The Glorious Return of 8-C Captain America (and some others, I guess)

[LordTracer]

@KLOL506 did a recalc of Bucky tanking a grenade launcher and got a result of 0.272 tons, which is 8-C. This affects quite a few characters, which can be found in the sandbox below.

LordTracer/Marvel 9-A to 8-C

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also noted in the sandbox, Magik’s 9-A and Iron Man Model 2’s 8-C are both wonky. Magik has no justification whatsoever, and the Model 2 scales to a statement of being able to survive a factory exploding, which could be 9-A (like all of its other feats).

Unless someone can find physical feats for Magik, she should be knocked down to Unknown, and unless a calc is made for the Model 2, it should lose its 8-C and just scale to 9-A.

So to summarize, 9-A characters that scale to Winter Soldier are upgraded to 8-C. 9-A characters that upscale from 9-B+ characters remain the same. Magik goes from 9-A to Unknown and Iron Man Model 2 goes from 9-A, possibly 8-C to just 9-A.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I agree

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Agreed

 

[KLOL506]

Looks fine.

We really need to look for more feats for the Cap/Wolverine tier people

 

[Confluctor]

Doesn't Cyclops downscale from Wolverine? Iirc in schism or the event after that, they fought physically and, while Cyke was weaker, he was still holding up decently. But will recheck when I find it again.

Also whatever happens to the calc, this sandbox should probably be added it to verse page. Or a similar one. It should help simplify scaling

 

[LordTracer]

Doesn't Cyclops downscale from Wolverine? Iirc in schism or the event after that, they fought physically and, while Cyke was weaker, he was still holding up decently. But will recheck when I find it again.

If you’re willing to find that, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Confluctor]

Cyclops VS Wolverine (Schism)

From – Schism #4

comicnewbies.com

Found this one so far. But this isn't what I am thinking of. But he has some nice durability stuff here.

 

[KLOL506]

Doesn't Cyclops downscale from Wolverine? Iirc in schism or the event after that, they fought physically and, while Cyke was weaker, he was still holding up decently. But will recheck when I find it again.

Also whatever happens to the calc, this sandbox should probably be added it to verse page. Or a similar one. It should help simplify scaling

Something something actual explanation pages are required to explain stuff like this or so, don't ask me why

 

[Antvasima]

Is a single feat sufficiently consistent to base a verse-wide upgrade on though, at least for a verse as inconsistent as Marvel?

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @Alonik @The_Impress

What do you think?

 

[LordTracer]

Actually, we already have an 8-C feat from Cable that’s being used, and everyone that scales to Bucky’s calc (aside from Bucky himself) already downscales from Cable’s feat. So if anything, this makes 8-C more consistent.

 

[KLOL506]

Actually, we already have an 8-C feat from Cable that’s being used, and everyone that scales to Bucky’s calc (aside from Bucky himself) already downscales from Cable’s feat. So if anything, this makes 8-C more consistent.

Which issue is the Cable feat from?

 

[LordTracer]

Which issue is the Cable feat from?

I have no idea tbh

 

[The_Impress]

I will say it's preferable if we get more 8-C feats :v

But yeah there is the Cable calc and this one in question.

 

[Antvasima]

Actually, we already have an 8-C feat from Cable that’s being used, and everyone that scales to Bucky’s calc (aside from Bucky himself) already downscales from Cable’s feat. So if anything, this makes 8-C more consistent.

Okay. Thank you for the information.

 

[Confluctor]

Which issue is the Cable feat from?

Cable Vol 1 60

 

[LordTracer]

I will say it's preferable if we get more 8-C feats :v

Oh, I definitely agree with that.

 

[Antvasima]

So how many calculations of roughly this scale do we have for Winter Soldier-level Marvel characters?

 

[The_Impress]

Only two, like before, argument was that 8-C used to be the perfect middleground to account for the characters between Daredevil tier (which used to be 9-A) and Spider-Man tier (High 8-C) in addition to justify the ratings in addition to the two feats.

Now that Daredevil tier's 9-B tho... it's harder to argue for that being the case

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so what do you think that we should do here?

 

[The_Impress]

Probably get more calcs before doong anything, ig. 4 to 5 range is fine.

Like I think genuinely they have more 9-A consistency than 8-C given the last few times we did a feat collecting round.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems reasonable.

 

[LordTracer]

Only two, like before, argument was that 8-C used to be the perfect middleground to account for the characters between Daredevil tier (which used to be 9-A) and Spider-Man tier (High 8-C) in addition to justify the ratings in addition to the two feats.

Technically, 8-C is still a middle ground tier, because we still have quite a few 9-A characters.

 

[The_Impress]

Technically, 8-C is still a middle ground tier, because we still have quite a few 9-A characters.

Baseline 9-A though :V

 

[LordTracer]

Bump

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I'm with agreement with Impress. I know very little about Marvel comics so correct me if I am wrong, but given the extensive publication of Marvel series, with everything and all, I'd rather review a few more feats before changing tiers because of one single feat.

Ofc, if it is just fixing the result of a calc, I think it is reasonable to do so, but we need more calcs.

 

[Antvasima]

I'm with agreement with Impress. I know very little about Marvel comics so correct me if I am wrong, but given the extensive publication of Marvel series, with everything and all, I'd rather review a few more feats before changing tiers because of one single feat.

Ofc, if it is just fixing the result of a calc, I think it is reasonable to do so, but we need more calcs.

Yes, agreed.

 

[LordTracer]

I really wish someone had brought this issue up before I posted the CRT, considering that I did show everyone the sandbox in the Marvel discussion thread.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I really wish someone had brought this issue up before I posted the CRT, considering that I did show everyone the sandbox in the Marvel discussion thread.

My apologies, Marvel is a bit out of my depth.

But as I said, as this is just a fix, I am fine with applying the changes as a provisory measure until we can evaluate more feats.

 

[LordTracer]

My apologies, Marvel is a bit out of my depth.

Oh, you’re fine. I agree that we should get more feats, I would’ve just preferred to have solved that issue before the CRT was made.

 

[Confluctor]

If the calc is invalid, why not just apply this now and then if new feats come through, then change it to that?

 

[LordTracer]

If the calc is invalid, why not just apply this now and then if new feats come through, then change it to that?

That works for me.

 

[Antvasima]

I really wish someone had brought this issue up before I posted the CRT, considering that I did show everyone the sandbox in the Marvel discussion thread.

My apologies about that.

If the calc is invalid, why not just apply this now and then if new feats come through, then change it to that?

Well, I trust your sense of judgement, but can you elaborate a bit regarding your reasoning please?

 

[Confluctor]

Well, I trust your sense of judgement, but can you elaborate a bit regarding your reasoning please?

The problem is, the old calc is invalid, which means we can't use it. And it will cause issues and people will get confused. Now there are no other calcs these guys can scale to, so changing it for the time being should be fine. Think of it as a temporary fix/rating. Now if more feats are found at a level below, then can always go back down to that level - ofc if it's consistent.

Right now, a bunch of these characters have wrong calcs linked which will end up looking weird and might cause some issues.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Well there's this Cap KE calc that's 9-A

 

[Antvasima]

The problem is, the old calc is invalid, which means we can't use it. And it will cause issues and people will get confused. Now there are no other calcs these guys can scale to, so changing it for the time being should be fine. Think of it as a temporary fix/rating. Now if more feats are found at a level below, then can always go back down to that level - ofc if it's consistent.

Right now, a bunch of these characters have wrong calcs linked which will end up looking weird and might cause some issues.

Okay. That makes sense. I agree with you then.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Actually Cap currently downscales to 9-A+ anyway and Bucky then downscales to 9-A. It's probably fine to leave it as is until we find more feats.

 

[Antvasima]

Actually Cap currently downscales to 9-A+ anyway and Bucky then downscales to 9-A. It's probably fine to leave it as is until we find more feats.

Can you also elaborate please?

 

[Confluctor]

Well there's this Cap KE calc that's 9-A

So I assume with this the scaling will work like this;

Caps shield > another character who tanks it > if Cap fights them, cap will scale > then whoever harms cap scales?

Note; > = scaling instead of greater than

 

[LordTracer]

Actually Cap currently downscales to 9-A+ anyway and Bucky then downscales to 9-A. It's probably fine to leave it as is until we find more feats.

Bucky isn’t downscaling from anything, he’s scaling to his feat, which is now 8-C.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

If the calc is invalid, why not just apply this now and then if new feats come through, then change it to that?

Yeah, that's what I suggested.