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I mean yeah likely, its either that or ebony which is a questionable metal made of the literal blood of the embodiment of space itself, which isn't exactly easy to calculate and all.
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The Elder Scrolls Half-Time Revisions
- Thread starter FaxNovuuuuu
- Start date
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I mean its fantasy ain't exactly 1:1 to reality and all that.
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I was going to bring up Minecraft and Terraria as examples since they have 8-C iron and 5-C titanium. Plus even in comparison to their own metals they have metals that would contradict their real world counterparts strengths so yeah this isn’t new at all.
What I believe is Brass and Obsidian weights are our closest choices and Ebony is too alien to reliably use that as the main premise (and while the hammer looks very different it still is stated to be dwavern metal).
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I mean why even bring that up? we have low 2-C to high 1-B-low 1-A steel here in skyrim since we can just defy any and all logic and improve a basic steel sword to legendery++ and kill god.
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I still don’t think the Dovahkiin should be that tier, but even then it 100% won’t scale to his gear and entirely to them alone and godly artifacts.
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I still think he is through being more powerful than the artifacts that people have used to fight off daedric princes like the dawnbreaker being able to hold of nacturnal
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eh fair but there are plenty of other instances (mind ya I ain't saying dragon born is 1:1 to the princes just comparable)
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I mean their only anti feats are: the temple collapsing on top of them knocked them down during dawnguard which is mid game meaning it doesn't scale to full DB, mercer fray stabbing them while their paralyzed (which ignores any lore at all since vamps can get paralyzed by the poison even through their immune to all poison) which happens early on, not being able to kill barabas who is half of clavicus's power without the axe which happens early on (level 10) so not full strength DB (even though clav says we are nearly as strong as him if we have dragon souls absorbed), molag bal being able to trap us in the haunted house but its the same deal as barabas it happens early and finally sheo being able to take us into a mind of a mad man where we are powerless but that one is literally the first daedra quest we can do (level 7).
Most of the others aren't really anti feats.
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Levels are gameplay mechanics. The Daedra trap you at any point of the game. Plus the anti feat of mora one hit quitting Miraak so hard he was reduced to dust.
However, I’m just commenting to say my low end rough calc of the hammer throw for across Tamriel leads to monstrously low results. Since the hammer got their after the slow mass exodus of people meaning it would have taken over a day at least (though I used a week since it’s described as a long journey constantly for the people and majority of them are 100% normal people). So the hammer crashing in from the sky has higher speeds (I got 1 m/s for the hammer, in the across Tamriel end, assuming it took a week which lines up with the people out walking it there, so it would be pretty much the hammers weight divided by like a million).
However, I’m just commenting to say my low end rough calc of the hammer throw for across Tamriel leads to monstrously low results. Since the hammer got their after the slow mass exodus of people meaning it would have taken over a day at least (though I used a week since it’s described as a long journey constantly for the people and majority of them are 100% normal people). So the hammer crashing in from the sky has higher speeds (I got 1 m/s for the hammer, in the across Tamriel end, assuming it took a week which lines up with the people out walking it there, so it would be pretty much the hammers weight divided by like a million).
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Okay so reading up on everything about King Rourken, he doesn’t scale to other dwarven kings who could be higher tier since when they were doing stuff he just up and left. And I can’t find anything that would make the hammer throw fake, especially since he made spell breaker and had tonal magic so the guy definitely wasn’t a generic low tier.
So if going off the hammer crashing into the earth as a comet the rough estimate will be he’s 8-B (brass throw end is around 30 tons of tnt, but will be higher accounting for more of the hammer) and over 100 tons of force. So a pretty cool to have low tier for the verse and a good lifting strength feat for any of the high tiers that don’t scale the island push or immeasurable.
Better calc will be needed though, I definitely suggest anyone that knows pixel scaling to use the Skyrim version of the hammer as reference, every other part of my rough calc would be the same as the final version so I doubt it’ll change too much, just be a bit higher and more legitimate.
So if going off the hammer crashing into the earth as a comet the rough estimate will be he’s 8-B (brass throw end is around 30 tons of tnt, but will be higher accounting for more of the hammer) and over 100 tons of force. So a pretty cool to have low tier for the verse and a good lifting strength feat for any of the high tiers that don’t scale the island push or immeasurable.
Better calc will be needed though, I definitely suggest anyone that knows pixel scaling to use the Skyrim version of the hammer as reference, every other part of my rough calc would be the same as the final version so I doubt it’ll change too much, just be a bit higher and more legitimate.
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IF you haven't already, you should publish it in a blog, or port your math here so we may see it.
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I will just say what used for the rest of the calc, since the actual hammer being pixel measured will be the most important part of the blog.
It fell as a comet and the only speed we use on this site for those is 11 km/s we used to use a higher number if it was night (which it is in the feat) but I’ve seen staff say we don’t do that any more. I assume it fell from the line between earth and space so 100 kilometers. This is actually a low ball of the feat since the further it needs to travel the lower the results since it’s energy over distance. With the weight later on we can get the KE with the comet speed then you divide it by the distance traveled (in meters if I followed the calc I used as reference correctly). So it will be the KE / 100000.
This is what I did for the rough calc of the weight, but the hammer is definitely larger than a head in Skyrim plus the handle would need to be included:
“It’s bigger than a human head but for a very rough calc; I’ll use a human head size as reference. Human heads have a diameter of 61 cm.
The hammer is a rectangle but for a rough estimate (massive lowball) let’s have it be a square. It’s made of dwavern metal which is based off brass. But for a lowball I will assume it’s transmuted into ebony which is based off obsidian.
Volume: 227000 cm^3
Weight brass: 8.470 * 227000 = 1922690”
It fell as a comet and the only speed we use on this site for those is 11 km/s we used to use a higher number if it was night (which it is in the feat) but I’ve seen staff say we don’t do that any more. I assume it fell from the line between earth and space so 100 kilometers. This is actually a low ball of the feat since the further it needs to travel the lower the results since it’s energy over distance. With the weight later on we can get the KE with the comet speed then you divide it by the distance traveled (in meters if I followed the calc I used as reference correctly). So it will be the KE / 100000.
This is what I did for the rough calc of the weight, but the hammer is definitely larger than a head in Skyrim plus the handle would need to be included:
“It’s bigger than a human head but for a very rough calc; I’ll use a human head size as reference. Human heads have a diameter of 61 cm.
The hammer is a rectangle but for a rough estimate (massive lowball) let’s have it be a square. It’s made of dwavern metal which is based off brass. But for a lowball I will assume it’s transmuted into ebony which is based off obsidian.
Volume: 227000 cm^3
Weight brass: 8.470 * 227000 = 1922690”
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And the middle and High value?
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The low end was the obsidian value. It’s just using 2.55 grams as the weight per cubic centimeter. The middle end would have been the other metal that was brought up but that was before I found out that’s in verse and used by a different culture. A higher end could be using cloud height or when a comet can be easily seen in the atmosphere rather than assuming it came directly from space. But I think it makes sense with it clearing the continent and it low balls the feat well.
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again no he didn't, miraak got "turned to dust" after we ate his soul and mora only one tapped him after we brought him near death at which point we could've killed him with one strike man.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,329
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Literally this. Miraak also wasn't immediately killed by this either, he still had enough life in him to basically spit in our face about it too.
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Yea, mora only intervened after we beat miraak. If it was that easy as Keeweed is trying to make it seem mora would not need our help in the first place.
In alduin's case he is never stated to be weaker in lore nor by the people in charge, in fact they say he is a real threat and will eat the Kalpa. Then he goes to fight us in the mountain when he is at his strongest (Parthurnaxx was one shot to the ground) , we beat him and then he runs to eat souls to recuperate after the beating.
So dova does scale
As for weapons, things like Daedric metal & dragon should be up there possibly scaling as those daedric metal are the go to for even beings like the daedric princes, dragon are not normal to begin with, being basically shards of time and time machines.
In alduin's case he is never stated to be weaker in lore nor by the people in charge, in fact they say he is a real threat and will eat the Kalpa. Then he goes to fight us in the mountain when he is at his strongest (Parthurnaxx was one shot to the ground) , we beat him and then he runs to eat souls to recuperate after the beating.
So dova does scale
As for weapons, things like Daedric metal & dragon should be up there possibly scaling as those daedric metal are the go to for even beings like the daedric princes, dragon are not normal to begin with, being basically shards of time and time machines.
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Nothing says he was that weakened at all, also Mora directly said within that very conversation he didn’t need your help as Miraak was “nothing” to him there. It completely breaks the story a billion times over if Miraak is stronger than Mora since he’s trapped there and is trying to escape. And fails horribly as Mora one hit kills him.
I can think of many times in fiction were a physical blow obliterates someone yet it takes forever to happen. Like I-No and the Moonlord both evaporated from a physical attack but it takes forever for no reason. Same thing here, Miraak was annihilated by that hit. Even assuming it was a soul attack dragon born get their power from their soul so Mora overpowering that is just as bad.
The Dovahkiin can’t scale above literally every daedric prince to exist, that breaks every single interaction they have with you, including the whole dlc since mora has you as his slave / servant in the end too. Which makes no sense if you scale above Nocturnal and Jyggalag who scale above everyone else combined.
Deadric artifacts only scale to the Daedric when used by the Daedric prince. Weapons like Umbra consistently lost to mortals despite harming vile and stealing his power.
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cept you know miraak being beat on for a solid min by the dragon born or do ya think being nearly dead doesn't weaken a person? and also I didn't say he was stronger than mora but simply comparable a demi prince in a larger realm of oblivion type deal and consider this, if miraak did get our power he could flat out break free of mora and there would be nothing mora could do.
yeah because we prove to be stronger than him beat him to near death and mora swoops in to kill steal.
no you silly man, miraak doesn't disintegrate because of the hit, he falls down and starts falling apart like a dragon when we consume their souls, like have you play'd skyrim do you not remember what happens when we kill a fellow dov? something that miraak is.
it was not a soul attack you goof it was us consuming his soul after he died.
no he doesn't, we can leave, its in the lore, even the skaal tell us not to serve him we are not his slave or servant unless we chose and since we consumed miraak and have all his strength mora flat out can't hold us, since ya know miraaks whole plan for escape which mora did want to prevent was all about taking our power and combining it with his own, something we did. And again I am not saying dovahkin scales above all the princes only that he is comparable in strength nothing else.
or ya know being wielded by mortals to since mortal servants of daedra have used those artifacts to hold off (but not beat) princes as well.
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The entire point with Alduin is that he scales above all the Daedric princes. He resets them with everything else. So if the Dragonborn doesn’t scale beyond them he doesn’t scale to them at all nor Alduin.
Miraak was going to escape by avoiding Mora, Mora makes it very clear when he killed him that a direct approach is instant death. He’s trying to flee, not defeat Mora. Plus his plan 1000% wasn’t to steal your power and kill mora, he had you at his mercy and decided to just throw you out of them realm, he only fights you because you fight him first.
Merida literally pulls a death battle ant man on the Dovahkiin and shows them they work on a level they can’t even comprehend but I’m suppose to believe he scales somehow.
There have been far more times Daedric artifacts have been sneezed off by mortals with zero difficulty at all. Umbra at its prime got easily defeated by a guy and is defeated constantly throughout its story. It nukes the elder scrolls from orbit if you even get anyone close to saying random generic goobers with the artifacts are high 1-B or low 1-A when people with the artifacts die every other day in the elder scrolls constantly. Like how the ebony mail has also been stolen through killing the owner like a dozen times.
Though I got school work this week so let’s just see what staff think when the next revision comes along. In the meantime let’s get someone to calculate Miraak pushing an island (since it scales to random dragons as they also pushed it against him) and get a proper pixel calc for the hammer throw so we can make a quick lifting strength thread.
Miraak was going to escape by avoiding Mora, Mora makes it very clear when he killed him that a direct approach is instant death. He’s trying to flee, not defeat Mora. Plus his plan 1000% wasn’t to steal your power and kill mora, he had you at his mercy and decided to just throw you out of them realm, he only fights you because you fight him first.
Merida literally pulls a death battle ant man on the Dovahkiin and shows them they work on a level they can’t even comprehend but I’m suppose to believe he scales somehow.
There have been far more times Daedric artifacts have been sneezed off by mortals with zero difficulty at all. Umbra at its prime got easily defeated by a guy and is defeated constantly throughout its story. It nukes the elder scrolls from orbit if you even get anyone close to saying random generic goobers with the artifacts are high 1-B or low 1-A when people with the artifacts die every other day in the elder scrolls constantly. Like how the ebony mail has also been stolen through killing the owner like a dozen times.
Though I got school work this week so let’s just see what staff think when the next revision comes along. In the meantime let’s get someone to calculate Miraak pushing an island (since it scales to random dragons as they also pushed it against him) and get a proper pixel calc for the hammer throw so we can make a quick lifting strength thread.
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I mean dovahkin takes on aludin with a lot of help and the main parts that make dova scale to daedric princes is a couple of things like clavicus telling an early on dova that he is nearly as powerful as him (even if weakened being nearly as powerful as a 40% clav ain't nothing to sneeze at).
ah yes he is going to avoid mora, inside of mora..... HOW EXACTLY ARE YOU GOING TO AVOID SOMETHING THAT IS OMNIPRESENT? like do you know how daedric realms work? they are the daedric prince they are everywhere in their realm since they are their realm.
never said it was, it was simply to gain your power and break through apocripha all together, it will not kill mora it will simply allow miraak to leave (as he is soul trapped basically)
? what by pulling him into the sky? that ain't exactly a "beyond comprehension" level of power.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Also want to point out that Miraak directly states that Alduin is fodder to him even after acknowledging that the Dragonborn is really strong for beating the World Eater. This is also literally moments after he casually one-shots the Dragonborn so hard with a basic shock spell that they can't do anything afterwards, even allowing those fodder ass Seekers to reject them from Aprocypha.
Rakih_Elyan
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How about we back the scaling with Miraak and Alduin with actual scans?
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Kaal (ESO dragon DLC) managed to absorb incredible power, consisting primarily a dozen fellow dragons sealed within the Jode's Core as well as a lesser amount of lunar energy, before he was banished.
It’s worth noting that the Vestige can defeat Barbas, who has stolen most of Vivec’s power, and Sotha Sil’s shadow, which contains the majority of Sotha Sil’s power. This suggests the Vestige’s power is comparable to that of the tribunal. However, the Vestige is unable to counteract the life energy of a dozen dragons in Jode’s Core, even though it’s only a fraction of the total dozen dragon's energy.
We can find that the life essence available to TLDB easily outweighs all of the above cases, even surpasses Kaal’s actions. Yvara notes that Skyrim has more dragons than Elsweyr, with many buried underground. Solitude alone has three unrecorded tombs, suggesting hundreds of dragons, possibly over 500 based on map density.
So he has an incredible amount of energy far beyond that of Jode's Core (Which only had a dozen dragons or so), he can also see straight through and access the knowledge of the Black Book with no ill effects while the Vestige can be harmed by being exposed to the forbidden knowledge of the Black Book. (This is even Pointed out by neloth, when he is surprised/impressed we could look into the books and suffer no consequences)
Then on top of that the entire Dragonborn DLC plotline, with you growing so strong in power that ur soul/life force is enough that it can allow miraak to escape and Mora needs you to go into his own realm, his seat of power, so that u can defeat Miraak for him, and then only makes and appearance and attacks when we have already beaten his ass, only for us to then absorb the full power of miraak on top of our own.
It’s worth noting that the Vestige can defeat Barbas, who has stolen most of Vivec’s power, and Sotha Sil’s shadow, which contains the majority of Sotha Sil’s power. This suggests the Vestige’s power is comparable to that of the tribunal. However, the Vestige is unable to counteract the life energy of a dozen dragons in Jode’s Core, even though it’s only a fraction of the total dozen dragon's energy.
We can find that the life essence available to TLDB easily outweighs all of the above cases, even surpasses Kaal’s actions. Yvara notes that Skyrim has more dragons than Elsweyr, with many buried underground. Solitude alone has three unrecorded tombs, suggesting hundreds of dragons, possibly over 500 based on map density.
So he has an incredible amount of energy far beyond that of Jode's Core (Which only had a dozen dragons or so), he can also see straight through and access the knowledge of the Black Book with no ill effects while the Vestige can be harmed by being exposed to the forbidden knowledge of the Black Book. (This is even Pointed out by neloth, when he is surprised/impressed we could look into the books and suffer no consequences)
Then on top of that the entire Dragonborn DLC plotline, with you growing so strong in power that ur soul/life force is enough that it can allow miraak to escape and Mora needs you to go into his own realm, his seat of power, so that u can defeat Miraak for him, and then only makes and appearance and attacks when we have already beaten his ass, only for us to then absorb the full power of miraak on top of our own.
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XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,329
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Miraak and his four dragons' souls altogether since he consumed them to heal himself. Which reminds me, was that the effect of his shout or just the general effect of consuming a Dragon Soul?
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+ all the souls he absorbed during his war in the merethic era
Not sure, but it could be his shout
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just genereal effect, since the 4 word shout literally just stands for: "Zii-spirit, Los-is, mine-Dii, devour-Du" miraak basically forces their souls out and eats them on the spot and the healing comes from the devouring prosses, think of it in a way of a mod for the game "souls do things 2" consuming a dragon soul heals you and gives you a power boost and consuming a soul of a dragon born gives you a massive hyper boost.
HelloThere1089
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This thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere. No mods are showing up. Would y'all prefer if I started a TES general thread? Maybe the arguments need to be polished and presented again. Also are their no supporter mods for TES?
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The biggest TES mod is Ultima but he is also working on other things
HelloThere1089
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The Elder Scrolls General Discussion Thread
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Apologies for being late to mentioning it, but, technically, there is also this thread:
vsbattles.com
The Elder Scrolls Discussion Thread: RETURN FALSE Edition
xxxx0001010101010101xxxxx0111100101010111xx101010xxxx0101010100x0x0x00010x00x0x0HOURS Dreamsleeve VB-WS: Channel granted. ECMB-MRA: mnemonic daedron-capacitance memospore classification vBW2020fOMV Cogitocode: Through eyes bleached with the Fire of Revelation shall the Lunar God's Great Work...
HelloThere1089
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The mods should close this CRT tbh..
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Why is that?
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
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Because it's going nowhere. No mods are interested. OP has abandoned it etc.
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Tragic, but understandable, I suppose.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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We'll lose so many arguments and have to dig them back up all over again which no one wants to do. Seriously, there's a lot of shit that happened in this thread. 
HelloThere1089
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Whatever works then.
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