cites nothing and just insists Kratos should have these powers. Nobody called the OP out on this.

Durability Negation [Bifrost Magic]

Users of Bifrost magic can coat people in Bifrost, which then detonates if the target is struck again. Explosions do not negate durability, even if they’re tanked at point blank.
 
I think Bifröst is considered Dura Neg for doing a set amount of damage to people? I dunno
 
I think Bifröst is considered Dura Neg for doing a set amount of damage to people? I dunno
I saw the explanation page mention that it ignores blocking and defenses, but I couldn't find any indication it ignores like, an in-game defense stat. I think it's just in regards to Bifrost bypassing shields (since a chunk of wood or metal on your arm ain't gonna defend against your entire body being covered in explosives).
I have to ask, what’s the purpose of this gif?
It's really funny to me, personally. Some combination of the camera work, lack of particle effects, and the way Kratos gently pulls his arm back makes it look like pathetically weak, which I think works well for a downgrade thread. Him getting mauled by wolves was another contender.
 
I saw the explanation page mention that it ignores blocking and defenses, but I couldn't find any indication it ignores like, an in-game defense stat. I think it's just in regards to Bifrost bypassing shields (since a chunk of wood or metal on your arm ain't gonna defend against your entire body being covered in explosives).
You could probably find something in the PC port's files on the matter, but that shit is some months from now

Or you could ask one of the devs or something about Bifröst from a Gameplay standpoint

(Like "Does Bifröst deal a set amount of damage in Gameplay?")

But that seems overkill
 
You could probably find something in the PC port's files on the matter, but that shit is some months from now

Or you could ask one of the devs or something about Bifröst from a Gameplay standpoint

(Like "Does Bifröst deal a set amount of damage in Gameplay?")

But that seems overkill
I've looked at multiple online guides and none seem to mention any sort of defense-bypassing trait, which is odd, since you think that'd be a really important thing to mention in a guide.
 
This gif made me laugh so hard I started dry heaving, thank you.
Anyway, I agree. That soul manipulation justification was always weird for me, especially when people argued that Kratos could just destroy the soul by punching in vs matches
It's a common thing among GoW profiles, where a valid ability is made out to be way more impressive than it really is. Like how Kratos' absorption, where he can absorb a lot of shit from people he kills, is interpreted as him having some sort of passive contact-based absorption (which leads to silly shit like "Kratos just punches Goku and absorbs his powers, soul, and lifeforce").
 
Average MCU fan


9c71122d6d2b156b946f6e6a3df99654.gif
Throwing is LS I believe

Also I agree with most of the CRT, but I’m a bit iffy on the bifrost thing if it always does a certain amount of damage regardless of defense. Doesn’t Sans have duraneg for a similar reason or am I mistaken?
 
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Unless there is someone else to continue having contention in place, I could go ahead and close the thread. Or if someone prefers time to continue what they started, they could always make threads later with this being a good time to close either way to make things easier on both sides. But I can leave it up to opinions, all in favor of closing the this thread?
 
Unless there is someone else to continue having contention in place, I could go ahead and close the thread. Or if someone prefers time to continue what they started, they could always make threads later with this being a good time to close either way to make things easier on both sides. But I can leave it up to opinions, all in favor of closing the this thread?
Closing means it'd be applied, yes? If not, then why?
 
There was no contentions for the OP proposal? As a staff, I am basically neutral and kind of exhausted with both sides tbh. For one, KLOL left and Planck hasn't been as active as he used to with defending the abilities iirc. But I do know Deagon still has proposals to remove abilities from the looks of it. But a lot of staff were pinged earlier and none of them responded.
 
There was no contentions for the OP proposal? As a staff, I am basically neutral and kind of exhausted with both sides tbh. For one, KLOL left and Planck hasn't been as active as he used to with defending the abilities iirc. But I do know Deagon still has proposals to remove abilities from the looks of it. But a lot of staff were pinged earlier and none of them responded.
I didn't feel like going through a dozen threads of something I already addressed almost 3 months ago. That's all there is to it. As for this thread specifically, you're the only evaluating staff that's been here so it can't exactly be passed with zero staff support.

I don't care for either closing it or letting it stay open. Either option works.
 
Soul Manipulation [Kratos' Demigod Key]

Kratos has this from multiple showings of being able to interact with and kill souls. Cool. No issue with that, but our Soul Manipulation page says the following:
Kratos being able to interact with souls is NPI and not soul manipulation. There is also this feat of Kratos "forcing out" a Siren's soul. This is valid, but also ignorant of the context that Kratos practically folds the thing in half before its soul leaves its body. This would be an example of them "dying" and their soul leaving their body that way, rather than Kratos having some magic ability to rip souls out with his bare hands.
Agreed. That's just clearly against our standards.

Statistics Reduction [Kratos’ Demigod Key]

The Amulet of Uroboros can lower enemy defenses when lifting them into the air. However, this is not actually reducing their durability; It is merely in reference to them being left helpless and unable to defend themselves while suspended. This would also require removing the ability and resistance to it from various other pages that use the amulet or can resist its effects.
Straightforward.

All of Hades’ Powers [Kratos’ God Key]

The claim here is that Kratos absorbed Hades’ soul, which also caused him to absorb every other soul Hades has absorbed across his own lifetime. The second claim is pretty easy to debunk; Earlier in the fight, Hades absorbs a bunch of souls. Then Kratos absorbs Hades’ soul. And then all the souls Hades absorbed fly out of his body and across the Underworld, with some even turning on their former master. Kratos explicitly did not absorb the same souls that Hades did; Even ignoring the very blatant contradiction at play here, nothing even suggests this was the case to begin with.

As for Kratos having access to every one of Hades’ powers, and the powers of every single soul he absorbed, that’s also dubious. Bruno’s cited statement here reads “I suppose that as opposed to Hades, Kratos needs to have the hooks in his possession to maintain control of all the trapped souls. Those were lost in the battle with Zeus. Otherwise Kratos would need to carry not only Hades but all enemy souls.” Bruno’s statement is a bit ambiguous, but one thing he does not say is anything about using the powers of trapped souls, only maintaining control over them. The second source cited here states that "Kratos doesn't gain many vastly different powers by using the Claws of Hades...", which flatly contradicts the statement it is being cited to support. Additionally, Bruno’s statement only says “all enemy souls,” which suggests that soul ownership would not transfer over with the Blades of Hades, but would rather be predicated upon Kratos' actions with them. Are all enemies of Hades enemies of Kratos?
Very obvious, agreed.

All of Ares’ Powers [Kratos’ God Key]

It is assumed that Kratos inherited all of Ares’ abilities after assuming the mantle of the god of war. There is no citation for this, nor is there anything to suggest that the title of “god” gives one access to all the abilities of whoever held that title previously. The CRT this addition was from also cites nothing and just insists Kratos should have these powers. Nobody called the OP out on this.
Yeah, this would need to be justified far better. Agree with the removal.

Durability Negation [Bifrost Magic]

Users of Bifrost magic can coat people in Bifrost, which then detonates if the target is struck again. Explosions do not negate durability, even if they’re tanked at point blank.
Yet again, exceptionally straightforward. Agreed.
 
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