The Creator (Wizard 101) vs Amaterasu

[Regidian]

@Regidian there’s a MASSIVE difference between nonexistent physiology and existing beyond elements, one just gives you resistance to the abilities, the other makes you literally hard to affect conventionally

Non existant physiology type 2 is litteraly be transdual/not part of the binary/duality of existance and no existance....

Transduality type 2/3/4 are that in like every duality, i don't know why it's hard to understand, i don't know where you get existing beyond element when their exist beyond their duality, if all element are 0 and their opposite is 1 then transduality is being 2. So like NEP2 if you don't have show affecting it you should not be able to

Like even acausality type 5 who is the fact of transcending the normal causality system(who is too a part of duality) is a hard to affect conventionally feat (since need an higher type of conceptual manip)

 

[Theglassman12]

One does not grant you non corporeality conventional wise. I asked you before, when does duality like good and evil grant you the ability to not be affected normally? Or stuff light and darkness, or life and death? They don't grant you the ability to not be affected, they just give you innate resistances to whatever the duality involves to begin with.

 

[Lapsad]

You can touch them by normal punch , however its depend on dual system they have trans

 

[Regidian]

One does not grant you non corporeality conventional wise. I asked you before, when does duality like good and evil grant you the ability to not be affected normally? Or stuff light and darkness, or life and death? They don't grant you the ability to not be affected, they just give you innate resistances to whatever the duality involves to begin with.

Be transdual over life and death let you not be affect by hax using those since you don't have concept of live or dead etc same for most if the hax

 

[Regidian]

You can touch them by normal punch , however its depend on dual system they have trans

I talk about transduality type 2 and + so transcend all dual system

That will go with many thing since even the concept of affecting/not affecting is part of binary opposition/duality,

Since type 2 and 3 will be surely merged with the recent thread, i don't know if you need higher D hax too affect it or like acausality type 5 you need an higher type of conceptual manipulation to affect kt

 

[Theglassman12]

So once again, that's blatant resistance. Type 2 Transduality merely grants you resistances to whatever you exist outside of. Being unable to affect them in actuality, just translates to "they're resistant to the hax so you need to have stronger hax to get through it". With that being said existing outside of Phenomena Intervention's influence are a thing in Blazblue, and Amaterasu and other god tier characters can affect them, so I don't really see type 2 really helping the creator in the long run.

 

[Regidian]

So once again, that's blatant resistance. Type 2 Transduality merely grants you resistances to whatever you exist outside of. Being unable to affect them in actuality, just translates to "they're resistant to the hax so you need to have stronger hax to get through it". With that being said existing outside of Phenomena Intervention's influence are a thing in Blazblue, and Amaterasu and other god tier characters can affect them, so I don't really see type 2 really helping the creator in the long run.

That should be more than resistance (like how acausality is more than just resistance of causality manip etc ) since at least in the verse i know even being that bypass many layers of resistance are still not able to affect them since their a BIG difference between resist an ability but still be in the scope of the duality of this ability and not be a part of it.

So like i tell except if you tell that NEP2 and acausality are juste mere resistance then okay but if not then not

 

[InfiniteDay]

Creator FRA

 

[Regidian]

But anyway it's in weakness but some being have been affecting him when using this power?


"One must need to have specific ability or equipment to be invisible for Observers, such as Izayoi or the power of Chronophantasma, where you're in a state where you're neither existing nor not existing."

 

[Theglassman12]

Acausality is a different beast altogether, that merely gives you immunity to time paradoxes on top of a few resistances. Transduality in of itself just grants resistances. So it's not exactly the same comparison.

That is a weakness for normal Phenomena Intervention but other beings with Phenomena Intervention have been able to bypass that weakness altogether, so it's not really much of a factor here, especially given Amaterasu's being used.

@InfiniteDay What reason? the sleep spell? How does that stop PI that can affect beings that exist outside of it's influence normally?

 

[InfiniteDay]

But anyway it's in weakness but some being have been affecting him when using this power?


"One must need to have specific ability or equipment to be invisible for Observers, such as Izayoi or the power of Chronophantasma, where you're in a state where you're neither existing nor not existing."

Ama and PI can't affect Type 2 transdual.

 

[Theglassman12]

@InfiniteDay I already gave arguments for affecting someone on that level, did you bother reading that part?

 

[InfiniteDay]

Acausality is a different beast altogether, that merely gives you immunity to time paradoxes on top of a few resistances. Transduality in of itself just grants resistances. So it's not exactly the same comparison.

That is a weakness for normal Phenomena Intervention but other beings with Phenomena Intervention have been able to bypass that weakness altogether, so it's not really much of a factor here, especially given Amaterasu's being used.

@InfiniteDay What reason? the sleep spell? How does that stop PI that can affect beings that exist outside of it's influence normally?

Cannot affect Type 2 Transdual, bypassing weakness is not the same as affecting something you cannot effect, saying otherwise is NLF, and sleep spell because it will literally put her into eternal sleep, ie she cannot do anything.

 

[InfiniteDay]

@InfiniteDay I already gave arguments for affecting someone on that level, did you bother reading that part?

I did. Now give actual proof of an in-universe example of PI affecting Type 2 transduality. Hax that are apart of basic dualities won't help you.

 

[Theglassman12]

That's not even my point dude, I said PI can affect those that exist outside of its influence, so Type 2 transduality resistances doesn't matter here. Also putting her to sleep doesn't really work much here given she's always dreaming in the series, you're basically putting someone who's essentially already asleep, to be put to sleep. That doesn't really work.

 

[Regidian]

Acausality is a different beast altogether, that merely gives you immunity to time paradoxes on top of a few resistances. Transduality in of itself just grants resistances. So it's not exactly the same comparison.

That is a weakness for normal Phenomena Intervention but other beings with Phenomena Intervention have been able to bypass that weakness altogether, so it's not really much of a factor here, especially given Amaterasu's being used.

@InfiniteDay What reason? the sleep spell? How does that stop PI that can affect beings that exist outside of it's influence normally?

Causality and acausality are a duality so i don't see why, if acausality give immunity/resistance of some thing then being transdual should be even above.

I really don't see why being outside of the system of duality of the hax give just resistance of this hax, when this hax can't litteraly affect it because the transdual is not a part of the scope of the hax (except this hax have show it)

As exemple someone who can affect possibility of a being would not be able to affect the one of a transdual type 2/3/4 because the transdual don't have the concept of possibilty and certainty


And affecting that is oustide of his influence but still in part of the duality that the hax use should not be enough.

Exemple
Not because someone affect that is outside the existance that it can affect NEP2 (except transduality type 2 depend on the scope of the transdual)

 

[InfiniteDay]

That's not even my point dude, I said PI can affect those that exist outside of its influence, so Type 2 transduality resistances doesn't matter here. Also putting her to sleep doesn't really work much here given she's always dreaming in the series, you're basically putting someone who's essentially already asleep, to be put to sleep. That doesn't really work.

It does. Transduality counter every single PI hax because they are all apart of basic dualities and have not been shown to bypass Type 2 tranduality. Sleep does work here, because it 100% puts her to sleep eternally, unable to effect anything.

The absolute best Ama can get here is a incon.

 

[Regidian]

In reality it should be better to made this thread in pause and made a thread about transduality type 2 to see if ama should be able to affect it, because if she does she win and if not then don't know

 

[Theglassman12]

Whoopdie do, guess what, that doesn't work here because beings that exist outside of the influence of PI can be affected by the god tiers, type 2 in this instance doesn't work because they can affect beings that literally exist outside of the influence, so even if we're generous and say that type 2 covers all the abilities of PI (which you haven't proven because Blazblue and W101 aren't the same verses and don't have the exact same abilities), it will still work here.

No it doesn't. You're putting someone who's already asleep, into a sleep spell, that's not how it works here.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Whoopdie do, guess what, that doesn't work here because beings that exist outside of the influence of PI can be affected by the god tiers, type 2 in this instance doesn't work because they can affect beings that literally exist outside of the influence, so even if we're generous and say that type 2 covers all the abilities of PI (which you haven't proven because Blazblue and W101 aren't the same verses and don't have the exact same abilities), it will still work here.

No it doesn't. You're putting someone who's already asleep, into a sleep spell, that's not how it works here.

All PI powers are part of basic dualities that Type 2 covers. Beings that exist outside PI can be affected by god-tiers in your verse, nice! Now, they don't have type 2! You saw that correctly, type 2 just don't exist there. Also, that is complete NLF (stating that because PI can affect being outside PI, that they can affect type 2 transduality, even though they are completely not related). Verse doesn't matter, because all PI and W101 abilities fall under basic dualities, all of which The Creator doesn't abide by and resistes.

PI cannot make the impossible possible, which funnily enough, is a basic duality!

 

[Theglassman12]

That doesn't really matter here because type 2 just gives you resistances via existing outside of the influence. Existing outside of logic for Blazblue does just that and they can still be affected. No what is a NLF is claiming that every single ability from Blazblue won't work on W101 because you haven't proven whatsoever that W101 has the exact same abilities. Again basic dualities means jack shit when you can affect beings outside of the influence to begin with.

What does that have anything to do with this debate? like at all? Making the impossible possible doesn't matter here when it has feats on affecting beings with resistances via existing outside of the influence.

 

[Regidian]

That doesn't really matter here because type 2 just gives you resistances via existing outside of the influence. Existing outside of logic for Blazblue does just that and they can still be affected. No what is a NLF is claiming that every single ability from Blazblue won't work on W101 because you haven't proven whatsoever that W101 has the exact same abilities. Again basic dualities means jack shit when you can affect beings outside of the influence to begin with.

What does that have anything to do with this debate? like at all? Making the impossible possible doesn't matter here when it has feats on affecting beings with resistances via existing outside of the influence.

Just for being sure what you tell by their able to affect outside if their influence, what it's the outside of their influence feat? (Since you can still outside of the influence of an hax and being part of the duality)

 

[InfiniteDay]

That doesn't really matter here because type 2 just gives you resistances via existing outside of the influence. Existing outside of logic for Blazblue does just that and they can still be affected. No what is a NLF is claiming that every single ability from Blazblue won't work on W101 because you haven't proven whatsoever that W101 has the exact same abilities. Again basic dualities means jack shit when you can affect beings outside of the influence to begin with.

What does that have anything to do with this debate? like at all? Making the impossible possible doesn't matter here when it has feats on affecting beings with resistances via existing outside of the influence.

Because it is impossible for them to affect him. We should make a thread and ask if PI can affect Type 2. Existing outside PI, Trandsuality tracends PI, not just is outside it. Exact same abilities, once again, DO NO MATTER. All PI abilities fall under basic dualites.

Reg, can you make that thread?

 

[Theglassman12]

Falling under basic dualities means jack shit if you can affect beings that exist outside of it to begin with.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Regidian Beings that Exist outside of logic by default are unfazed by the effects of phenomena intervention. They're literally stated to be outside of it and any normal PI cannot affect them, on top of existing outside the fundamental rules of the world, which is the major aspect of it but still, when they're affected they're always treated like it's a big deal that they were able to be affected despite that being normally impossible.

 

[Regidian]

Because it is impossible for them to affect him. We should make a thread and ask if PI can affect Type 2. Existing outside PI, Trandsuality tracends PI, not just is outside it. Exact same abilities, once again, DO NO MATTER. All PI abilities fall under basic dualites.

Reg, can you make that thread?

I'm a little occupied so maybie later

@Regidian Beings that Exist outside of logic by default are unfazed by the effects of phenomena intervention. They're literally stated to be outside of it and any normal PI cannot affect them, on top of existing outside the fundamental rules of the world, which is the major aspect of it but still, when they're affected they're always treated like it's a big deal that they were able to be affected despite that being normally impossible.

Well technically being ouside of the logic ca' just let you being part of his opposite dual (so being illogic), but since i don't know how we do exactly with type 2 in vsb, i can't tell more than that

 

[Regidian]

Is why i talk about create a thread for talk about if ama can affect type 2 with this feat.


So if none of you two make it well i will make it

 

[Theglassman12]

There is a thread on changing transduality as a whole last time I checked, but as of now, I don't really see Transduality type 2 anything more than just resistances to whatever the verse has.

 

[Regidian]

There is a thread on changing transduality as a whole last time I checked, but as of now, I don't really see Transduality type 2 anything more than just resistances to whatever the verse has.

The thread is just about merging type 2 and 3 because now the "you can be type 3 only if 1-A" is not viable and it was the only difference Between the two

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Transduality can give you some good invulnerability (as good as NEP type 2) in some cases

 

[Regidian]

Transduality can give you some good invulnerability (as good as NEP type 2) in some cases

Do you know more about the some case? I know like just 2 being that have transduality type 2 lol

 

[Theglassman12]

@Regidian I'm aware of merging the two transdualities and removing another transdualities, I don't remember if it was concluded or not. Either way I need to check on some things if there's gonna be any changes that would apply to BB in regards to transduality.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Do you know more about the some case? I know like just 2 being that have transduality type 2 lol

Well, transcending the dichotomy of existence/non-existence, is one of them. You would be neither 1 (existence) nor 0 (non-existence), which, by our current standards, is how NEP type 2 operates. Now, if the verse already has NEP type 2 beings, then the transcendence over the dichotomy would actually grant a higher level of NEP type 2, if that makes any sense

 

[Regidian]

Well, transcending the dichotomy of existence/non-existence, is one of them. You would be neither 1 (existence) nor 0 (non-existence), which, by our current standards, is how NEP type 2 operates. Now, if the verse already has NEP type 2 beings, then the transcendence over the dichotomy would actually grant a higher level of NEP type 2, if that makes any sense

Like void shiki okay, and yeah it weirds in a sense lol

 

[Delta333]

so if hax can bypass resistance/immunity,it can work on transduality type 2 too?

 

[InfiniteDay]

so if hax can bypass resistance/immunity,it can work on transduality type 2 too?

Nope.

 

[Theglassman12]

For BlazBlue yes cause they have feats, also I checked on all the Wizard101 pages for the sake of argumentation, there’s like 8 abilities at bare minimum that Phenomena Intervention has that aren’t in any of the pages, which wouldn’t remotely be covered in Transduality type 2 for W101 cause there’s no proof it covers them.

 

[InfiniteDay]

For BlazBlue yes cause they have feats, also I checked on all the Wizard101 pages for the sake of argumentation, there’s like 8 abilities at bare minimum that Phenomena Intervention has that aren’t in any of the pages, which wouldn’t remotely be covered in Transduality type 2 for W101 cause there’s no proof it covers them.

We have went over this, Type 2 is very different then you put it. Blazblue can only affect Type 1, and you have provided 0 scans for Type 2.

 

[Theglassman12]

Everything you explained didn't remotely tell me anything beyond "they're resistant to abilities cause they exist outside of it's influence", something I explained Blazblue has with PI and they can affect them with no issue, also the burden of proof is on you to prove every ability from BB is also in W101 if we're seriously pushing for this logic. Cause I don't see subjective reality, quantum manipulation, absorption, memory manipulation, information/data manipulation, possession, and body puppetry in any of the pages for W101, and power mimicry too cause the scan for power mimicry doesn't tell me it's actual power mimicry, just creation.

 

[Delta333]

Nope.

But why?for example,if law manip of someone can work on characters who exist outside the law,that law manip can work on transduality type 2 too because transduality type 2 being also exists outside the law