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The EMS Duel: Madara Uchiha VS Sasuke Uchiha (GRACE)

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TauanVictor

TauanVictor

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Madara Uchiha VS Sasuke Uchiha​

  • Fight Location: Konohagakure
  • Starting Distance: 10 Meters
  • Both in-character
  • Equalized speed
  • Alive Madara and Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke was used
Madara: 8 (@XSOULOFCINDERX, @Fastestthingalive50, @Shadyboi0, @LordTracer, @ElixirBlue, @KingTempest, @Popted2, @Bernkastelll)
Sasuke:
Inconclusive:

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Honestly people are sleeping just a little on Sasuke. Madara would win no doubt, but it would be a battle he remembers. Sasuke is very tactical and honestly uses tactics better in battle than Madara. He also has a perfect Susanoo of his own given this
Could EMS Sasuke use the Perfect Susanoo? - Quora

Also some will say Naruto only had half of Kurama, but Minato gave Naruto his chakra earlier on so Naruto's Avatar was essentially just 100% Kurama.
Naruto Chapter 648 Page 8
Naruto Chapter 648 Page 9

Madara's PS still should be stronger based on feats, but by an unquantifiable amount. This is probably wank by Kishimoto to make him and Naruto seem equal, but Sasuke with likely a weaker amp then SM was shown as relative to 100% BSM Naruto before awakening the PS. This would technically mean EMS Sasuke>>BM Naruto, which doesn't really make sense given him being super jealous of Naruto and shown as relative to mkcm Naruto just prior, but if you want to say that then it would make him and Madara relative.

Still, given Madara's statement about Sasuke not being in his league, and being more experienced, with more stamina, durability, and being more practiced with fighting Uchiha gives the fight to Madara even highballing Sasuke to the absolute max.
 
Didnt madara plan the entire war? Most of which happened pretty much perfectly as he anticipated, and most of the events happened when he was dead soooo
 
Beezlebuth said:
Rough, not even close honestly, madara stomps
Click to expand...
And why exactly does he stomp rather than win?
KingTempest said:
50 quintillion iq play against Obito's entire life
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I specifically said "in battle," because I knew people would bring up his mastermind schemes. Madara tends to use his overwhelming strength to fight enemies rather than ninja tactics. Against Hashirama all he was ever shown using was Susanoo and Kurama and basic cqc. The only time he really thought in battle was briefly against Six Paths Sasuke breaking down amenitojikara.
Bernkastelll said:
chad_meme.jpg










Madara takes this kinda easily, didnt it even happend in canon?
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1 Rinnegan SM Madara>>EMS Madara
Beezlebuth said:
Didnt madara plan the entire war? Most of which happened pretty much perfectly as he anticipated, and most of the events happened when he was dead soooo
Click to expand...
doesn't apply in a fight
 
GokuSparkle said:
And why exactly does he stomp rather than win?

I specifically said "in battle," because I knew people would bring up his mastermind schemes. Madara tends to use his overwhelming strength to fight enemies rather than ninja tactics. Against Hashirama all he was ever shown using was Susanoo and Kurama and basic cqc. The only time he really thought in battle was briefly against Six Paths Sasuke breaking down amenitojikara.

1 Rinnegan SM Madara>>EMS Madara

doesn't apply in a fight
Click to expand...
I was writing this super long list of things but I didnt want to burden you or even just waste time so ill shorten it.

Also, please remember that we dont know much about ems madara other than statements and flashbacks, so ill use those and some edo feats taking in mind the buffs he gets from it and that form.

1. The kage fight, yes it's MS sasuke, but both people do it, and edo madara is significantly weakened compared to his alive self considering he fought edo hashirama for like an hour before being it ended with a tie, compared to the three day/night fight with him when they are alive. Just comparing the two battles alone, both in a weaker form than this battle states, madara does insanely better. Almost casually killing the kage (although with hashirama cells) but then using his own perfect susanoo to one shot them.

2. Although this is INSANE, isnt madara very confident in ability to take the the juubi from obito, someone itachi wouldnt dare fight, as edo? It takes naruto and sasuke (with naruto easily carrying) to defeat obito with the help of others, yet edo madara was more than certain he could do it himself. It wasnt even according to his plan, he cursed obito to not be able to and then it got destroyed, and in the midst of battle against EVERY ninja, he was like "Ill just have to take it then."

3. Madara knows MUCH more jutsu, overwhelming experience, toys with sasuke then stabs him (which is alive one rinnegan sure, but this is in unison with edo tobirama, who should know that madara would not be falling for FTG, and just fell from the sky at him, a pretty crappy plan for the guy who's in charge of the entire thing.

There might be more, but there isnt much I can pull from feats other than the obvious "can ems sasuke defeat a hashirama?" Who can tank a more experienced higher stats uchiha with a bigger badder susanoo mixed with kurama (full by the way) for 3 days only for it to go according to plan for madara to take his cells and revive himself later. But that isnt very nice
 
Wait, why is this even a discussion? Aside from the fact that EMS Sasuke is weaker than Tobirama’s single finger, what exactly is stopping Madara from whipping out the Perfect Susano’o?

Or, since it’s not restricted for some reason, what stops Madara from summoning Kurama and using the Majestic Attire?

Madara has an unreasonably massive AP advantage, as well as Tier 6 summons/techniques, which Sasuke has pretty much no answer to besides Amaterasu. Madara already said it perfectly, Sasuke doesn’t even come close to his level.
 
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Beezlebuth said:
I was writing this super long list of things but I didnt want to burden you or even just waste time so ill shorten it.

Also, please remember that we dont know much about ems madara other than statements and flashbacks, so ill use those and some edo feats taking in mind the buffs he gets from it and that form.

1. The kage fight, yes it's MS sasuke, but both people do it, and edo madara is significantly weakened compared to his alive self considering he fought edo hashirama for like an hour before being it ended with a tie, compared to the three day/night fight with him when they are alive. Just comparing the two battles alone, both in a weaker form than this battle states, madara does insanely better. Almost casually killing the kage (although with hashirama cells) but then using his own perfect susanoo to one shot them.

2. Although this is INSANE, isnt madara very confident in ability to take the the juubi from obito, someone itachi wouldnt dare fight, as edo? It takes naruto and sasuke (with naruto easily carrying) to defeat obito with the help of others, yet edo madara was more than certain he could do it himself. It wasnt even according to his plan, he cursed obito to not be able to and then it got destroyed, and in the midst of battle against EVERY ninja, he was like "Ill just have to take it then."

3. Madara knows MUCH more jutsu, overwhelming experience, toys with sasuke then stabs him (which is alive one rinnegan sure, but this is in unison with edo. tobirama, who should know that madara would not be falling for FTG, and just fell from the sky at him, a pretty crappy plan for the guy who's in charge of the entire thing.

There might be more, but there isnt much I can pull from feats other than the obvious "can ems sasuke defeat a hashirama?" Who can tank a more experienced higher stats uchiha with a bigger badder susanoo mixed with kurama (full by the way) for 3 days only for it to go according to plan for madara to take his cells and revive himself later. But that isnt very nice
Click to expand...
EMS Sasuke could also easily beat the kage too, even without the PS which Madara apparently needed when he was pressed by the kage combo. If Madara had been trying from the beginning he also probably wouldn't have needed the PS, but that doesn't show large superiority anyways. But if he needs it Sasuke can just pull out his perfect susanoo.
Could EMS Sasuke use the Perfect Susanoo? - Quora

Ok but that was with Hashirama's SM. He specifically said he would need to absorb Hashirama's SM before he stood even a chance against Juubito. Also Hashirama saying Unstable Juubito is stronger than him doesn't make Madara's chances look too good. And what does Edo Itachi have to do with this? He is neither near Juubito's level nor did he say that.

Hiruzen knows way more jutsu and is way more experienced than Madara, so I guess Hiruzen stomps Madara? Tobirama got immobilized before Sasuke entered, so no they didn't tag team. Also how else would Sasuke descend from the bird?

Madara can't beat Hashirama either so not sure where that comes from.

Again btw, I'm not arguing Sasuke would win, I just don't think it'd be an EASY battle for Madara. It'd be mid to possibly high diff, especially if Sasuke uses his advantages like Amaterasu and possibly wings on his Susanoo and plans.
 
LordTracer said:
Wait, why is this even a discussion? Aside from the fact that EMS Sasuke is weaker than Tobirama’s single finger, what exactly is stopping Madara from whipping out the Perfect Susano’o?

Or, since it’s not restricted for some reason, what stops Madara from summoning Kurama and using the Majestic Attire?

Madara has an unreasonably massive AP advantage, as well as Tier 6 summons/techniques, which Sasuke has pretty much no answer to besides Amaterasu. Madara already said it perfectly, Sasuke doesn’t even come close to his level.
Click to expand...
Him being shook doesn't mean he's weaker. And if Madara used a PS, Sasuke will just use his. Already showed a scan of him using PS twice.

Now that would really not be good. Maybe if Sasuke used Amaterasu on Kurama before Madara has a chance to wrap Susanoo around him Kurama'd be incinerated, but otherwise Sasuke is ******.

At least 7-A vs At least High 7-A doesn't seem like too big a difference. And Amaterasu and Perfect Susanoo are both tier 6 techniques from Sasuke. And also that statement is good supporting evidence, but it's not proof he'd stomp with no effort.
 
I'd say Sasuke takes this pretty easily.

He scales to Itachi who Hashirama admits is a better ninja than him, and we all know that means Itachi>Hashirama as there are no other possible explanations for such statement.
So Sasuke~>Itachi>Hashirama>Madara.

🗿 🗿 🗿 🗿 🗿 🗿 🗿 🗿 🗿 🗿 🗿
 
GokuSparkle said:
EMS Sasuke could also easily beat the kage too, even without the PS which Madara apparently needed when he was pressed by the kage combo. If Madara had been trying from the beginning he also probably wouldn't have needed the PS, but that doesn't show large superiority anyways. But if he needs it Sasuke can just pull out his perfect susanoo.
Could EMS Sasuke use the Perfect Susanoo? - Quora

Ok but that was with Hashirama's SM. He specifically said he would need to absorb Hashirama's SM before he stood even a chance against Juubito. Also Hashirama saying Unstable Juubito is stronger than him doesn't make Madara's chances look too good. And what does Edo Itachi have to do with this? He is neither near Juubito's level nor did he say that.

Hiruzen knows way more jutsu and is way more experienced than Madara, so I guess Hiruzen stomps Madara? Tobirama got immobilized before Sasuke entered, so no they didn't tag team. Also how else would Sasuke descend from the bird?

Madara can't beat Hashirama either so not sure where that comes from.

Again btw, I'm not arguing Sasuke would win, I just don't think it'd be an EASY battle for Madara. It'd be mid to possibly high diff, especially if Sasuke uses his advantages like Amaterasu and possibly wings on his Susanoo and plans.
Click to expand...
You're picking pieces of arguments and seperating them but ill explain anyway.

1. He already stated he wasnt trying multiple times in the fight and he clearly announces when he does, one shots them. Also, ems sasuke does NOT have perfect susanoo, his susanoo is one tier higher than the one he shows against itachi and danzo, his susanoo simply grew legs. His perfect susanoo is only shown when he has the rinnegan. Plus, saying he would win without feats isnt an argument, at least elaborate.

2. Unstable juubito is still ridiculous, looking at an incompletely 10 tails makes naruto shake in his boots. And even if he needed more of hashirama cells, a weaker variant of madara was still sure he could take out juubito with the entire ally force harassing him, which includes sasuke? Definitely included kcm2 naruto, someone who is stronger than sasuke. And im saying itachi was scared of obito even when he was known as tobi, he simply lacks the feats as ems or ms to compare to someone even weaker.

3. Hiruzen knows more sure, but he isnt more experienced. Madara fought in a longer war from birth, and ended the war around the same time hiruzen got out. Not only that, madara fights against arguably the strongest shinobi ever to exist multiple times. And implying my entire point was "experience and jutsu wins." Is idiotic, not only did NOTHING i said suggest I meant that, I also said he had higher stats, better feats and even full kyuubi. And it's still a wack plan, considering he planned more to attack his brother who he didnt realize was the good guy from the start, but neglected to plan anything at all. Not very smart.

4. Madara cant beat hashirama? But he does... madara lives after their last battle, which was his entire plan, he needed the cells, and the rinnegan to finish IT, using izanagi after death to make sure it happens. He could have used it once hashirama came behind him and stabbed him. But sure that isnt directly winning, when they fought as edo's they both restricted each other, and madara resisted it, usinf long distance jutsu while being affected by sealing and revived himself, he won that battle.

It is an easy battle, he has more experience from countless years of war, battling against one of the strongest beings to ever exist multiple times, more jutsu which have a shown a stronger AP, higher stats, and has the full 9 tails with a confirmed better visual prowess. Being able to differientiate shadow clones with his eye that sasuke said he could do too but was immedaitely contradicted in his last battle. That was with rinnegan too.
 
GokuSparkle said:
At least 7-A vs At least High 7-A doesn't seem like too big a difference. And Amaterasu and Perfect Susanoo are both tier 6 techniques from Sasuke. And also that statement is good supporting evidence, but it's not proof he'd stomp with no effort.
Click to expand...
Actually, that is a massive difference, if you actually look at the numbers. Sasuke is 600 megatons while Madara is 2.3 gigatons, aka, 2300 megatons. That means Madara’s AP is nearly QUADRUPLE that of Sasuke’s.

Also Amaterasu doesn’t have a tier, and Sasuke’s Susano’o is not Tier 6, because that is not on his profile. EMS Sasuke is only Tier 6 with Jūgo’s Cursed Seal, which he does not have here.

Madara AP stomps by flexing.
 
Beezlebuth said:
You're picking pieces of arguments and seperating them but ill explain anyway.

1. He already stated he wasnt trying multiple times in the fight and he clearly announces when he does, one shots them. Also, ems sasuke does NOT have perfect susanoo, his susanoo is one tier higher than the one he shows against itachi and danzo, his susanoo simply grew legs. His perfect susanoo is only shown when he has the rinnegan. Plus, saying he would win without feats isnt an argument, at least elaborate.

2. Unstable juubito is still ridiculous, looking at an incompletely 10 tails makes naruto shake in his boots. And even if he needed more of hashirama cells, a weaker variant of madara was still sure he could take out juubito with the entire ally force harassing him, which includes sasuke? Definitely included kcm2 naruto, someone who is stronger than sasuke. And im saying itachi was scared of obito even when he was known as tobi, he simply lacks the feats as ems or ms to compare to someone even weaker.

3. Hiruzen knows more sure, but he isnt more experienced. Madara fought in a longer war from birth, and ended the war around the same time hiruzen got out. Not only that, madara fights against arguably the strongest shinobi ever to exist multiple times. And implying my entire point was "experience and jutsu wins." Is idiotic, not only did NOTHING i said suggest I meant that, I also said he had higher stats, better feats and even full kyuubi. And it's still a wack plan, considering he planned more to attack his brother who he didnt realize was the good guy from the start, but neglected to plan anything at all. Not very smart.

4. Madara cant beat hashirama? But he does... madara lives after their last battle, which was his entire plan, he needed the cells, and the rinnegan to finish IT, using izanagi after death to make sure it happens. He could have used it once hashirama came behind him and stabbed him. But sure that isnt directly winning, when they fought as edo's they both restricted each other, and madara resisted it, usinf long distance jutsu while being affected by sealing and revived himself, he won that battle.

It is an easy battle, he has more experience from countless years of war, battling against one of the strongest beings to ever exist multiple times, more jutsu which have a shown a stronger AP, higher stats, and has the full 9 tails with a confirmed better visual prowess. Being able to differientiate shadow clones with his eye that sasuke said he could do too but was immedaitely contradicted in his last battle. That was with rinnegan too.
Click to expand...
It is a fact Ohnoki erased 25 Susanoos. It is also a fact that at the moment Madara underestimated them and they used their combo to prevent him from absorbing or escaping, he would've lost if he didn't have the PS. Attitude is an important aspect in fights to consider. And did you see my scan? You can clearly see that's the perfect susanoo. It has the diamond and the shoulder pads. And I mean he can amaterasu spam the kage and is faster than them all even Ay at this stage.

Madara being sure doesn't mean he was right. There's no reason to assume he'd be on that level when he's only Low 6-B with the PS. This site accepts SM as a 10x amp roughly, so he'd only be 6-B with SM. And Madara could've thought the alliance would team up with him since Juubito was a greater threat. And when was Itachi scared of Obito anyways?

Hiruzen fought in 3 great wars. And he has all the things you listed, but those advantages are not enough to make it stomp worthy. Especially not Kurama when Gyuki and the Juubi were injured by Amaterasu. Sasuke vs Bijuu really isn't a good match up because of that one move. And I'm confused by your last statement. Elaborate?

As EMS Madara he never won a direct battle. Besides, Hashirama spent a lot of chakra using SS which left him panting.

Those are again reasons he wins. Having a long list of advantages on its own doesn't guarantee a stomp. The value of those advantages also matters. For example having more experience is a good advantage but not a deal breaker, same with Kurama since Sasuke has ways to deal with him. The stat advantage is there, but not insurmountable. And when did Sasuke say that and fail?
LordTracer said:
Actually, that is a massive difference, if you actually look at the numbers. Sasuke is 600 megatons while Madara is 2.3 gigatons, aka, 2300 megatons. That means Madara’s AP is nearly QUADRUPLE that of Sasuke’s.

Also Amaterasu doesn’t have a tier, and Sasuke’s Susano’o is not Tier 6, because that is not on his profile. EMS Sasuke is only Tier 6 with Jūgo’s Cursed Seal, which he does not have here.

Madara AP stomps by flexing.
Click to expand...
With at leasts. And since EMS Sasuke grew during the war, there's grounds for him being close. Especially him being compared to KCM 1.5 and KCM2 Naruto.

Amaterasu has damaged tier 6 people on multiple occassions, and it damaging much stronger opponents is accepted on his page. As for susanoo, he has the PS, so that makes him tier 6.

Even a 4x difference isn't nearly enough to do that.
 
GokuSparkle said:
With at leasts. And since EMS Sasuke grew during the war, there's grounds for him being close. Especially him being compared to KCM 1.5 and KCM2 Naruto.
Click to expand...
No, it is not grounds for him being close. The ‘at least’ ratings do not change the numerical values that show Madara is nearly FOUR TIMES AS STRONG AS SASUKE, and would therefore AP stomp.
GokuSparkle said:
Amaterasu has damaged tier 6 people on multiple occassions, and it damaging much stronger opponents is accepted on his page.
Click to expand...
It is accepted as limited durability negation, yes. Madara also shrugged it off casually.
GokuSparkle said:
As for susanoo, he has the PS, so that makes him tier 6.
Click to expand...
No, it does not. You do not get to make up tiers that are not on the profile, and just being a Perfect Susano’o does not automatically make it Tier 6, that’s nonsensical.

And that’s besides the fact that Sasuke literally never uses the Perfect Susano’o on its own and the OP said that they are both in-character, so if it isn’t Sasuke’s first move in canon, it’s not his first move here.
GokuSparkle said:
Even a 4x difference isn't nearly enough to do that.
Click to expand...
That is just blatantly incorrect.
 
GokuSparkle said:
It is a fact Ohnoki erased 25 Susanoos. It is also a fact that at the moment Madara underestimated them and they used their combo to prevent him from absorbing or escaping, he would've lost if he didn't have the PS. Attitude is an important aspect in fights to consider. And did you see my scan? You can clearly see that's the perfect susanoo. It has the diamond and the shoulder pads. And I mean he can amaterasu spam the kage and is faster than them all even Ay at this stage.

Madara being sure doesn't mean he was right. There's no reason to assume he'd be on that level when he's only Low 6-B with the PS. This site accepts SM as a 10x amp roughly, so he'd only be 6-B with SM. And Madara could've thought the alliance would team up with him since Juubito was a greater threat. And when was Itachi scared of Obito anyways?

Hiruzen fought in 3 great wars. And he has all the things you listed, but those advantages are not enough to make it stomp worthy. Especially not Kurama when Gyuki and the Juubi were injured by Amaterasu. Sasuke vs Bijuu really isn't a good match up because of that one move. And I'm confused by your last statement. Elaborate?

As EMS Madara he never won a direct battle. Besides, Hashirama spent a lot of chakra using SS which left him panting.

Those are again reasons he wins. Having a long list of advantages on its own doesn't guarantee a stomp. The value of those advantages also matters. For example having more experience is a good advantage but not a deal breaker, same with Kurama since Sasuke has ways to deal with him. The stat advantage is there, but not insurmountable. And when did Sasuke say that and fail?

With at leasts. And since EMS Sasuke grew during the war, there's grounds for him being close. Especially him being compared to KCM 1.5 and KCM2 Naruto.

Amaterasu has damaged tier 6 people on multiple occassions, and it damaging much stronger opponents is accepted on his page. As for susanoo, he has the PS, so that makes him tier 6.

Even a 4x difference isn't nearly enough to do that.
Click to expand...
And ohnoki erased 25 susanoos, so what? They werent perfect? They were wood clones, a portion of the chakra from the original, and those clones were the same or stronger than what ems sasuke showed in terms of tier. And sure he was underestimating them, even though he had a motive for why. And IF he decided not to use the rinnegan ability at that moment, he could have easily just shielded himself with susanoo, and even when he was being attacked by it he did after, then won. It wouldnt have been a loss when the susanoo has shown the ability to block most of the combos attacks. And in terms of personality, he took it especially easy on them, pretty much saying that as he admitted to wanting to taunt tsunade and testing the strength of the kage, mocking them for being weak for kage too. Arguably the only time he had even went THAT easy on a group of people considering he casually drops two meteorites on two kage and hundreds of ninja, even a shadow clone of naruto, which was pretty much a motion of his finger, which was still considerably more power than most of the attacks he did on the kage. And the scan is a picture of which you assume it is the perfect susanoo because of characteristics? But immediately before it was multiple tiers off before logically being at that level. You're assuming his susanoo is jumping tiers because of characteristics and everything else contradicts is. You cannot really believe that is proof right?

Itachi not even attempting to attack obito until he was dead is a pretty good indicator that he didnt want to attack him. He knew he was dangerous, and tried restraining him by doing his bidding, obviously itachi wasnt trying to pick a fight. There's also different type of sage modes and variants like curse mark, i dont really care what the site says about it, they also have kakashi smarter than Madara iirc so id rather eat shit then listen to that. And it's REALLY hard to take you seriously if you think madara would have teamed up with the shinobi alliance, or thought they would be willing to to stop juubito. Honestly.

Sasuke said that during the last battle when he had the rinnegan. And even if he hits kurama with amaterasu, that doesnt immediately drop him, he has to fight it, and madara, madara already having a higher advantage. And how did hiruzen fight in three wars when he was only alive for the 2nd and 3rd one? Which, these wars were much more tame compared to the clan versus clan, living for years in constant war against stronger people. People like hashirama and saying he fought multiple 8 gates users.

I gotta skidaddle for now, ill come back if I see the notification tomorrow
 
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