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Physics is also not entitled to the belief that buildings can be that paper thin and still stand when we clearly see thick concrete floors. Even Dragon Ball scientists aren't that dumb.
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The currently accepted DBS lifting strength calculation
- Thread starter GodlyCharmander
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GodlyCharmander
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"characterised by the use of glass, steel and reinforced concrete." =/= "mostly made out of X, Y and Z"
Either way,
Each Empire State Building floor weights 14 Tons, each floor being. Generally, each office floor’s height is around 3.9m
26.5/3.9 = 6.79487179487
14.819*6.79487179487 = 100.6 Tons (Class K)
Oh noo, consistency!!!! Who would have guessed?
GodlyCharmander
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- #43
You got to that conclusion through an invalid method. Please just get out of my face.
GodlyCharmander
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Let's say 7, because obviously you can't have 6.7 floors
14.819*7 = 103.7 Tons (Class K)
Oh noo, consistency!!!! Who would have guessed?²
Let's say 10 = 14.819*10 = 148.19 (Class K)
Oh noo, consistency!!!! Who would have guessed?³
Having to teach someone basic physics is just sad... Can we wait for a calc group member now?
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In the same link it claims the Empire State Building to be 1.5 million tonnes.
GodlyCharmander
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That is true. I got things mixed up, they claimed the first floor is 14000 Tons, not 14. I assume even someone like you knows it's bullshit, correct?
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I had my doubts with that link from the beginning.
GodlyCharmander
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The building weighs 365,000 tons and its volume is 37 million cubic feet. The exterior of the Empire State Building is composed of 200,000 cubic feet of Indiana limestone and granite, 10 million bricks and 730 tons of aluminum and stainless steel.
https://www.esbnyc.com/sites/default/files/esb_fact_sheet_4_9_14_4.pdf
https://www.esbnyc.com/sites/default/files/esb_fact_sheet_4_9_14_4.pdf
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Rock and bricks usually have similar densities depending on where you look. Only thing different is the aluminium and the stainless steel.
One question: What is the percentage of aluminium and steel within that 730 tons?
GodlyCharmander
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Great!
So you see how they assumed a hollowness for the volume, assumed the quantity of materials, and got to a MUCH inflated result? That's cool right?
Either way, the empire state building weights 350,000 Tons, it's 381m, we get ~130 tons for the DB building, it's the same calc I did before.
GodlyCharmander
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- #51
If you have a 350.000 Ton building, and 730 Ton of steel and aluminium... That's a very basic math problem.
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I should note that I remember seeing on wikipedia that 37 million cubic feet value as being the internal volume of the building.
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I was asking for general building percentages, not the mass of the Empire State Building itself.
GodlyCharmander
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- #54
Use the Empire State Building as your average building.
730/350000 = 0.00208571428*100 = 0.208571428%
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What I meant was...
What percentage of that 730 tons is aluminum, and what percent of that 730 tons is steel?
Is it 75% Al, 25% Steel? Or is it 50-50? Or is it some other percentage? That's what I mean.
GodlyCharmander
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Btw, this shouldn't be a debate, Square Cube Law is literally downscaling an already existing mass to a lesses proportion, it's already used in our wiki.
"In physics, an inverse-square law is any physical law stating that a specified physical quantity or intensity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source of that physical quantity."
It's used in accepted calculations
It's a requirement in evaluated calculations
The fact KLOL is opting for the less accurate method shouldn't be a factor, as they have literally zero authority or knowledge on the matter.
My point stands, the 26m building does not weight at Class M, this is literally impossible. I will wait for a Calc Group Member input.
"In physics, an inverse-square law is any physical law stating that a specified physical quantity or intensity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source of that physical quantity."
It's used in accepted calculations
It's a requirement in evaluated calculations
The fact KLOL is opting for the less accurate method shouldn't be a factor, as they have literally zero authority or knowledge on the matter.
My point stands, the 26m building does not weight at Class M, this is literally impossible. I will wait for a Calc Group Member input.
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I was specifically talking about this specific situation where the building has a different shape determined by pixel-scaling, not about the other ones.
But whatever. If you wanna go with inverse-square law for this one, I'll wait.
Just a note tho, even Kid Goku's boulder moving feat is hilariously superior to this.
GodlyCharmander
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I'm more calm now... The rectangular shape still constitutes 95% of the structure if we take the very slight edges. Square Cube Law still gives us a very accurate result comparing to another rectangular-shaped structure (with similar materials). Even taking less of the structure in consideration, we still get a very underwhelming result.
We can't really do much about that. I'll make a CRT about multipliers with Lifting Strength later on, and if it gets accepted, even Class M will be obsolete.
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Speaking of which, doesn't Goku lift up some sequioia tree in the early pages of DBZ? Or is that anime-exclusive?
GodlyCharmander
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GodlyCharmander
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Bump.
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I will help you out with that pokemon man. You can use my lifting strength multiplier blog if you want, it reaches class Y easily. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FluffyCreatureZ/Dragon_ball_lifting_strength
GodlyCharmander
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GodlyCharmander
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Bump
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I always considered the percentages for hollowness to be kind of arbitrary, perhaps some expermentation would be useful to find a more appropiated percentage; how? well, we can look for a known building with a tabulated weight, then pixel scale it and find its tentative weight, then divide the real weight by the tentative weight for it to be multiply it by 100: the result should be the hollowness percentage, at least for that type of buildings.
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Sounds like a good idea.
The empire state weights 365,000 tons and has a volume of 1047723.3239 cubic meters.
If the building were to be completely solid, it would weight:
1047723.3239 x 2400 = 2514535977.36 Kilograms or 2514535.97 Tons
2514535.97/365000 = 6.88 Times Heavier
Which would mean Buildings are 85% hollow instead of 80%?
The empire state weights 365,000 tons and has a volume of 1047723.3239 cubic meters.
If the building were to be completely solid, it would weight:
1047723.3239 x 2400 = 2514535977.36 Kilograms or 2514535.97 Tons
2514535.97/365000 = 6.88 Times Heavier
Which would mean Buildings are 85% hollow instead of 80%?
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Mmm, perhaps we would need a blog post in order to be evaluated, and then a thread to make it official.
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Although I ust say, that the building from the DBS calc do not seems to be made entirely made of metal, at least the inner floors seems to be made of concrete. The height scaling can also be improved, can't Zarbon's height be used instead (assuming it has an official one)?
I would also recommend using cubic law rather than pixel scaling, last one tend to not be very accurate, and objects aren't completely solid.
I would also recommend using cubic law rather than pixel scaling, last one tend to not be very accurate, and objects aren't completely solid.
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Already concluded that using metal was inaccurate, and that reinforced concrete is better to use.
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Were the changes applied the the appropiated profiles?
Either way, I found other way to find the real volume of a building: the Empire State weights 365*10^6 kg, 57*10^6 from which are steel, that means that the real volume is [(365 - 57)*10^6]/2400 + 57*10^6/7750 ~ 135700 m^3; comparing with ideal volume, the hollowness would be 135700/1047720*100 ~13% (if the rounds makes you feel uneasy, a more exact result would be 12.95%).
Either way, I found other way to find the real volume of a building: the Empire State weights 365*10^6 kg, 57*10^6 from which are steel, that means that the real volume is [(365 - 57)*10^6]/2400 + 57*10^6/7750 ~ 135700 m^3; comparing with ideal volume, the hollowness would be 135700/1047720*100 ~13% (if the rounds makes you feel uneasy, a more exact result would be 12.95%).
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So the building would only be 12.95% solid.
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I could make a thread tomorrow to standarize that value if people agree; although I do have my doubts if using the Empire State as reference, building is quite unique, but the true is that there's not several buildings out there with tabulating weight and volume.
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I was trying to convey a similar point that the Empire State Building by itself is unique, and that I wasn't sure if such a value could be applied to all buildings out there, as they're not all built this way, not to mention that not everyone gives out values for these things.
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At best, one could reasonable use that percentage with skyscraper-like buildings, but shouldn't be useful with other types of buildings, such shacks, houses, barns, mansions, palaces, castles, etc.
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