The Elder Scrolls Half-Time Revisions

[FaxNovuuuuu]

I'm pretty sure there are some revisions coming soon for Oblivion and the Tier for Aetherius but let's look at some other things before that happens

Nirn's Tier​

So off the bat, Nirn is rated as low 2-C due to the Earth-bones and the higher Dimensional nature of Nirn's oceans. However, there's more to Nirn than that. Nirn contains many parallel versions of it:

chosen to explore this relation of world to shadow, Azra was the first to realize that shadows were not a mere absence of light but a reflection of possible worlds created by forces in conflict. A light strikes a rock, and the shadow is a record of their clash, past, present and future.

Other conflicting forces produced less obvious shadows, fire and water, wind and rock, or nations at war.

With skill and patience, the shadows of all could be read, and patterns teased out, emphasized or eradicated.

Manipulating a shadow could, through contagion, manipulate the object or force which cast it.

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:First_Scroll_of_Shadow

So right off the bat, this is 2-C. However, there is more. These are in fact universes as "realms" refer to the planes of oblivion due to the nature of the towers. The number of these "Shadow realities" or Adjacent places was heavily alluded to being infinite in number. Raynor describes space and time as interconnected but with many different "threads" with no beginning or end:

The Vestige: Did you go back in time?

Raynor Vanos: Back isn't the right word for it. I understand so much more now than I once did. Don't think of time and space as a road upon which you travel, but rather a rope, or a cable. Many threads, all bound together with no beginning or end.

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Raynor_Vanos

So this should be grounds for 2-C possibly 2-A. So there is also the topic of the temporal dimensions.. As we know the Mundus has infinite temporal dimensions, but a certain weirdo we meet in Skyrim alludes to the existence of 2-3 higher temporal dimensions, which could explain why there are continents that exist at different points in time:

You look to your left, you see one way. You look to your right, you see another. But neither is any harder than the opposite. But the Elder Scrolls... they look left and right in the stream of time. The future and past are as one: Sometimes they even look up. What do they see then? What if they dive in? Then the madness begins.

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Septimus_Signus
This also lines up with what we know about Y'ffre, who interprets the infinitely dimensioned time into the seas and sky:

"The sky mirrors the sea, and the sea also reflects its mirror. Day, night, and the places between are the realm of the sky, as Y'ffre interpreted the time-law Anui-el established within Nirn.

Thus, the sky bridges time and nature, and measures both."

https://pt.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Girnalin

With that being said it's possible that the 4th Dimensional oceans (that allow the time shenanigans with the continents) may be encompassed by a higher dimension that allows parallel versions of Tamriel versions of Tamriel/Nirn entirely. Vivec speaks of this in the sermons as disrupting the already normal non-cardinal points:

Vivec then watched as the slaves erupted into babble and breaking magic. They rattled their cages and sung out half-hymns that formed into forbidden and arcane knowledge. Litany fiends appeared and drank from the excess. Grabbers from the Adjacent Place came into the world sideways, the slave talking having disrupted the normal non-cardinal points.

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/thirty-six-lessons-vivec-sermon-twenty-six
So with this, if accepted Nirn would be 2-A possibly Low 1-C

Dovahkiin Upgrade​

Yes, just hear me out, I won't mention Alduin. Let's talk about the eye of Magnus, an Artifact of immeasurable power that was too dangerous to keep in the Mundus. Our favorite thalmor agent, Ancano was stated to harness the " full and incredible power" of the Eye. Ancano later states that he has the power to "unmake the world" (Mundus):

"You've come for me, have you?, You think I don't know what you're up to? You think I can't destroy you? The power to unmake the world at my fingertips, and you think you can do anything about it?"

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ancano
In the quest, everyone other than the Dovahkiin gets taken care of in one shot and you're the only one who can withstand its power. Yes, you can't harm him due to him being empowered by the literal God of Magic, your magical attacks will be negated obviously, but you're still able to tank hits and keep up with him, thus should scale. Even if we reject this we should give the Dovahkiin a key for the Staff of Magnus to be able to drain such power in the first place. There's also the whole dawn magicks thing with Ahzidal.
As we know Ahzidal was able to harness the power of the Dawn, this is the same power the Ayelids use to cause Void Nights, which basically removed the moons from the sky/brought them back

In 4E 98, the two moons, Masser and Secunda vanished. Within most of the Empire, this was viewed with trepidation and fear. In Elsweyr it was far worse. Culturally the moons are much more influential to the Khajiit. After two years of the Void Nights, the moons returned. The Thalmor announced that they had restored the moons using previously unknown Dawn Magicks, but it is unclear if they truly restored the moons or just took advantage of foreknowledge that they would return.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Great_War_(book)
Keep in mind that in the text Ahzidal's descent states that he "delved deeper into the arts than any before him" and that he "exhausted the lore" on the Ayelids Dawn Magicks (So he should be capable of the or at least comparable to the Void nights) and he didn't even stop at Dawn Magicks, but he also expanded to Dragon runes and even turned towards Oblivion, which brought him power and Madness:

Alone, he could do nothing. And so, he bided his time, delving deeper into his art than any before him. From the Dwemer, he learned the seven natures of metal and how to harmonize them. From the Ayleids, the ancient runes and dawn-magic even the elves had begun to forget. Among Falmer and Chimer and Altmer he traveled, taking what he could from each, and all the while plotting how he might turn that knowledge against them.

But he was not content. His craft had become his life, and his hunger for knowledge still gnawed at him, driving him to delve ever deeper. At long last, he exhausted the lore of the elves, but it was not enough. He sought the secrets of Dragon-runes, and won for himself a seat among their high priests, but it was not enough. And at length, he turned his gaze to the planes of Oblivion, and found there both power and madness.

So good old Ahzidal should not only scale to the Void Nights feat but should exceed them given the power he gained from the dragons and Oblivion.
Now, I am fairly certain this wiki rates the plane(t)s and moons as High 1-B due to the moons being the literal body parts of Lorkhan and his dual nature. Wulfarth was also able to shift the position of the moons with a shout, to which Wulfarth alone should be comparable with the Dovahkiin:

Seeing the ferocity of the Khajiiti warriors, Ra'Wulfharth could not bring himself to put them to death. Using the roar that Lorkhaj had given him, he spoke to Masser and Secunda, to move to their fullness in the sky. The Khajiiti warriors became Senche, but Lorkhaj stripped from them all reason.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Tale_of_Dro'Zira
Also, just a bit of supporting evidence, the god Tsun considers the Dovahkiin a worthy opponent, which would make more sense if he were High 1-B instead of Low 2-C:

I've waited long for such a worthy opponent."

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Tsun
TLDR The Dovahkiin should have an endgame key as High 1-B

Issues with Pelinal, Umaril, and Mankar​

Pelinal as of right now is rated as 4-A. This has problems because Pelinal both conquered all of Tamriel himself and forced Alkosh to intervene to save the Khajit:

“Pelinal Whitestrake supposedly conquered all of Tamriel by himself,” interrupted Xiomara.”

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/hallgerds-tale
With this, he should at least be comparable to the protagonists and the same with Umaril. As for Mankar, he's currently rated 4-C for creating Gaia Alata, however, this should not be his limit as creators of realms can change the shape and look of their realms at will and are reflections of their realm. Gaia Alata is a metaphor made manifest for the emblem of the Mythic Dawn. This is why it contains a singular star and it's always Dawn there. This feat should scale to any other dimension-creating feat if anything. Speaking of the dimensions, literally every dimension of Oblivion is described as infinite in size and I doubt the Xarxes gave Mankar less power than something like the Golden Path or Khul.

TLDR Pelinal, Umaril, CoC, and maybe Mankar should scale to the other protagonists.

Prisoner/Vestige add ons​

The vestige gained the power to weave the fabric of fate itself with the newest expansion pack:

Your mastery of weaving fate and abyssal water increases.

Warp fate when you gain or spend Crux.

Casting an Arcanist ability warps the weave of fate around you.

https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/arcanist
Thus they should have fate manipulation added to their abilities. The rest of the Prisoners should have probability manipulation added due to the comments from AIOS:

"Beginning entity analysis. Error. Entity exists outside known possipoints. Transitioning to general reception array.Hello."

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Aios
Portal creation:

Apocryphal Gate
Breach the world walls to create a portal at a target location. Its twin appears directly before you. Crossing the threshold allows you to teleport from one to the other for as long as the portals remain open. Apocryphal Gate generates Crux each time you teleport.

Summoning

The Unblinking Eye
Tear open the fabric of the Aurbis to summon a scion of Hermaeus Mora. This being casts forth a beam that rends asunder reality for 6 seconds and deals 1115 Magic Damage to enemies within 3 meters every 0.5 seconds. The scion’s beam can be repositioned by recasting The Unblinking Eye.

https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/arcanist/herald-of-the-tome
Durability Negation:

What they don’t know can kill them. Increase your Physical and Spell Penetration by 991 per Herald of the Tome ability slotted.

Statistics amp

Your attacks wound the mind with heretical knowledge, increasing damage dealt by Status Effects by 15% and Status Effect Chance by 75%.

Warp fate when you generate or consume Crux, increasing your Critical Damage and Critical Healing by 12% for 7 seconds.

You master the warp and weft of your very soul. When you are restored Magicka or Stamina, increase your Weapon and Spell Damage by 5% for 10 seconds.

Due to the Prisoner existing outside of possibility, time, causality, etc they should have such things added:

The Prisoner must see the door to their cell. They must gaze through the bars and perceive that which exists beyond causality. Beyond time. Only then can they escape."

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sotha_Sil
TLDR The Protagonists should have Acausality type 4 at least+ probability manipulation and resistance to time, causality, and probability manipulation

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Bump

 

[Abeastiry]

I'm pretty sure there are some revisions coming soon for Oblivion and the Tier for Aetherius but let's look at some other things before that happens

Nirn's Tier​

So off the bat, Nirn is rated as low 2-C due to the Earth-bones and the higher Dimensional nature of Nirn's oceans. However, there's more to Nirn than that. Nirn contains many parallel versions of it:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:First_Scroll_of_Shadow

So right off the bat, this is 2-C. However, there is more. These are in fact universes as "realms" refer to the planes of oblivion due to the nature of the towers. The number of these "Shadow realities" or Adjacent places was heavily alluded to being infinite in number. Raynor describes space and time as interconnected but with many different "threads" with no beginning or end:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Raynor_Vanos

So this should be grounds for 2-C possibly 2-A. So there is also the topic of the temporal dimensions.. As we know the Mundus has infinite temporal dimensions, but a certain weirdo we meet in Skyrim alludes to the existence of 2-3 higher temporal dimensions, which could explain why there are continents that exist at different points in time:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Septimus_Signus
This also lines up with what we know about Y'ffre, who interprets the infinitely dimensioned time into the seas and sky:

https://pt.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Girnalin

With that being said it's possible that the 4th Dimensional oceans (that allow the time shenanigans with the continents) may be encompassed by a higher dimension that allows parallel versions of Tamriel versions of Tamriel/Nirn entirely. Vivec speaks of this in the sermons as disrupting the already normal non-cardinal points:

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/thirty-six-lessons-vivec-sermon-twenty-six
So with this, if accepted Nirn would be 2-A possibly Low 1-C

Dovahkiin Upgrade​

Yes, just hear me out, I won't mention Alduin. Let's talk about the eye of Magnus, an Artifact of immeasurable power that was too dangerous to keep in the Mundus. Our favorite thalmor agent, Ancano was stated to harness the " full and incredible power" of the Eye. Ancano later states that he has the power to "unmake the world" (Mundus):

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ancano
In the quest, everyone other than the Dovahkiin gets taken care of in one shot and you're the only one who can withstand its power. Yes, you can't harm him due to him being empowered by the literal God of Magic, your magical attacks will be negated obviously, but you're still able to tank hits and keep up with him, thus should scale. Even if we reject this we should give the Dovahkiin a key for the Staff of Magnus to be able to drain such power in the first place. There's also the whole dawn magicks thing with Ahzidal.
As we know Ahzidal was able to harness the power of the Dawn, this is the same power the Ayelids use to cause Void Nights, which basically removed the moons from the sky/brought them back

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Great_War_(book)
Now, I am fairly certain this wiki rates the plane(t)s and moons as High 1-B due to the moons being the literal body parts of Lorkhan and his dual nature. Wulfarth was also able to shift the position of the moons with a shout:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Tale_of_Dro'Zira
Also, just a bit of supporting evidence, the god Tsun considers the Dovahkiin a worthy opponent, which would make more sense if he were High 1-B instead of Low 2-C:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Tsun
TLDR The Dovahkiin should have an endgame key as High 1-B

Issues with Pelinal, Umaril, and Mankar​

Pelinal as of right now is rated as 4-A. This has problems because Pelinal both conquered all of Tamriel himself and forced Alkosh to intervene to save the Khajit:

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/hallgerds-tale
With this, he should at least be comparable to the protagonists and the same with Umaril. As for Mankar, he's currently rated 4-C for creating Gaia Alata, however, this should not be his limit as creators of realms can change the shape and look of their realms at will and are reflections of their realm. Gaia Alata is a metaphor made manifest for the emblem of the Mythic Dawn. This is why it contains a singular star and it's always Dawn there. This feat should scale to any other dimension-creating feat if anything. Speaking of the dimensions, literally every dimension of Oblivion is described as infinite in size and I doubt the Xarxes gave Mankar less power than something like the Golden Path or Khul.

TLDR Pelinal, Umaril, CoC, and maybe Mankar should scale to the other protagonists.

Prisoner/Vestige add ons​

The vestige gained the power to weave the fabric of fate itself with the newest expansion pack:

https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/arcanist
Thus they should have fate manipulation added to their abilities. The rest of the Prisoners should have probability manipulation added due to the comments from AIOS:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Aios
Due to the Prisoner existing outside of possibility, time, causality, etc they should have such things added:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sotha_Sil
TLDR The Protagonists should have Acausality type 4 at least+ probability manipulation and resistance to time, causality, and probability manipulation

Honestly this all seems solid to me. If I'm not mistaken, I think the Prisoners already have Acausality type 4 on most of their pages, but other than that, this looks good.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Honestly this all seems solid to me. If I'm not mistaken, I think the Prisoners already have Acausality type 4 on most of their pages, but other than that, this looks good.

Ahhhh I overlooked the Acausality part on their profiles, whoopsie lol. Thank you tho! I’m new here so I don’t necessarily know how these things go. It seems no one who’s knowledgeable on TES is active or cares.

@Antvasima how do these things go? How many votes do I need to get something changed?

 

[KLOL506]

@Ultima_Reality

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Lmao is TES really this dead on Vsb?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Lmao is TES really this dead on Vsb?

You can go to staff profiles and ask them to review the thread with a link. They don't usually tune into CRTs if they're not asked to.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

You can go to staff profiles and ask them to review the thread with a link. They don't usually tune into CRTs if they're not asked to.

Appreciate the tip

 

[FinePoint]

I wish there wasn't so much packed into a single thread, to be honest.
I'll have to wait for some more involved people to comment on the nature of how the universe has been historically scaled on the wiki before making any statements about actual ratings, but I do immediately have some concerns about some of the evidence used here.

1.) Ancano - Is insane, and the epitome of ego. His claim that he could "unmake" the world in its entirety is both vague and unfounded. Even if accepted as true, though, that the Dragonborn scales to Ancano with the eye is also unfounded. The entire reason the Dragonborn has to make the long detour to get the staff is because he's completely helpless against Ancano without it, and cannot harm him in any way. Everyone in the room to some extent takes a 'hit' from Ancano when he expands the barrier, but obviously his goal wasn't to vaporize them, so it's hard to say.
The only point the Dragonborn can actually engage in combat with him, deliver and take hits- is after he already has the staff of Magnus. All that is to say, he clearly only scales while wielding it. I know it doesn't actually provide a defense boost in game, but it's canonically heavily implied that the staff is what equals out the fight, not the Dragonborn's raw power.
- TL;DR: even if the eye is however powerful, the Dragonborn doesn't scale to it without the staff.
That said, the presence of various godly artifacts seems to be rather glossed over in the profile itself, which is likely because they're all completely optional, so maybe some sort of key or note which includes all of them is warranted.

2) Tsun - Tsun finding the Dragonborn a "worthy opponent" does not imply he's equal to him. Tsun's entire purpose on that bridge is to fight warriors before they enter the halls, and if his measure of "worthy" was "has to be able to actually kill me" then most of the people in there wouldn't have gotten in. He even explicitly calls it a "test", not a deathmatch.

3) Septimus - is flat-out stated to be mad, and by the time you find him he's obsessed over an artifact he mistakes the identity of and doesn't recognize when he does see it. The only real service he provides is the location of an existing Elder Scroll and some niche Dwemer mechanism knowledge, other than that I don't trust his words as far as I can throw them. Not to mention, his words themselves are largely confusing on their own, and I don't see what about that quotes actually establishes "the existence of 2-3 higher temporal dimensions."

I've never played Online so I'll just abstain from that portion.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

@FinePoint

I wish there wasn't so much packed into a single thread, to be honest.

My bad lol but TES be TES.

Ancano - Is insane, and the epitome of ego. His claim that he could "unmake" the world in its entirety is both vague and unfounded

No, it's not, Both the Prima Guide and a member from the Psjiic order stated that the world was going to be unmade/at risk.
Quaranir:

What do we do now?

“The Eye has grown unstable. It cannot remain here, or else it may destroy this College and this world. It must be secured. Ancano’s actions prove that the world is not ready for such a thing. We shall safeguard it… for now. You now have the opportunity to maintain your College, and carry on with your lives. You have our gratitude, Arch-Mage.”

It was also causing tears in reality by just messing with it. Couple that with him harnessing the full power of the eye of Magnus.

Everyone in the room to some extent takes a 'hit' from Ancano when he expands the barrier, but obviously his goal wasn't to vaporize them, so it's hard to say.

His goal was to reshape the world/unmake it in his image. Also, only you and Toldfir (well your follower too but that doesn't count) went in there, and you led the charge. Literally, everyone else gets dealt with in one shot and paralyzed by Ancano aside from you the moment he activates its full power:


(0:56)

The only point the Dragonborn can actually engage in combat with him, deliver and take hits- is after he already has the staff of Magnus. All that is to say, he clearly only scales while wielding it.

The Staff grants you no amps, it just drains Magicka stamina and health, hence why it's referred to as a metaphysical battery.

I know it doesn't actually provide a defense boost in game, but it's canonically heavily implied that the staff is what equals out the fight, not the Dragonborn's raw power.

Everything in lore states that its just power nullification, even if you want to go this route the Dovahkiin fights a Dragon priest by the name of Morokei who is wielding the Staff of Magnus and Drains the Dovahkiin numerous times and he still withstands it and defeats the priest wielding it, so he’d still scale:

(2:05:11)
(2:19:55)
I should also mention that someone being invulnerable doesn't mean that the person fighting them does not scale in the context of TES. The Dovahkiin technically can't harm Alduin, yet his thu'um had surpassed his, and you can even kill Miraak before him to prove this. There's also a trend with Gods not being able to be damaged significantly due to their invulnerability to physical and magical harm, take Dagoth Ur for example who the Nerevarine still scales to, its just invulnerability, resistance to magic, and resilient immortality

Tsun finding the Dragonborn a "worthy opponent" does not imply he's equal to him.

I'm not saying he is equal to him as Aedric Gods are currently Low 1-A. I'm saying that a Berserker Warrior God like Tsun complementing the Dovahkiin's power should be noteworthy and that a High 1-B impressing a Low 1-A in a test is more plausible than a Low 2-C doing it.

Tsun's entire purpose on that bridge is to fight warriors before they enter the halls, and if his measure of "worthy" was "has to be able to actually kill me" then most of the people in there wouldn't have gotten in. He even explicitly calls it a "test", not a deathmatch.

While this is a really good argument, I highly doubt he would be foaming at the mouth over you being a worthy opponent to him, there's a big difference between being worthy enough to pass the test versus being worthy as an opponent to a god. He does not stop the test calling you worthy at that moment he's referencing you as being noteworthy to him as a direct opponent during battle. Anyway, you might be right on this portion and this is kind of a stretch which is why it's just supporting evidence

Septimus - is flat-out stated to be mad, and by the time you find him he's obsessed over an artifact he mistakes the identity of and doesn't recognize when he does see it.

From a limited standpoint sure, but he's also outright stated to be a master of the Nature of the Elder Scrolls by one of the smartest members at the college.
Urag:

“The “Ruminations” book is incomprehensible”

“Aye, that’s the work of Septimus Signus. He’s the world’s master of the nature of Elder Scrolls”.

The Elder Scrolls are quite literally incomprehensible to 99.999999% of mortals, so when you have some deep arcane knowledge that dives into "infinity itself" of course you are going to seem crazy to someone who isn't illuminated. Even ignoring Urag's quote for whatever reason his claims of there being more than one temporal dimension have some merit from the Augur of the Obscure who's a nigh omniscient trans-dimensional entity who has multiple dialogue options on high spatial and temporal dimensions on Nirn:
Augur

A breach near the sea! I do love the ocean. It’s a shame you can only see in three dimensions. All the quasi-tones and inverse number-forms .... Actually, I take it back—your meat-brain would explode if you saw this.”

You know I can see time in all directions? I see you as you are now, as you were before you were born, and as you’ll be after you’re dead all at once! You’re an adorable baby, mate. Less charming as a corpse

These directions/angles of time are increasingly non-linear:

Hmm. Breach nearby. I don’t know why you’re so intent on sealing them. Linear time is so overrated. Just imagine, you could die before you were even born! Wait ... that’s horrifying isn’t it? I’m sorry. Never mind.

So yea, there are extra temporal dimensions on Nirn

his words themselves are largely confusing on their own, and I don't see what about that quotes actually establishes "the existence of 2-3 higher temporal dimensions

He's saying that when you look “left” and to the “right” in the flow of time (The past and the future), but also “up,” and he then comments that they can “dive in” as well, which points to the existence of more than one temporal dimension at their disposal (Three, taking “left and right” as informing the temporal analogue of a x-axis, “up” a y-xis, and “diving in” possibly alluding to depth, and thus a z-axis. Include this with the Augur's quotes and its clear they are mentioning higher temporal dimensions of non-linear time.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

I guess instead of leaving a useless "bump" message I should explain the evidence of why the entire Mundus was at stake instead of just Nirn. The first bit of evidence is the Psjiic order themselves when they say the word "world" they mean Mundus as they deal with Mundus and Aurbic tier threats like the whole heat of transparent law situation.

“Do you know of Arteum?” the old man asked.”

“The island you Psijics come from,” Glim answered him.”

‘It was removed from the world once. Did you know that?”

“I did not.”

“Such things happen.”

“He nodded, more to himself, it seemed, than to Mere-Glim.“Has something been removed from the world?” he asked.”

“No,” Urvwen said, lowering his voice. “Something has been removed from another world. And it has come here.”

“What will it do?”

“I don’t know. But I think it will be very bad.”

“Why?”

“It‟s too complicated to explain,” he sighed. “And even if you understood my explanation,it wouldn’t help. Mundus—the world—is a very delicate thing, you know. Only certain rules keep it from returning to the Is/Is Not”.

-Infernal City
When the Order wanted to remove the eye from the world because it would destroy it and the World wasn't ready, they were talking about the Mundus which should be clear. This is further backed up by the fact that we find out that the Psjiic order exists in a pocket dimension outside of Mundus and was actively in that pocket dimension during the events of Skyrim:

So K’Tora has been controlling your actions for all these years?
“No, I doubt K’Tora’s magic could reach to Artaeum once I removed it from the world. I think that’s why I hid the island. A sort of preservation instinct.
If not for the abyssal pearl, K’Tora would never have been able to exert its influence again.”

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Ritemaster_Iachesis

“The island vanished three-hundred-and-fifty years ago. The Ritemaster hid it in some pocket plane for who knows what purpose.”

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vanus_Galerion

What’s the Psijic Order?
“They were a group of mages with a history that pre-dates the Empire. Very powerful, very secretive. No one’s seen them in well over a hundred years. They vanished, along with their sanctuary on the Isle of Artaeum. I have no idea what connection they’d have to this place.”
Why is the Psijic Order contacting me?
“I have no idea, but it’s fascinating. Assuming it’s true, of course. The Isle of Artaeum disappeared over a hundred years ago, and no one has seen them since. And yet now, suddenly, they have chosen to contact you? Why, it’s intriguing! If nothing else, I’d take it as a compliment. The Psijics have only ever dealt with those they feel worthy.”

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Tolfdir
So yeah, if that's not enough then there's the Thalmor plan that radicals like Ancano and Erstamo follow which is to unmake the wheel of convention or the Mundus rather and ascend back into Aetherius:

To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum’s iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.

To achieve this goal, we must:

1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore_talk:Thalmor#Thalmor Goal
So with this massive spill of text, it's clear that:

• Ancano and radical sections of the Thalmor want to unmake the Mundus
• The Psjiics exist outside the Mundus
• When the Psjiics mention the "world" they mean Mundus

There was another text that insulates that they have an outside view and a hands-off policy when it comes to Mundus and only interfere when it's necessary but i think that's enough. So TLDR the eye was definitely a threat to the Mundus.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Me and Ultima have already begun work on revisions some time ago, that addresses many of the things here, and some new cosmology revelations.

The High 1-B rating for the Dovahkiin at the very least has some issues, due to how Alduin was arguably not at full power, but you can also argue in return that him not being at "maximum size" was perhaps a gameplay limitation.

I do agree that most of the protagonists, pelinal, etc. should be in the same range or tier. 2-C to 2-B is fine, but I don't know about 2-A.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

The High 1-B rating for the Dovahkiin at the very least has some issues, due to how Alduin was arguably not at full power, but you can also argue in return that him not being at "maximum size" was perhaps a gameplay limitation

Yea that’s why I avoided Alduin altogether, my justifications for Dovah’s tier being High 1-B was concerning Ahzidal and the Eye of Magnus.

Me and Ultima have already begun work on revisions some time ago, that addresses many of the things here, and some new cosmology revelations.

Yea I figured that, I just thought it’d be another 6 months before you 2 got around to it

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

It's glad to see elder scrolls get some love on this wiki

It seems to have been untouched for a long time

It's really unfortunate that I'm not well versed enough in the lore to properly comment on this thread but Kudos to you trying to make changes to my favorite fantasy verse

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

It's glad to see elder scrolls get some love on this wiki

It seems to have been untouched for a long time

It's really unfortunate that I'm not well versed enough in the lore to properly comment on this thread but Kudos to you trying to make changes to my favorite fantasy verse

Appreciate it dude!

 

[Imaginym]

Me and Ultima have already begun work on revisions some time ago, that addresses many of the things here, and some new cosmology revelations.

The High 1-B rating for the Dovahkiin at the very least has some issues, due to how Alduin was arguably not at full power, but you can also argue in return that him not being at "maximum size" was perhaps a gameplay limitation.

I do agree that most of the protagonists, pelinal, etc. should be in the same range or tier. 2-C to 2-B is fine, but I don't know about 2-A.

If you'll pardon my saying & asking, please when can we expect to see those new revisions for evaluation?
How long have you been working on them? It feels like it's been literal, actual years, which worries me about the 'verse.
Are any of such revisions sorts that can be spread out?

 

[ShivaShakti]

If you'll pardon my saying & asking, please when can we expect to see those new revisions for evaluation?
How long have you been working on them? It feels like it's been literal, actual years, which worries me about the 'verse.
Are any of such revisions sorts that can be spread out?

Probably not that long if we really get back to it.

Pages that are currently completed or near complete

New Cosmology Blog
Y'ffre
Alduin
Dovahkiin
Vestige
Nerevarine
Mankar Camoran
Barbas
Mannimarco
Vivec

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Pages that are currently completed or near complete

1. Yayyy maybe we can get a profile for MEMORY, that Jubal Lun Sul Profile posted, finally fix the Numidium’s tier (cuz good god he needs it)

2. Are you making a new Namira profile as well? If not I have a whole imagur collection for Namira’s justifications being H1A

3. So, sure. You guys are fixing the Oblivion’s profiles which is 1/4 of my post already and I’d assume you’d include the vestiges new powers, so that’s 50%, cool. Now that that’s out of the way, and I don’t mean to hound you but can we focus on why 2-A or possibly 2-A isn’t useable for Nirn’s tier and my Dovahkiin justifications?

Because none of my Justifications have anything to do with Alduin the world eater, and instead have something to do with another quest lines, which haven’t been resolved yet. Given the sheer amount of time it took for me to research this and create an account here (and get my fandom blocked by ant for whatever reason) and also write this all out, I’d rather have a logical explanation as to why these justifications are unusable rather than it getting blown off because of some revisions a few months a way that don’t tackle the other half of my concerns with this CRT.

 

[Scottycj256]

Probably not that long if we really get back to it.

Pages that are currently completed or near complete

New Cosmology Blog
Y'ffre
Alduin
Dovahkiin
Vestige
Nerevarine
Mankar Camoran
Barbas
Mannimarco
Vivec

don't know how relevant this is but is there an Imperial Agent page being worked on (the protagonist of Daggerfall)

 

[FinePoint]

[Evidence for Eye's power to unmake the world]

Thank you. This is better evidence which I didn't explicitly remember. You should include this in the OP in addition to Ancano's statements, for my previous reasons. In this case I will concede that the Eye could actually unmake the world since all of the evidence makes that clear.

[More argument why the Dragonborn should scale]

The first point is sort of nullified by the fact that the Dragonborn already has the staff when everyone but them are one-shot and paralyzed in that clip. Indeed, the staff itself has the power to absorb and nullify magicka, but that sort of pre-explains your last counter-argument.

The staff does not need to amp the Dragonborn to equalize the fight- it can also nerf Ancano instead, which I believe is what happens. Even if that happens before the blast, it's still common sense that the Dragonborn far surpasses the other random wizards, so a weakened blast one-shotting all but him still makes sense.

Which brings us to the dragon priest- the Dragonborn was already far stronger than a dragon priest, and draining the Dragonborn's magicka wasn't enough to equalize that difference like it was versus Ancano.

I should also mention that someone being invulnerable doesn't mean that the person fighting them does not scale in the context of TES. The Dovahkiin technically can't harm Alduin, yet his thu'um had surpassed his, and you can even kill Miraak before him to prove this. There's also a trend with Gods not being able to be damaged significantly due to their invulnerability to physical and magical harm, take Dagoth Ur for example who the Nerevarine still scales to, its just invulnerability, resistance to magic, and resilient immortality

Not necessarily on its own, no, but to scale you'd need sufficient other evidence, which I don't believe we have given the context of the fight.

[Tsun stuff]

Regardless of why Tsun found them impressive in the test, we lack evidence of scaling in a real conflict, and can only speculate as to what impressing him actually means in this context. I do think it's wise to simply abandon this evidence, as it doesn't really prove anything in either direction without unfair speculation.

[On Septimus]

I am not disputing that Septimus may be highly knowledgeable on the Elder Scrolls and their nature, but I am disputing that his written work can be safely accepted at face-value or safely interpreted. If the smartest scholars in the land ultimately can't comprehend what he means with what he's written down, I think it's a large assumption for us to say we can.

While I completely see how the quote could be interpreted as a statement about additional dimensions in the way you're positing, I can't help but also acknowledge that at the end of the day it is simply us guessing what we think he meant in a line that's otherwise abstract by nature. It would be different if there was a second text in-universe like "scholars have interpreted this as likely meaning _____" but we lack that, and I think it's unfair of us to simply guess, especially in a way which neatly fits our own ideals of scaling the universe.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

The first point is sort of nullified by the fact that the Dragonborn already has the staff when everyone but them are one-shot and paralyzed in that clip. Indeed, the staff itself has the power to absorb and nullify magicka, but that sort of pre-explains your last counter-argument

What I'm saying is, if you think the staff gave a defensive amp, then the Dovahkiin would still scale via defeating Morokei as his attacks could hurt and kill him. If you agree that the staff has High 1-B potency, then he would still scale via canonically tanking the staff when he went to retrieve the staff as Morokei drains you at least 3 times and you survived, and he didn't resist it, but actually survived it. If you think the staff does not give a passive defensive amp, then the Dovahkiin would be tanking High 1-B attacks from both the Staff and Ancano (and Ahzidal but that's a different point)

The staff does not need to amp the Dragonborn to equalize the fight- it can also nerf Ancano instead, which I believe is what happens. Even if that happens before the blast, it's still common sense that the Dragonborn far surpasses the other random wizards, so a weakened blast one-shotting all but him still makes sense.

This would be a good point but that blast was Ancano tapping into its Full power. Outside of that you are the only one left standing canonically and you have to actually tank hits while you drain eye. I should also mention the staff's effects aren't passive, you have to actively use it.

Which brings us to the dragon priest- the Dragonborn was already far stronger than a dragon priest, and draining the Dragonborn's magicka wasn't enough to equalize that difference like it was versus Ancano.

That Dragon priest is pretty impressive to say the least. He makes an appearance in ESO and it's stated that if he's freed from his tomb he would consume the world, its why they needed to call on the power of Kyne to imprison him:

“Then who did?
“A necromancer, one with strength the likes of which I have never faced. But all his power will not help him if Morokei emerges from his tomb. The Dragon Priest will consume him and then the world.”

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Hjarnam
I should also say the staff doesn't just drain Magicka but also health and stamina. So tanking attacks from not only Morokei but something that objectively can drain health, magic, and stamina at High 1-B should definitely scale

Not necessarily on its own, no, but to scale you'd need sufficient other evidence, which I don't believe we have given the context of the fight.

TES games make it pretty clear when someone has the AP advantage on you.

• In Oblivion if you hit Sheogorath you'd just be one shotted without question
• In Skyrim if you run past Tsun without fighting him, he will basically one shot you with lightning.
• In the Dragonborn DLC you get one tapped by Miraak in a cutscene

If the Dovahkiin didn't scale to the staff and eye at least durability wise or AP wise he would have been insta-killed by Ancano and Morokei. Miraak was stated to be the Dovahkiin's most powerful enemy which exceeds the others. Which is good for bringing up because even if you defeat Miraak and absorb his soul, you're technically more powerful than Alduin but cannot harm him due to his nature as a god. Same thing with Dagoth Ur being powered by the HOL and Ancano with the Eye or Kaalgrontiid with Jode's core. Even Morokei himself (lore-wise) is technically invunerable and deathless unless you have the voice of a Dragon. So yea, you can still scale to someone and not being able to kill them in TES when divine artifacts are involved.

Regardless of why Tsun found them impressive in the test, we lack evidence of scaling in a real conflict, and can only speculate as to what impressing him actually means in this context. I do think it's wise to simply abandon this evidence, as it doesn't really prove anything in either direction without unfair speculation.

Fair enough, i concede to this point

While I completely see how the quote could be interpreted as a statement about additional dimensions in the way you're positing, I can't help but also acknowledge that at the end of the day it is simply us guessing what we think he meant in a line that's otherwise abstract by nature. It would be different if there was a second text in-universe like "scholars have interpreted this as likely meaning _____" but we lack that, and I think it's unfair of us to simply guess, especially in a way which neatly fits our own ideals of scaling the universe.

Not really, there's been many mentions of temporal dimensions and Elder Scrolls peering into time. This text states that the concept of "untime" cannot be measured by the elder scrolls since it was timeless and that the elder scrolls peer into time. This is backed up by the fact that in skyrim we literally use the elder scroll to observe the accounts of the Nord heroes vs Alduin.
Where were you when the Dragon broke:

"No one understands what happened when the Selectives danced on that tower. It would be easy to dismiss the whole matter as nonsense were it not for the Amulet of Kings. Even the Elder Scrolls do not mention it -- let me correct myself, the Elder Scrolls cannot mention it. When the Moth priests attune the Scrolls to the timeless time their glyphs always disappear. The Amulet of Kings, however, with its oversoul of emperors, can speak of it at length. According to Hestra, Cyrodiil became an Empire across the stars. According to Shor-El, Cyrodiil became an egg. Most say something in a language they can only speak sideways. The Council has collected texts and accounts from all of its provinces, and they only offer stories that never coincide, save on one point: all the folk of Tamriel during the Middle Dawn, in whatever 'when' they were caught in, tracked the fall of the eight stars. And that is how they counted their days."

Septmis words aren't all that odd. He's saying that time is a line (1 Dimensional) that you can look one way and another into the stream of time (past and future). He then says that the elder scrolls can do that and more seeing the past and future as one. He then says you can look up and down in time using the elder scrolls which is most definitely talking about higher temporal dimensions, even saying that's where "madness begins"

You look to your left, you see one way. You look to your right, you see another. But neither is any harder than the opposite. But the Elder Scrolls... they look left and right in the stream of time. The future and past are as one: Sometimes they even look up. What do they see then? What if they dive in? Then the madness begins.

So TLDR as a master of the nature of Elder scrolls he is saying that they can peer into the past and future but also look into higher axis of time by looking up and down as opposed to just past and future an even says the elder scrolls see the past and future as one

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Big oof

 

[FinePoint]

Have you contacted plenty of knowledgeable members already?
I'm willing to continue our debate if you'd like, but ultimately I alone can't approve/reject this.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Have you contacted plenty of knowledgeable members already?
I'm willing to continue our debate if you'd like, but ultimately I alone can't approve/reject this.

I’ve contacted pretty much everyone who was under the supporters list for the verse and haven’t really gotten much of a response at all unfortunately. Shivashakti stated that they have revisions in the works however, I’ve seen the profiles and they don’t really tackle the High 1-B issue and/or 2-A issue which is my main concern for this CRT. Everything else looks good though.
As for continuing the debate, sure but I’ll probably tone down my responses though

 

[FinePoint]

I’ve contacted pretty much everyone who was under the supporters list for the verse and haven’t really gotten much of a response at all unfortunately. Shivashakti stated that they have revisions in the works however, I’ve seen the profiles and they don’t really tackle the High 1-B issue and/or 2-A issue which is my main concern for this CRT. Everything else looks good though.
As for continuing the debate, sure but I’ll probably tone down my responses though

If nobody on the supporter's list is responding, then you may message staff not on the list and politely ask them for input based on the evidence provided. Thread mods in particular.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

If nobody on the supporter's list is responding, then you may message staff not on the list and politely ask them for input based on the evidence provided. Thread mods in particular.

Alrighty I’ll do that. Now we play the waiting game

 

[Abeastiry]

What I'm saying is, if you think the staff gave a defensive amp, then the Dovahkiin would still scale via defeating Morokei as his attacks could hurt and kill him. If you agree that the staff has High 1-B potency, then he would still scale via canonically tanking the staff when he went to retrieve the staff as Morokei drains you at least 3 times and you survived, and he didn't resist it, but actually survived it. If you think the staff does not give a passive defensive amp, then the Dovahkiin would be tanking High 1-B attacks from both the Staff and Ancano (and Ahzidal but that's a different point)

This would be a good point but that blast was Ancano tapping into its Full power. Outside of that you are the only one left standing canonically and you have to actually tank hits while you drain eye. I should also mention the staff's effects aren't passive, you have to actively use it.


That Dragon priest is pretty impressive to say the least. He makes an appearance in ESO and it's stated that if he's freed from his tomb he would consume the world, its why they needed to call on the power of Kyne to imprison him:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Hjarnam
I should also say the staff doesn't just drain Magicka but also health and stamina. So tanking attacks from not only Morokei but something that objectively can drain health, magic, and stamina at High 1-B should definitely scale

TES games make it pretty clear when someone has the AP advantage on you.

• In Oblivion if you hit Sheogorath you'd just be one shotted without question
• In Skyrim if you run past Tsun without fighting him, he will basically one shot you with lightning.
• In the Dragonborn DLC you get one tapped by Miraak in a cutscene

If the Dovahkiin didn't scale to the staff and eye at least durability wise or AP wise he would have been insta-killed by Ancano and Morokei. Miraak was stated to be the Dovahkiin's most powerful enemy which exceeds the others. Which is good for bringing up because even if you defeat Miraak and absorb his soul, you're technically more powerful than Alduin but cannot harm him due to his nature as a god. Same thing with Dagoth Ur being powered by the HOL and Ancano with the Eye or Kaalgrontiid with Jode's core. Even Morokei himself (lore-wise) is technically invunerable and deathless unless you have the voice of a Dragon. So yea, you can still scale to someone and not being able to kill them in TES when divine artifacts are involved.

Fair enough, i concede to this point

Not really, there's been many mentions of temporal dimensions and Elder Scrolls peering into time. This text states that the concept of "untime" cannot be measured by the elder scrolls since it was timeless and that the elder scrolls peer into time. This is backed up by the fact that in skyrim we literally use the elder scroll to observe the accounts of the Nord heroes vs Alduin.
Where were you when the Dragon broke:

Septmis words aren't all that odd. He's saying that time is a line (1 Dimensional) that you can look one way and another into the stream of time (past and future). He then says that the elder scrolls can do that and more seeing the past and future as one. He then says you can look up and down in time using the elder scrolls which is most definitely talking about higher temporal dimensions, even saying that's where "madness begins"

So TLDR as a master of the nature of Elder scrolls he is saying that they can peer into the past and future but also look into higher axis of time by looking up and down as opposed to just past and future an even says the elder scrolls see the past and future as one

Seems legit to me. Being able to withstand Dawn magics, Ancano's and Morokei's attacks as well as the staff's properties should solidify an upscale. Those are three seperate scaling points that don't have to do with Alduin and are pretty well founded based on the given evidence. Good stuff man

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Seems legit to me. Being able to withstand Dawn magics, Ancano's and Morokei's attacks as well as the staff's properties should solidify an upscale. Those are three seperate scaling points that don't have to do with Alduin and are pretty well founded based on the given evidence. Good stuff man

Appreciate it bro. Let’s hope this can actually get recognized by more than 2 people now lol

 

[LazerDim8000]

Appreciate it bro. Let’s hope this can actually get recognized by more than 2 people now lol

I'm pretty sure there are some revisions coming soon for Oblivion and the Tier for Aetherius but let's look at some other things before that happens

Nirn's Tier​

So off the bat, Nirn is rated as low 2-C due to the Earth-bones and the higher Dimensional nature of Nirn's oceans. However, there's more to Nirn than that. Nirn contains many parallel versions of it:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:First_Scroll_of_Shadow

So right off the bat, this is 2-C. However, there is more. These are in fact universes as "realms" refer to the planes of oblivion due to the nature of the towers. The number of these "Shadow realities" or Adjacent places was heavily alluded to being infinite in number. Raynor describes space and time as interconnected but with many different "threads" with no beginning or end:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Raynor_Vanos

So this should be grounds for 2-C possibly 2-A. So there is also the topic of the temporal dimensions.. As we know the Mundus has infinite temporal dimensions, but a certain weirdo we meet in Skyrim alludes to the existence of 2-3 higher temporal dimensions, which could explain why there are continents that exist at different points in time:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Septimus_Signus
This also lines up with what we know about Y'ffre, who interprets the infinitely dimensioned time into the seas and sky:

https://pt.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Girnalin

With that being said it's possible that the 4th Dimensional oceans (that allow the time shenanigans with the continents) may be encompassed by a higher dimension that allows parallel versions of Tamriel versions of Tamriel/Nirn entirely. Vivec speaks of this in the sermons as disrupting the already normal non-cardinal points:

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/thirty-six-lessons-vivec-sermon-twenty-six
So with this, if accepted Nirn would be 2-A possibly Low 1-C

Dovahkiin Upgrade​

Yes, just hear me out, I won't mention Alduin. Let's talk about the eye of Magnus, an Artifact of immeasurable power that was too dangerous to keep in the Mundus. Our favorite thalmor agent, Ancano was stated to harness the " full and incredible power" of the Eye. Ancano later states that he has the power to "unmake the world" (Mundus):

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ancano
In the quest, everyone other than the Dovahkiin gets taken care of in one shot and you're the only one who can withstand its power. Yes, you can't harm him due to him being empowered by the literal God of Magic, your magical attacks will be negated obviously, but you're still able to tank hits and keep up with him, thus should scale. Even if we reject this we should give the Dovahkiin a key for the Staff of Magnus to be able to drain such power in the first place. There's also the whole dawn magicks thing with Ahzidal.
As we know Ahzidal was able to harness the power of the Dawn, this is the same power the Ayelids use to cause Void Nights, which basically removed the moons from the sky/brought them back

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Great_War_(book)
Keep in mind that in the text Ahzidal's descent states that he "delved deeper into the arts than any before him" and that he "exhausted the lore" on the Ayelids Dawn Magicks (So he should be capable of the or at least comparable to the Void nights) and he didn't even stop at Dawn Magicks, but he also expanded to Dragon runes and even turned towards Oblivion, which brought him power and Madness:


So good old Ahzidal should not only scale to the Void Nights feat but should exceed them given the power he gained from the dragons and Oblivion.
Now, I am fairly certain this wiki rates the plane(t)s and moons as High 1-B due to the moons being the literal body parts of Lorkhan and his dual nature. Wulfarth was also able to shift the position of the moons with a shout, to which Wulfarth alone should be comparable with the Dovahkiin:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Tale_of_Dro'Zira
Also, just a bit of supporting evidence, the god Tsun considers the Dovahkiin a worthy opponent, which would make more sense if he were High 1-B instead of Low 2-C:

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Tsun
TLDR The Dovahkiin should have an endgame key as High 1-B

Issues with Pelinal, Umaril, and Mankar​

Pelinal as of right now is rated as 4-A. This has problems because Pelinal both conquered all of Tamriel himself and forced Alkosh to intervene to save the Khajit:

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/hallgerds-tale
With this, he should at least be comparable to the protagonists and the same with Umaril. As for Mankar, he's currently rated 4-C for creating Gaia Alata, however, this should not be his limit as creators of realms can change the shape and look of their realms at will and are reflections of their realm. Gaia Alata is a metaphor made manifest for the emblem of the Mythic Dawn. This is why it contains a singular star and it's always Dawn there. This feat should scale to any other dimension-creating feat if anything. Speaking of the dimensions, literally every dimension of Oblivion is described as infinite in size and I doubt the Xarxes gave Mankar less power than something like the Golden Path or Khul.

TLDR Pelinal, Umaril, CoC, and maybe Mankar should scale to the other protagonists.

Prisoner/Vestige add ons​

The vestige gained the power to weave the fabric of fate itself with the newest expansion pack:

https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/arcanist
Thus they should have fate manipulation added to their abilities. The rest of the Prisoners should have probability manipulation added due to the comments from AIOS:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Aios
Portal creation:

Summoning

https://eso-hub.com/en/skills/arcanist/herald-of-the-tome
Durability Negation:


Statistics amp




Due to the Prisoner existing outside of possibility, time, causality, etc they should have such things added:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Sotha_Sil
TLDR The Protagonists should have Acausality type 4 at least+ probability manipulation and resistance to time, causality, and probability manipulation

I agree with all of this, even if they can’t get scaled Cus of the alduin issue that is clearly due to ancient gameplay mechanhics on betheshdas side, they should at least scale to tier 1 for their numerous hax and passives

 

[LazerDim8000]

Damn, bumping for resurrection.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Damn, bumping for resurrection.

Good luck with that lol

 

[Imaginym]

Perhaps some staff &/or knowledgeable members should be contacted about this?
What's being waited for again?

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Perhaps some staff &/or knowledgeable members should be contacted about this?
What's being waited for again?

I’ve contacted pretty much all knowledgeable members and countless mods lol it’s pretty much ggs on this thread. Ultima is likely far too busy with the revisions on the tiering system.

 

[Metalija]

Damn did people really stop giving a shit about this verse? Anyway, Alduin should be High 1-B. He fought Shor 1 on 1, and defeated Mehrunes Dagon easily, plus it was mentioned that Daedric Princes in general were afraid of him. Dovahkiin scales to Alduin so he is also High 1-B. There is no evidence that Alduin was weaker in TESV. People say that because some folk tale says how he can be as big a continent means that he is not at full power in the game, but thats headcanon.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Alduin should be High 1-B. He fought Shor 1 on 1, and defeated Mehrunes Dagon easily, plus it was mentioned that Daedric Princes in general were afraid of him

Alduin does have a High 1-B key in the new sandbox profiles being made but the Dovahkiin will remain at tier 2, which is my main gripe due to my mentioning of 2-3 other high 1-B feats for the Dovahkiin pertaining to the Eye of Magnus and Ahzidal’s Dawn magicks. Also they might not take Aldudagga completely seriously, especially given the princes are gonna be 1-A pretty soon.

 

[LazerDim8000]

Alduin does have a High 1-B key in the new sandbox profiles being made but the Dovahkiin will remain at tier 2, which is my main gripe due to my mentioning of 2-3 other high 1-B feats for the Dovahkiin pertaining to the Eye of Magnus and Ahzidal’s Dawn magicks. Also they might not take Aldudagga completely seriously, especially given the princes are gonna be 1-A pretty soon.

No that sand box is still wrong. There is absolutely no mention of dagons incident nor how the princes had fear for him . Wth man. How can a god who is not restricted in Mundus like other daedric princess go from high 1b to 2c-b bunkers bruh. For the dovah they was ysmir, can use dawn magick for bfr, can tank said dawn magic, and many more feats that clearly call for tier 1 upgrades.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

There is absolutely no mention of dagons incident nor how the princes had fear for him . Wth man

It’s to avoid the question of Aldudagga’s validity. Aldudagga in an in-universe text that has been passed down by generations via speech, so it could have SOME inaccuracies. Especially, the prince part. I highly doubt someone like Namira fears Alduin given what we know about her in ESO. That wouldn’t take away from his rating though, but still worth considering

How can a god who is not restricted in Mundus like other daedric princess go from high 1b to 2c-b bunkers bruh.

It comes from this text that states that he has to consume souls to maintain his power:
“Whether or not he is actually a deity remains in question, but the Alduin of Nord folklore is in fact a dragon, but one so ancient, and so powerful, he was dubbed the "World Eater," and some accounts even have him devouring the souls of the dead to maintain his own power. Other stories revolve around Alduin acting as some sort of dragon king, uniting the other dragons in a war against mankind, until he was eventually defeated at the hands of one or more brave heroes.”

For the dovah they was ysmir, can use dawn magick

The Dovahkiin can’t use dawn Magicks but he can tank and surpass it so yea

 

[Metalija]

especially given the princes are gonna be 1-A pretty soon.

Really? Whats the reason?

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Really? Whats the reason?

Here’s a quick overview I made a while a back but yes, oblivion is in a state of “unplace” and “untime” lacking spatial and temporal framework entirely and only seem to have time or space due to the creator of the realm adopting those trappings to interact with mortals or make it so they don’t go insane.

 

[Metalija]

Does anyone have any idea on what tier should Paarthurnax be? He did put up a fight against Alduin, but it seems weird for him to be High 1-B.