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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

Ultima_Reality said:
I'm certainly glad. I became disillusioned into thinking there was no possibility of change whatsoever, at one point. Also partly the reason I became so inactive for a while.
Click to expand...

Honestly, most people don't even care about how disillusioned the previous tiering system was, they're just trying to uphold this self promoted Prestige.
 
This monkey will be tier 0.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Sun Wukong (Journey to the West)

Sun Wukong was born from a magical stone formed from chaos. Upon hatching into the world he lived most of his life on The Mountain of Flowers and Fruit. There he joined and lived with a large group of monkeys eventually discovering a secret cave that the monkeys could use as their new home. The...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Grand_Saver_Ritsuka said:
By the way, does the presence qualify for Tier 0? I heard he is basically sentient monad
Click to expand...
I would probably say no tbh. The DC verse treats the presence as equivalent or the overvoid right?

And isn't the Overvoid treated as being the fiction itself in its entirety? With authors and things being above that? I think that'd disqualify it immediately.
 
He ascended to that level not that he is originally there.
He's not qualified.

In the story he has a beginning
Not that he was what was always was
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
He ascended to that level not that he is originally there.
He's not qualified.

In the story he has a beginning
Not that he was what was always was
Click to expand...
At that moment he is not him, he is a part of Dharmakaya. And Dharmakaya key encompasses on itself.

Dharmakaya key is purely Dharmakaya, not Wukong.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Something like "realizing "you" were always that thing" would count since in this case reality would basically just be an illusion and like in buddhism everything is inherently empty.
Click to expand...
That still falls under changing cause you yourself has limited your knowledge of yourself making your thoughts a part of your true being.

That falls on the Rule that they cannot be part of Omnipotent to be tier 0

One could argue via avatar but that would make you separate as an Avatar of the True being
 
Rakih_Elyan said:
At that moment he is not him, he is a part of Dharmakaya. And Dharmakaya key encompasses on itself.

Dharmakaya key is purely Dharmakaya, not Wukong.
Click to expand...
Then its Dharmakaya that is tier 0 not him

They are 2 distinct entities

Being one with the Omnipotent after Reaching it doesn't make you the omnipotent
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Then its Dharmakaya that is tier 0 not him

They are 2 distinct entities

Being one with the Omnipotent after Reaching it doesn't make you the omnipotent
Click to expand...
Yes it is Dharmakaya. But Wukong is submerged with Dharmakaya, he is just a single infinitesimal part of Dharmakaya.

But nah, that is just semantic.
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
That still falls under changing cause you yourself has limited your knowledge of yourself making your thoughts a part of your true being.

That falls on the Rule that they cannot be part of Omnipotent to be tier 0

One could argue via avatar but that would make you separate as an Avatar of the True being
Click to expand...
You realized that in order for wukong to "reach" or dissolve into Dharmakaya he would have to lose all sense of self or ego..
 
lets goooo this dude will be 1-A 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
vsbattles.fandom.com

The Player (Imscared)

The Player is the unnamed protagonist of the Imscared horror game. Almost nothing is known about them, and the border between the actual being behind the screen and the in-game avatar is vague at best. In VIP Badge.png, it shows the presumably faceless appearance of the player character...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
The Overvoid, specifically as it was described by Morrison, fits the bill for what a Tier 0 entity is.

It's just that Snyder kinda added some weird details to it such as the Multiverse being described as "floating" within it, which does not make much sense if it was a truly monadic entity that emanated the cosmology, and of course, Morrison defining it as the white page below the real world a couple of times, which Ultima has told me before probably does disqualify it from being flatout Monad 0.

Abolish the Overvoid-Source-Presence thing eitherway, that shit is straight up headcanon.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Something like "realizing "you" were always that thing" would count since in this case reality would basically just be an illusion and like in buddhism everything is inherently empty.
Click to expand...
So like the idea of Sunyata is potentially tier 0? I thought it was just 1-A under those standards.

I ask this because I know a verse that uses this concept and some other buddhist inspired ideas. It's not JTTW lol.
 
Last edited:
Phoenks said:
I would probably say no tbh. The DC verse treats the presence as equivalent or the overvoid right?

And isn't the Overvoid treated as being the fiction itself in its entirety? With authors and things being above that? I think that'd disqualify it immediately.
Click to expand...
No. After the cosmology split, there's three different versions of the Presence. For each cosmology, there's a different one.

The Divine Presence as seen in Dematteis Cosmology is the only thing that exist. Everything else is merely a dream/illusion born from its oneness beyond the infinite void. All things being mere drops of its divine consciousness. It can't be understood, only loved. When the Mahapralaya erased all things in an instant, Divine Presence instantly created it over again from beyond it. Birthing duality and so on.

So, in this cosmology specifically, the Presence has no equal. Anything you think is an equal is really just the Presence itself. Since only it truly exists and everything else is an illusion. This is already accepted by the staff in the cosmology blog as well. If you want to see what it mostly entails, it's in his section of it.
 
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