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The Dragonborn (Skyrim) Vs. Arceus (Pokémon)

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With that response, you just lost me. It's still a feat that should be listed on their profiles, regardless of whether the conditions for this were limited or not. Like, based on the logic of that response should we starting making other changes like taking away the 1A part from Reinhard's first key?

If the feat is there, put it in there with proper specifications. Otherwise people within the discussions aren't gonna comprehend or agree with the points made that easily. I'm not denying the Tier 1 shenanigans that Dova boi supposedly has....I'm just perplexed as to why there's no indications of that and that no one thinks he can do such stuff until a Vs thread opens up with a can of worms.

I'm sry if I sound like I'm b****ing here. But when I first came into the thread after looking at both sides' profile, I responded based on what I saw from the provided info. There wasn't anything from Doval's profile that would let me know he he can touch tier 1 stuff (1C-1B, specifically). Then all the sudden I look like an idiot when a bunch of pro-ES people info dump on me....like how was I supposed to know that in the first place, and how sufficient the evidence may be?

I'm just saying, man...even if it's confirmed, the thread wouldn't need to go into convoluted arguments consisting "oh no, I disagree, he/she does this and that and GGs easily as pie". Like, I also feel insulted when that happens. I suggest making another CRT debating on whether or not such high tier feats that are usually one-time-only should be indicated or not on their respective pages, sure I'm pretty sure they very well should be.

P.S. again, I apologize, this time for the long blocks of text.
 
As far as I'm aware, the only tier 1 feat that the Dovahkiin have is him power nulling the Eye of Magnus using the Staff of Magnus (which is a power nullification feat, not an AP feat). I'm guessing the reason why the Dovahkiin doesn't have a new key for it is because it's just a really, really powerful power null hax, which doesn't have anything to do with AP. Though it's only me guessing stuff.
 
In summary, most legendary artifacts are often temporary power boosts. They do not tie with the Prisoner forever. Those artifacts do not tie with the tier, because they do not belong to the Prisoner. Thus the profile does not need a key.

I had been lobbying for profile series on every legendary artifact, but no moderator approves it. Or anyone knowledgeable enough to make them.
 
Artifact Profiles never get made, or are always deleted, because they aren't as powerful as you think they are. They are low 1-C when Daedric Princes use them because Daedric Princes themselves are low 1-C; they could pick up a random stick and make it low 1-C (hell you technically did that in Oblivion when the CoC became Sheogorath). The Dovahkiin does not have tier 1 hax (ignoring the Staff of Magnus)

The Staff of Magnus doesn't work here because Arceus doing anything (including having a heart beat since that's where a vastly inferior character in Pokemon gets their 2-B rating from) instantly one shots the Dovahkiin.
 
Keeweed said:
Artifact Profiles never get made, or are always deleted, because they aren't as powerful as you think they are. They are low 1-C when Daedric Princes use them because Daedric Princes themselves are low 1-C; they could pick up a random stick and make it low 1-C (hell you technically did that in Oblivion when the CoC became Sheogorath). The Dovahkiin does not have tier 1 hax (ignoring the Staff of Magnus)
The Staff of Magnus doesn't work here because Arceus doing anything (including having a heart beat since that's where a vastly inferior character in Pokemon gets their 2-B rating from) instantly one shots the Dovahkiin.
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They can be revised and edited by peers. The artifact profiles can be extremely helpful, and I only propose to make them.

They are certainly powerful as they can be with or without a Prince. Umbra as an individual almost killed Clavicus Vile, or Mehrunes Razor can make a weakling into a Prince. Daedric Princes do not grant them the Low 1-C status, rather the mythical situation and cosmic weirdness permit godlike properties of power. The Dovahkiin may not solidly have Low 1-C hax via Daedric artifacts, but there are certain qualities similar to those of Low 1-C feats. The hero hypothetically emulates the Low 1-C hax but not in the department of AP. He can use the Rueful Axe to cut through gods or Mehrunes Razor to alter beings.

Bullshit since either of them has immeasurable speed. The hero wields a Low 1-C Elder artifact can nullify any hillarious lowly 2-B AP strikes before they manifest. You clearly ignore what we have been saying all along. Unless you can argue that Arceus is stronger than the freaking Fa-Nuit-Heit or Sheogorath.
 
Umbra only hurt Clavicus due to a connection between the two. If umbra attacked any other Daedric Prince it would have gotten immediately destroyed (also that was plot convince and plot induced stupidity). Mehrunes Razor was also due to a connection between it and Dagon and has really nothing to do with how powerful itself is. Artifacts aren't low 1-C in any way, shape, or form in the hands of the Dovahkiin; Matt and Ultima have pointed out multiple times that they are only that powerful in the hands of Daedric Princes, who are low 1-C.

Immeasurable Speed isn't the problem, Arceus is omnipresent across a range much greater than the Dovahkiin's range and kills with a heart beat. The Dovahkiin won't even have time to blink before being erased through sheer ap; hell Arceus won't even need a heart beat because the ap difference is beyond infinite here.
 
Keeweed said:
Umbra only hurt Clavicus due to a connection between the two. If umbra attacked any other Daedric Prince it would have gotten immediately destroyed (also that was plot convince and plot induced stupidity). Mehrunes Razor was also due to a connection between it and Dagon and has really nothing to do with how powerful itself is. Artifacts aren't low 1-C in any way, shape, or form in the hands of the Dovahkiin; Matt and Ultima have pointed out multiple times that they are only that powerful in the hands of Daedric Princes, who are low 1-C.
Immeasurable Speed isn't the problem, Arceus is omnipresent across a range much greater than the Dovahkiin's range and kills with a heart beat. The Dovahkiin won't even have time to blink before being erased through sheer ap; hell Arceus won't even need a heart beat because the ap difference is beyond infinite here.
Click to expand...
The Dovahkiin may not solidly have Low 1-C hax via Daedric artifacts, but there are certain qualities similar to those of Low 1-C feats. I have to reiterate that part. The Dovahkiin is a Low 1-C with the artifacts unless being directly endowed by the godlike beings. The artifact as a sentient being capable of hurting the creator, which Umbra managed to pierce through higher dimensional barrier that every Daedric Prince should have - it is very impressive by any means. Actually, no. Dagon was forced to become a Prince through the usage of the Razor by Lyg the Magna Ge. The Razor is not having Low 1-C power, but it has the special quality to channel and shape the power. I don't disagree with Matt or Ultima, but I simply have a parallel interpretation of the artifact that they have qualities of altering Low 1-C powers. Let's be quite clear that artifacts don't have innate Low 1-C powers, but they have magical properties to alter those powers. However, I will not get into the whole argument on Daedric Artifacts since my focus for this thread is for the Elder Artifacts such as Staff of Magnus or Auriel's Bow.

Omnipresence with a multiversal range is not the same with The Dovahkiin's one. Arceus does not have greater range. The hero can jump to Apocrypha to snipe Arceus with Auriel's Bow or the Staff. Or use a Black Book to drop Arceus in Apocrypha. The Dovahkiin can go places beyond Arceus' reach. Omnipresence is irrelevant in this case, even Neloth is better than Arceus because he can just travel to Oblivion.
 
If the Artifacts aren't low 1-C then it doesn't matter in this fight. They can either effect low 1-Cs or they cannot; and they absolutely can't (Umbra only did it because, once again, plot convince because there should have been nothing stopping Clavicus from dodging due to having immeasurable speed).

The Dovahkiin won't have time to hop to Apocrypha, they won't have time to open the black book, they won't have time to even pull out the staff of Magnus because Arceus kills with a heart beat. Speed equalized means that what movements you do are the important speeds here and a heart beat is faster than the Dovahkiin's entire move set.
 
Clavicus Vile is omnipresent in his realm, and Umbra slaps him in the face. Technically, Umbra got outside help from Sheogorath for a pep talk, but the rogue artifact does most of the works. Well, we will get into a debate on Daedric Artifacts at another time.

Prisoner Metaphysics invoke the best possibility. Your argument is kinda ridiculous, because physical interaction such as heart beat or breathing is irrelevant with cosmic beings treat space-time as irrelevant. The Dovahkiin has every right as Arceus to make the best move suitable for either of them. The Prisoner metaphysics ensured the chosen outcome, and speed is certainly a nonfactor. As I read from Speed page, each verse has a different description on speed. Omnipresence does not mean a trump card if comparing to other more impressive characters from other universes.

All aspects of Space-Time are bound to Arceus, while Alduin is unbound by it as well as The Dovahkiin. At that point, your argument gets messy.
 
Then that's even more of a reason for it to be plot convince but yeah I'll talk about it later it's 2 am where I live.

In speed equalized matches how you attack is the most important part of the fight really. If you kill with a thought you're going to defeat the opponent who has to speak or point because thinking is faster than talking and pointing. A heart beat is almost instant in the context of a speed equalized match. The reason why Arceus' heart beat matters is because he can preform a 2-B feat by doing that, meanwhile the Dovahkiin is low 2-C which is beyond infinitely inferior. The heart beat also has 2-B range by default because the 2-B feat is creating a multiverse. The Dovahkiin being a prisoner doesn't matter because there isn't a single thing he could start with that would save him from being hit by a nigh passive 2-B attack.
 
Keeweed said:
Then that's even more of a reason for it to be plot convince but yeah I'll talk about it later it's 2 am where I live.
In speed equalized matches how you attack is the most important part of the fight really. If you kill with a thought you're going to defeat the opponent who has to speak or point because thinking is faster than talking and pointing. A heart beat is almost instant in the context of a speed equalized match. The reason why Arceus' heart beat matters is because he can preform a 2-B feat by doing that, meanwhile the Dovahkiin is low 2-C which is beyond infinitely inferior. The heart beat also has 2-B range by default because the 2-B feat is creating a multiverse. The Dovahkiin being a prisoner doesn't matter because there isn't a single thing he could start with that would save him from being hit by a nigh passive 2-B attack.
Click to expand...
Speed does not translate with Tiering system.

You clearly misunderstand the whole thing quite badly. That's why I brought up with the comparison between Alduin and Arceus, because both verses have great differences in scaling. Arceus and The Dovahkiin by the rules in Speed section should have an equal speed by thread condition, while the Dovahkiin has greater range. Arceus's 2-B strength does not give him 2-B speed or whatever, because this site does not scale speed based on what you are imagining.
 
I... what?

Ok I wasn't talking about "2-B speed" (I don't even know what to say about that).

I'm talking about the speed equalized in the op. When speed is equalized in a verses thread it pretty much means both combatants are average human in speed now (not literally but best way I could describe it). Arceus only has to be in the Dovahkiin's general area (within the same multiverse) to nigh passively kill the Dovahkiin. Due to SBA they both start 4 km away; the Dovahkiin doesn't even have the range advantage, his range advantage is non combat applicable and even if it could be used in the combat. The Dovahkiin starts within Arceus' AoE. His metaphysics won't protect him because he has 0% chance of winning this, no matter what he does or starts with he will always die.

Edit: (I'm going to bed right now)
 
As much as I would welcome the 1C feat ONLY if it's included in the profile, it feels more like wanking, ngl. I hate to say that, but it really does.


Only Keeweed's arguments have made more common sense so far because it's more straight to the point in terms of taking consideration of the SBA and usual vs thread rules.
 
Prisoner Metaphysics is not anything like save scumming or whatever, as Ultima got mad when i called it that before
 
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