The Dark Tower: Issues and Revisions

[KingPin0422]

Regarding Bessa, isn't she capable of affecting Gan to some extent? That would make her 1-A as well, I'm pretty sure.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

No. It's stated she has enough power to oppose Gan's will and alter a person's fate, but that's about it. There aren't any statements of her actually "affecting" him in any way.

Though if Todash Darkness turns out to qualify for an outerversal void, then she'll probably become 1-A anyway.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

MMMM

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump again.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Can I get a synposis on where we at in this thread? Also, PM me on discord King ovo.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

We're basically waiting on someone knowledgeable on our tiering system to confirm whether or not Todash Darkness counts as an outerversal void, based on what few quotes and little info surrounds it. Most of the current god-tiers's ratings are hinging on that, as are those of future profiles. (Ex: Maerlyn, Black Thirteen)

Gan becoming 1-A is pretty much universally accepted at this point.

I also may have an argument in favor of this CRT affecting Maturi and Pennywise, but I don't have enough time to detail that right now.

 

[Aeyu]

Well, I'd say Azzy and I are pretty well-versed in the tiering system. My verdict has already been that it's At least High 1-B. However, what constitutes an "outerversal" level of being is usually two things: conceptual transcendence of dimensions or a higher perspective that sees anything lower as unreal/fiction. If 1-A is going to be had, it's because the Tower encompasses this void as well as holding together dimensions themselves as a concept as well as looking at lower levels of itself as pure fiction. Thus, even the Todash Darkness would be fiction to the Tower's truest nature. That could be enough to propel King, Thirteen and Maerlyn to 1-A.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If 1-A is going to be had, it's because the Tower encompasses this void as well as holding together dimensions themselves as a concept as well as looking at lower levels of itself as pure fiction. Thus, even the Todash Darkness would be fiction to the Tower's truest nature. That could be enough to propel King, Thirteen and Maerlyn to 1-A.

I think this is a stretch.

Gan himself, however, is far closer to this criteria.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

@Azzy:

What are your thoughts on Todash Space? Do the quotes say anything that would grant it the qualities of an outerversal void, or nah?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

ded

 

[Aeyu]

The 40K revisions thread stole all the peoples >:T

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I crie

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Maybe it can go somewhere now that 40K was wanked<s/> upgraded.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Maybe.

I suppose I'll try and summarize things, just to get us moving again:

• Todash Darkness exists outside of everywhere in the DT multiverse, but is still technically contained within the Tower itself.
  • The DT multiverse has infinite floors, each infinitely larger than the last, with infinite universes in each floor (as confirmed in The Gunslinger) and infinite higher planes of existence in each universe. (as confirmed in Insomnia and vaguely expounded upon in Song of Susannah)
• Even in spite of existing "between" the universes of the Tower, Todash Darkness is considered endless.
• There are creatures that exist in Todash Darkness that are supposedly incomprehensible to beings that exist within reality. (And indeed even Mia, who's implied to be a Long-Timer, deems them such)
• The space of Todash Darkness is described as being "nowhere at all".

That's basically the extent of the information we're given on Todash Darkness. The only other thing we learn is that it's possible for someone who "goes todash" (read: travels between universes) to wind up falling between realities and getting stuck in Todash Darkness if they fail to make it back to their own world.

 

[Jockey-1337]

Personally I agree with the upgrades.


Another Beyonder vs TCK battle is coming soon. Now it will be battle between 1-As.

 

[Aeyu]

Aside from my own bias, that really does sound like 1-A @King.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

So that's two people who believe in a 1-A rating.

My own position is still neutral.

Anyone else?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Bump

 

[Aeyu]

change your posish so this goes through tbh

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I thought 1-A Gan was unanimous?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Not Gan. We've already moved past him. We're talking about Todash Space and whether or not it should qualify as an outerversal void.

If it does, then a fair number of characters are going to be 1-A alongside Gan due to their direct connections to Todash Space. But I want someone to actually confirm whether or not it's a legitimate 1-A void before we start jumping to conclusions. (I've already posted all the information on Todash Space above, in case you're wondering)

Two people-- Aeyu and Jockey-- think so already. I myself am still unsure.

 

[Aeyu]

We're talking about CK and Bessa more than Gan, I think.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If it does, then a fair number of characters are going to be 1-A alongside Gan due to their direct connections to Todash Space. But I want someone to actually confirm whether or not it's a legitimate 1-A void before we start jumping to conclusions. (I've already posted all the information on Todash Space above, in case you're wondering)

So what are the 1-A descriptions?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

This is the post where I added Mia's description of Todash Space

Summary of things

I posted the quotes from Insomnia about the "higher planes within a single universe" somewhere earlier in this thread, but I don't remember where that was. I'll find them if you give me a moment.

Anyway, like I said, I don't actually know whether or not this stuff qualifies for 1-A. This is just a summary of the info I was able to dig up, alongside prior info that we already know from previous quotes we've seen. What ratings are drawn from said info is for everyone else to decide.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Todash space isn't seeming 1-A, to me. At least going by those particular quotes. It seems to be consistently displayed as "inbetween the worlds of the Tower" but not "utterly beyond all levels of the Tower", considering the interaction. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Oh, right.

The reason this even connects to CK (or anyone else) in the first place is because Black Thirteen, an aspect of Dis which is animated by the latter's stolen eye, contains all of the evil of Todash Space within itself.

I covered that in this post.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Oh, right.
The reason this even connects to CK (or anyone else) in the first place is because Black Thirteen, an aspect of Dis which is animated by the latter's stolen eye, contains all of the evil of Todash Space within itself.

I covered that here already.

This sounds High 1-B, assuming Todash Space is also relative to every level of the Tower and that it's literal.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I got ninja'd there. Whoops.

1. The text is vague, but that's what I got from it. The general gist is that the space is still within the confines of the Tower, but is otherwise outside of the universes themselves. Ergo, it's between, like "the spaces between the inner and outer walls of a house" as Mia put it.

2. Black Thirteen's rating is reliant on what rating Todash Space qualifies for. That's pretty much been my point this entire time. If Todash Space is High 1-B, then Black Thirteen is High 1-B, and Dis is an astronomically higher degree of High 1-B. Same would have applied if Todash Space were 1-A.

 

[Aeyu]

Okay. This may sound confrontational but I don't mean it to be.

Can someone tell me the EXPLICIT requirements for 1-A?

Because they don't seem to line up with the tiering system page.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Don't look at me, dude.

 

[Jinsye]

looks harder

Uhh... complicated for a normie like me.

I always took 1-A as transcending all dimensions and having no limitations in dimensions.

But that's the oversimplified version.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I always took 1-A as transcending all dimensions and having no limitations in dimensions.

But that's the oversimplified version.

Usually, yeah. Just has to be made really clear.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

2. Black Thirteen's rating is reliant on what rating Todash Space qualifies for. That's pretty much been my point this entire time. If Todash Space is High 1-B, then Black Thirteen is High 1-B, and Dis is an astronomically higher degree of High 1-B. Same would have applied if Todash Space were 1-A.

I assume then, assuming Todash Space has shown or said to be between every layer of the Tower, its entirety would be High 1-B, parallel to the Tower itself.

 

[Aeyu]

1. Transcending dimensions is never equal to 1-A

2. Being dimensionless isn't always enough for 1-A

3. Transcending space and time isn't always enough for 1-A

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

1. It usually is, though. That's why we're making Gan the tier he is. Metaphysical being who transcends and predates an infinite-dimensional structure, being bound by none of its confines.

2. Correct.

3. Correct.