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The Echo of a hero vs The Ancient Hero (0-8-0) (GRACE)

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Peppersalt43 said:
Bump, lets continue the discussion
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The luck is actually pretty goofy if you think about it, Iihiko scales to the 1 in a 1 million feat, and while yeah i dont think it affects his opponents mentality, it could do shit like increasing the ods of misses and shch

Well this is Reid we are talking about so Space-time cm type 2 dura neg gg
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
The luck is actually pretty goofy if you think about it, Iihiko scales to the 1 in a 1 million feat, and while yeah i dont think it affects his opponents mentality, it could do shit like increasing the ods of misses and shch

Well this is Reid we are talking about so Space-time cm type 2 dura neg gg
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Iihiko has Large Size(Type 0) so I question how Reid could possibly miss any of his hits. Would Iihiko Attack Reflection and/or Power Nullification work on Reid? Cause if they can then Reid might not have any wincons in this match
 
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MysticBrawler said:
Iihiko has Large Size(Type 0) so I question how Reid could possibly miss any of his hits. Would Iihiko Attack Reflection and/or Power Nullification work on Reid? Cause if they can then Reid might not have any wincons in this match
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His sword slashes are cm type 2 and can cut dimensions, black holes, Space-time, objects OUTSIDE of Space-time, reality and existence, things that exist, things that dont exist (Cor Leonis), authorities. And the best part is due to him being basicalky a skill god, he can make new attacks, techniques and martial arts on the fly which are gonna be absolutely perfected and optimal. For eg. When the tower started falling, Reid created an entirey new school and method of running that was absolutely optimal for that situation
Considering that if Iihiko doesn't consider an attack an attack then it doesnt damage him, Reid just needs to make new and improved version of techniques and attacks as he fight him which he knows how to do via the prior knowledge
Btw does Iihiko have any resistance to layered fear hax? He may be stunned or straight up die otherwise
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
His sword slashes are cm type 2 and can cut dimensions, black holes, Space-time, objects OUTSIDE of Space-time, reality and existence, things that exist, things that dont exist (Cor Leonis), authorities. And the best part is due to him being basicalky a skill god, he can make new attacks, techniques and martial arts on the fly which are gonna be absolutely perfected and optimal. For eg. When the tower started falling, Reid created an entirey new school and method of running that was absolutely optimal for that situation
Considering that if Iihiko doesn't consider an attack an attack then it doesnt damage him, Reid just needs to make new and improved version of techniques and attacks as he fight him which he knows how to do via the prior knowledge
Btw does Iihiko have any resistance to layered fear hax? He may be stunned or straight up die otherwise
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Medaka has Conceptual Manipulation(Type 2) in her power set and apparently even that was nullified by Iihiko so I'm not sure if Reid improving his technique/attacks would be enough to continuously damage Iihiko.

No he doesn't. I'm not exactly sure why though, but I'd say it's either because Medaka's Fear Manipulation is tied to her powerset so it got nullified along with her other powers or because the power gap between her and Iihiko was too large for her make use of it.
 
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MysticBrawler said:
Medaka has Conceptual Manipulation(Type 2) in her power set and apparently even that was nullified by Iihiko so I'm not sure if Reid improving his technique/attacks would be enough to continuously damage Iihiko.
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He doesnt really need that, his attacks are comparable in AP so he just slices him to death with "new" and "unseen" techniques and attacks. Its also possible for him to maybe even copy the styles but i kind of doubt it
MysticBrawler said:
No he doesn't. I'm not exactly sure why though, but I'd say it's either because Medaka's Fear Manipulation is tied to her powerset so it got nullified along her other powers or because the power gap between her and Iihiko was too large for her make use of it.
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Aren't they both 5C though? Well Reid's is layered so it doesnt matter either way
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
He doesnt really need that, his attacks are comparable in AP so he just slices him to death with "new" and "unseen" techniques and attacks. Its also possible for him to maybe even copy the styles but i kind of doubt it

Aren't they both 5C though? Well Reid's is layered so it doesnt matter either way
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That might work, but it will probably only work once since the description for Iihiko's Irreversible Destruction states that "He will also no longer recognize any ability or technique previously used against him as an attack, so even if the power is somehow still functional after being used on him, it will not effect him anyway."

Actually no. Medaka's 5-C rating comes from her End God Mode, which is her 4th key. When she first fought Iihiko she used her Altered God Mode, her 3rd key, which only has a "Unknown, at least 8-B" rating at most.
 
MysticBrawler said:
That might work, but it will probably only work once since the description for Iihiko's Irreversible Destruction states that "He will also no longer recognize any ability or technique previously used against him as an attack, so even if the power is somehow still functional after being used on him, it will not effect him anyway."
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Yeah as i said, Reid can make up new shit on the fly. It wouldnt be odd at all for him to make a completely new branch of martial arts, sword technique, chopstick technique, goofy sheningans or even learning some other attacks.
MysticBrawler said:
Actually no. Medaka's 5-C rating comes from her End God Mode, which is her 4th key. When she first fought Iihiko she used her Altered God Mode, her 3rd key, which only has a "Unknown, at least 8-B" rating at most.
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I see, that is interesting
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
Yeah as i said, Reid can make up new shit on the fly. It wouldnt be odd at all for him to make a completely new branch of martial arts, sword technique, chopstick technique, goofy sheningans or even learning some other attacks.

I see, that is interesting
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It seems that he won't have to since Iihiko has no resistance to Fear Manipulation. Is that ability something that he normally leads with? Cause this might turn out to be a stomp for Reid instead.
 
MysticBrawler said:
It seems that he won't have to since Iihiko has no resistance to Fear Manipulation. Is that ability something that he normally leads with? Cause this might turn out to be a stomp for Reid instead.
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Fear manip just causes somebody who resists fear manipulation of Echidna, which causes you to vomit, to fàll down in fear and start hyperventilating
and yeah he just kinda automatically does it when he is serious in a fight
Its not exactly a wincon through since it doesn't incap you and Iihiko probably just starts resisting it after a while
 
Hmm, honestly it's hard to make a call for this one. In order to see who wins this there are 2 questions that need to be answered:
1. "Would Reid's Conceptual Manipulation work on Iihiko"-I know I said that Iihiko can nullify Conceptual Manipulation(Type 2), but there were actually two things that I forgot to consider. 1st of all the context, the justification used to show that Medaka's Conceptual Manipulation was nullified is that she couldn't use any of her abilities to heal herself from the damage that she received from Iihiko, this includes All Fiction(this is Causality Manipulation that has Conceptual Manipulation(Type 2) as one of it's applications) which would have allowed her to erase all the damage that she received. With that said it doesn't seem like Iihiko has ever actually been hit by a conceptual attack. 2nd what nullified it wasn't Iihiko's Subjective Immunity, it was his Irreversible Destruction.

2."Does Iihiko have any wincons?"- Reid has Instinctive Action, Analytical Prediction, and Perception Manipulation, so even assuming that Iihiko could negate Reid's Conceptual Manipulation I don't see how he could land any hit's on Reid.

Depending on how these two are answered this match will either be inconclusive or a stomp for Reid.
 
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MysticBrawler said:
Hmm, honestly it's hard to make a call for this one. In order to see who wins this there are 2 questions that need to be answered:
1. "Would Reid's Conceptual Manipulation work on Iihiko"-I know I said that Iihiko can nullify Conceptual Manipulation(Type 2), but there were actually two things that I forgot to consider. 1st of all the context, the justification used to show that Medaka's Conceptual Manipulation was nullified is that she couldn't use any of her abilities to heal herself from the damage that she received from Iihiko, this includes All Fiction(this is Causality Manipulation that has Conceptual Manipulation(Type 2) as one of it's applications) which would have allowed her to erase all the damage that she received. With that said it doesn't seem like Iihiko has ever actually been hit by a conceptual attack. 2nd what nullified it wasn't Iihiko's Subjective Immunity, it was his Irreversible Destruction.
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I think Reid's cm type 2 works in that case
MysticBrawler said:
2"Does Iihiko have any wincons?"- Reid has Instinctive Action, Analytical Prediction, and Perception Manipulation, so even assuming that Iihiko could negate Reid's Conceptual Manipulation I don't see how he could land any hit's on Reid.
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Supernatural luck would make it more likely for Reid to trip up...since he is absolutely perfect in everything it would make it go from no wins to atleast some wins, i think. So it wouldn't be a stomp
I did say Iihiko wins 2-3/10 interactions with Reid but the skill gap is still too major for him to completely eclipse
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
I think Reid's cm type 2 works in that case

Supernatural luck would make it more likely for Reid to trip up...since he is absolutely perfect in everything it would make it go from no wins to atleast some wins, i think. So it wouldn't be a stomp
I did say Iihiko wins 2-3/10 interactions with Reid but the skill gap is still too major for him to completely eclipse
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Alright then, since this isn't a stomp I'm gonna vote for Reid.
 
MysticBrawler said:
Hmm, honestly it's hard to make a call for this one. In order to see who wins this there are 2 questions that need to be answered:
1. "Would Reid's Conceptual Manipulation work on Iihiko"-I know I said that Iihiko can nullify Conceptual Manipulation(Type 2), but there were actually two things that I forgot to consider. 1st of all the context, the justification used to show that Medaka's Conceptual Manipulation was nullified is that she couldn't use any of her abilities to heal herself from the damage that she received from Iihiko, this includes All Fiction(this is Causality Manipulation that has Conceptual Manipulation(Type 2) as one of it's applications) which would have allowed her to erase all the damage that she received. With that said it doesn't seem like Iihiko has ever actually been hit by a conceptual attack. 2nd what nullified it wasn't Iihiko's Subjective Immunity, it was his Irreversible Destruction.
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This is flat out wrong, Medaka used every single skill she had offensively, All Fiction being specifically mentioned, and none of them did anything to Iihiko.
2."Does Iihiko have any wincons?"- Reid has Instinctive Action, Analytical Prediction, and Perception Manipulation, so even assuming that Iihiko could negate Reid's Conceptual Manipulation I don't see how he could land any hit's on Reid.

Depending on how these two are answered this match will either be inconclusive or a stomp for Reid.
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Iihiko has luck comparable to Medaka as a Hero. As for what her luck entails, all Abnormals have this to an extent, but as a "Hero" Medaka exceeds them by a far margin. Easily manifesting one in a million chances and guessed the next combination of the door which has a 1 in a trillion chance of happening, stated to be able to pull it off a million times in a row, far superior to all other abnormals who pass through the same door on a daily basis who have their luck barely affected by an ability that makes nothing stray from its usual chances, causing all dice she rolls to stack on top of each other, and helping her to win elections. This can also cause her to have enemy's attacks miss vital areas, be spared by the whim of enemies, and come up with winning strategies in a pinch.
Basically, if he has the slightest chance to win, that slight chance will become an guarantee, plus as shown above when he was ignoring the abilities Medaka was using he was also ignoring the likes of Mister Unknown and Encouter, abilities that makes the users presence disappear and redirect damage elsewhere. So even abilities that don't affect Iihiko but alter his opponents abilities don't affect him.
 
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Everything12 said:
This is flat out wrong, Medaka used every single skill she had offensively, All Fiction being specifically mentioned, and none of them did anything to Iihiko.

Iihiko has luck comparable to Medaka as a Hero. As for what her luck entails, all Abnormals have this to an extent, but as a "Hero" Medaka exceeds them by a far margin. Easily manifesting one in a million chances and guessed the next combination of the door which has a 1 in a trillion chance of happening, stated to be able to pull it off a million times in a row, far superior to all other abnormals who pass through the same door on a daily basis who have their luck barely affected by an ability that makes nothing stray from its usual chances, causing all dice she rolls to stack on top of each other, and helping her to win elections. This can also cause her to have enemy's attacks miss vital areas, be spared by the whim of enemies, and come up with winning strategies in a pinch.
Basically, if he has the slightest chance to win, that slight chance will become an guarantee, plus as shown above when he was ignoring the abilities Medaka was using he was also ignoring the likes of Mister Unknown and Encouter, abilities that makes the users presence disappear and redirect damage elsewhere. So even abilities that don't affect Iihiko but alter his opponents abilities don't affect him.
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What chapter was that from? Cause the justification for Iihiko's Power Nullification come from chapters 163, 164, and 166.

1st of all the scans for the second and third links as well as the second to the last one won't show up(apparently they've either been moved or deleted). 2nd I already know how luck works in Medaka Box, the problem is that 1)(as far as I can recall) Iihiko himself hasn't really displayed any luck feats so there is no way to know if this would even come into play, and 2) He has been hit multiple times by different characters. With that said, even if Iihiko's luck did come into play I think it's safe to assume that Reid would still be able to hit him since he more than likely is the more skilled of the two.
 
Iihiko's profile says he won't recognize an attack used before as an attack, but does that mean the reverse is true? Does he always recognize an attack the first time it is used? If not, then what would even make him recognize an attack?
 
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