Ovy7
He/Him- 2,509
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I mean, you know who I am referring to there, lol, but thank you for the reply!
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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"
- Thread starter Iamunanimousinthat
- Start date
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Instead of giving random descriptions, why not present a character and then start the evaluation from there.
Finally, we can now upgrade these characters to Tier 0.
Throughout Heaven and Earth, He alone is the Honored One.
He can do Anything.
True Manifestation of Tier 0.
Described to be Boundless.
She reacted to the Gun Devil.
He can do Whatever the **** He Wants.
Finally, we can now upgrade these characters to Tier 0.
Throughout Heaven and Earth, He alone is the Honored One.
He can do Anything.
True Manifestation of Tier 0.
Described to be Boundless.
She reacted to the Gun Devil.
He can do Whatever the **** He Wants.
Excellence616
He/Him- 5,349
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For Marvel, would anything change with your new Standards for Tier 1-A. Especially TOAA/TOBA?
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I'm knowledgeable enough on the verse in particular where you can quit the game where you describe the series in every way but name.
No, Veldanava's original state does not qualify. As far as I'm aware it lacks the essential evidence of ontological superiority.
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You ain't slick.
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I think this explains it quite well, maybe. Hehehe
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Lol! Bro why u gotta call out a man like that!? Blud got me cracking up like crazy on my couch, lol.
But thanks a lot man, now I can rest in peace
Well that is, if Fuse doesn't pull something out of his ass though.
Edit: Damn, didn't mean to double post, sorry fam.
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- Thread starter
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Do tier 0s have free will?
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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I will let you know when I reach it.
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I dunno, maybe you should ask them
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Why wouldn't they? What's stopping them? If there is, then they are no longer tier 0. But maybe you meant mindless? Then it honestly depends on the verse, something like the divine comedy's tier 0 most definitely has a will(conscious) of it self.
But stuff from journey to the west maybe different.
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"Free Will" as a concept is, to us, basically something that boils down to the ability to pick and choose between possibilities. A Tier 0 is the creator of all possibilities whatsoever, and isn't expressed in any of them (It's purely actual, and in no way possible), so the concept itself doesn't make much sense when applied to them.
That said, they're "free" in the sense that the effects of their singular eternal act don't really add anything whatsoever to their essence. So, pretty much in the sense of "Neither of these effects are incompatible with their nature."
Oh, of course. Tier 0s are totally self-sufficient, so, you could have a verse where the only cosmological structure around is the Monad and it'd still be Tier 0.
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So just to check, tier 0 characters can still actively choose to affect their verse right?
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Why are you assuming The Root is 0 ? I mean I understand the logic behind it but I don't think anything he said in the thread changes anything.
Tdjwo
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Huh? The Root is literally the textbook definition of a Monad. If you understand the logic behind it, then you understand why it would be Tier 0.
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Just as long as Nasu doesn't suddenly write a protag who reaches it somehow.
Tdjwo
He/Him- 2,944
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Nasu protags are always fodder (except bae Ryougi). Don't worry about that. Even top tiers in the verse can't reach it.
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Right, I should have said "as long as he doesn't have a female love interest reach it somehow."
Tdjwo
He/Him- 2,944
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Nah. They would get erased lol
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Seems like this is in part one of Deagon's concerns and I understand it.
There's likely a character with qualities pointing to Divine Simplicity but not necessarily being Tier 0, especially if they exist in a story with only a Low 2-C structure at most.
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Tdjwo
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Yeah I don't see any reason for Divine Simplicity or NT to grant a higher tier than R>F would, unless you just place theology on a pedestal for no particular reason.
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Requiring a tier 1 cosmology for a tier 0 is just extremely arbitrary. There would be no difference between a low 2-C structure and a high 1-A structure to said monad and due to how unreachable and ineffable said tier 0 is you could just say any 1-A or High 1-A cosmology also isn't sufficient enough since those tiers are as significant to said monad as like 11-C.
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if you're just above all attributes you're by definition above all possible qualitative jumps
Tdjwo
He/Him- 2,944
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Do you know how long Touko Aozaki has been trying to reach the root just to fail miserably. This is the same person that can create a platonic human. Nasu ain't letting no waifu reach the root ever.
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Mashallah.
I did already say that Tier 0 is cosmology-independent, didn't I?
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"Above all attributes" is an attribute.
This is just omnipotence but with extra illogical steps.
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doesnt denounce what i said
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This is my proposal for Tier 0, then.
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Will a NEW THREAD be opened for commoners? Discussing:
or will comments continue to be posted here? (Asking before this thread gets even more lengthy to follow)
Tiering System Revisions: Tier 0
or will comments continue to be posted here? (Asking before this thread gets even more lengthy to follow)
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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I respect both of you, because I can't understand any of the shit you are talking about. Is Deagonx's problem that the cutoff point for Tier 0 feels kind of arbitrary and mostly flowery and showy language rather than anything important enough to warrant such a rating?
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I'll take your word for it.
Serlock_Holmes
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No reason to create another thread. This is fine.
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good boy
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I think the R>F cutoff is mostly arbitrary but that was more last thread's problem. Currently I just don't feel that the theological concepts invoked in the current thread are worthy of being enshrined as the pinnacle of our tiering system.
Rabbit2002
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Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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While I disagree with the R>F and prefer it the new way, I do somewhat agree with what you are saying. Due to my ignorance I can't propose something else, but I do see the problem with it.
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