The Boys discussion thread

[SlendVeny]

... yes. That's not what I was arguing though? Just that sam and co don't scale at all to Homelander.

Yes, but his durability is specifically noted to be very high, so him being able to take hits isn't necessarily a debunk.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

There are scenes where he literally throws projectiles at the same speed as Homelander's heat vision.

That doesn't address the previous point. He clearly isn't a speedster and isn't as fast as the speedsters of the verse like A-Train, who have actual numbers to them, and those numbers aren't on par with Homelander.

Pretty much,
Black Noir < A-Train's 371 m/s record < Homelander's Mach 10 - 18 calc = Black Noir

Part of that doesn't add up

If you have decent proof that Black Noir > A-Train in speed, then I'd love to see it, but unless you have more consistant showings of Black Noir being a speedster and consistantly moving as fast as Homelander level characters, then that's just PIS

 

[Recon1511]

Could be that his heat vision isn't as fast as his movement speed as well

 

[Recon1511]

Hell I honestly think Butcher shouldn't even scale to Homelander Hypersonic+ rating, the series has failed to portray Homelander using his flight/running speed as equal to his combat speed

 

[Cropfist]

If this thread includes the comic, can we discuss the Diabolical episode having large town level and massively hypersonic feats?

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

If this thread includes the comic, can we discuss the Diabolical episode having large town level and massively hypersonic feats?

That episode isn't canon

Edit: Nvm, I didn't realize you were talking about the comics, not the show. My bad. Either way, the calcs look bad. It's confirmed he's going at Mach 2 at his fastest, and the calc doesn't take into account cinematic timing. We're viewing the event through a flashback iirc, so using the flashback time doesn't really do anything. For all we know, it took him over an hour to get that high. Also the cloud seperation feat assumes that the clouds were moving as fast as him. Where's the proof for that? You have to have solid proof those clouds were moving at mach 200, you can't just eyeball that

 

[Recon1511]

That episode might be canon to the comics though

 

[Recon1511]

Also MHS doesn't work when the guy at max speed was going at like Mach 2 according to Maeve

 

[SlendVeny]

That doesn't address the previous point. He clearly isn't a speedster and isn't as fast as the speedsters of the verse like A-Train, who have actual numbers to them, and those numbers aren't on par with Homelander.

Pretty much,
Black Noir < A-Train's 371 m/s record < Homelander's Mach 10 - 18 calc = Black Noir

Part of that doesn't add up

If you have decent proof that Black Noir > A-Train in speed, then I'd love to see it, but unless you have more consistant showings of Black Noir being a speedster and consistantly moving as fast as Homelander level characters, then that's just PIS

Eh, A-Train's thing is travel speed. Black Noir punching faster than A-Train can run isn't especially contentious.

Plus, I personally don't think Maeve got amped as much as we say she did off one season's training, and was probably somewhat similar to her post-training self beforehand, though that's not applicable to site statistics.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Eh, A-Train's thing is travel speed. Black Noir punching faster than A-Train can run isn't especially contentious.

Plus, I personally don't think Maeve got amped as much as we say she did off one season's training, and was probably somewhat similar to her post-training self beforehand, though that's not applicable to site statistics.

Characters like Kimiko get speed blitzed by A-Train. Kimiko faught just fine with Black Noir and wasn't getting speedblitzed like she was with A-Train.

Same thing with Starlight. She got statued by A-Train, but could keep up with Black Noir

Black Noir clearly isn't as fast as A-Train, as A-Train can statue and speed blitz people that can keep up with Black Noir

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Shouldn't Homelander have Low regeneration? He seemingly healed from his ear impalement from Maeve with no notable hearing problems in season 4. Also I believe he could receive a LS upgrade for the force he used to down a passenger plane mid flight. This likely meant he damaged a wing to the point that it was no longer possible to maintain flight which at minimum would mean a hole in it if not worse.

 

[SlendVeny]

Characters like Kimiko get speed blitzed by A-Train. Kimiko faught just fine with Black Noir and wasn't getting speedblitzed like she was with A-Train.

Same thing with Starlight. She got statued by A-Train, but could keep up with Black Noir

Black Noir clearly isn't as fast as A-Train, as A-Train can statue and speed blitz people that can keep up with Black Noir

Fair. I suppose we'll have to see how things go for A-Train vs Homelander in terms of speed.

 

[SlendVeny]

Shouldn't Homelander have Low regeneration? He seemingly healed from his ear impalement from Maeve with no notable hearing problems in season 4.

Vought has really good hospitals iirc, but I don't remember exactly how good.

 

[Recon1511]

Wouldn't it be better to just scale A-Train Combat Speed and Travel Speed separately? Same with Homelander

I can't remember a single time either of them used their speed to fight like throwing super fast punches or something

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

The Gen V cast will either scale from Luke reducing Brink to ashes (0.06-0.07 Tons I think)

What about Sam creating craters with the landing of his jumps?

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I think Homelander should have an upgrade (possibly/likely rating), considering he flew to Tall Rifaat (Syria) and Africa (but we don't know which country specifically) in a short amount of time.
Homelander should also get an LS upgrade, because he threatened to rip Hughie's spine out of his neck (Class K) in season 2

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

or even soldier boy's one to sleep and poison?

Soldier Boy have resistance to poison, acid, radiation and mind but not sleep

 

[Just_Butchering]

Yes, but his durability is specifically noted to be very high, so him being able to take hits isn't necessarily a debunk.

I seriously can't tell what it's even on stakes right now.

Hell I honestly think Butcher shouldn't even scale to Homelander Hypersonic+ rating, the series has failed to portray Homelander using his flight/running speed as equal to his combat speed

The show struggles with that, but regardless Homelander can move and react fast enough to save Butcher from an explosion.
So either he has an speed mode he refuses to use even against an (almost) equal, or that's is meant to be his normal combat speed.

Plus, I personally don't think Maeve got amped as much as we say she did off one season's training, and was probably somewhat similar to her post-training self beforehand, though that's not applicable to site statistics.

Maybe she should get "Accelerated Development". But she 100% got much stronger. Otherwise Annie and Kimiko are close to Homelander in strength.

What about Sam creating craters with the landing of his jumps?

I was gonna calc that, but since it's mostly soil, I doubt it would be anything higher than Wall level

Soldier Boy have resistance to poison, acid, radiation and mind but not sleep

He resisted Halothane, an anesthetic. Idk why it's listed like poison (I had brought that up before in a thread, same for a possible resistance to sleep from Annie and Noirr, but never got any attention)

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

He resisted Halothane, an anesthetic. Idk why it's listed like poison (I had brought that up before in a thread, same for a possible resistance to sleep from Annie and Noirr, but never got any attention)

Saying that being immune to an anesthetic is resistance to sleep manipulation is like saying that being immune to a venom is resistance to death manipulation.

An anesthetic is a drug, so it's resistance to poison manip

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Hell I honestly think Butcher shouldn't even scale to Homelander Hypersonic+ rating, the series has failed to portray Homelander using his flight/running speed as equal to his combat speed

Because it's a live action show with not a huge budget, that's why you don't see the Hypersonic or Transonic characters doing Dragon Ball-like fights.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I think Homelander should have an upgrade (possibly/likely rating), considering he flew to Tall Rifaat (Syria) and Africa (but we don't know which country specifically) in a short amount of time.
Homelander should also get an LS upgrade, because he threatened to rip Hughie's spine out of his neck (Class K) in season 2

Any opinion on this?

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

I think Homelander should have an upgrade (possibly/likely rating), considering he flew to Tall Rifaat (Syria) and Africa (but we don't know which country specifically) in a short amount of time.
Homelander should also get an LS upgrade, because he threatened to rip Hughie's spine out of his neck (Class K) in season 2

Unless we know how long it took Homelander to fly that distance, then that feat means nothing. Without time, we can't calculate speed

For the LS, Homelander is already possibly Class K, I think adding that threat under his Class K section should be fine

 

[Just_Butchering]

Saying that being immune to an anesthetic is resistance to sleep manipulation is like saying that being immune to a venom is resistance to death manipulation.

An anesthetic is a drug, so it's resistance to poison manip

Should be at least be rephrased to drugs, because it's not same as poison, and it's definitely not the same as novichok.

Also, since we are at it, any opinions on the Noir and Annie stuff? The gas knocked everyone out immediately except her and Noir.

Any opinion on this?

Any ideas of timeframes? even then, it could be just like the stormfront feat you brought in another thread and simply be travel speed.

As for the spine one, he already has a possible class K rating from an statement, I think this just make it a likely rather than a full on upgrade, but I wouldn't be against it either.

EDIT: Homelander should also get for his resistance to disease that he said that anthrax wouldn't do anything to him (or Ryan, so he should also get it)

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Should be at least be rephrased to drugs, because it's not same as poison, and it's definitely not the same as novichok.

“Poison” is a term that refers to a substance that sickens or kills someone when inhaled, it does not just mean venoms or toxins. Being unaffected by drinking bleach or expired meat is resistance to poison manipulation.

Also, since we are at it, any opinions on the Noir and Annie stuff? The gas knocked everyone out immediately except her and Noir.

Are you talking about the scene where Noir kidnaps Annie and her mother?

For the LS, Homelander is already possibly Class K, I think adding that threat under his Class K section should be fine

As for the spine one, he already has a possible class K rating from an statement, I think this just make it a likely rather than a full on upgrade, but I wouldn't be against it either.

The plane statement should be Class M I think, not Class K.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Saying that being immune to an anesthetic is resistance to sleep manipulation is like saying that being immune to a venom is resistance to death manipulation.

An anesthetic is a drug, so it's resistance to poison manip

He's still effected by marijuana and seems to be pretty effected as he starts experiencing straight up schizophrenia with all of the voices he's hearing. So he either smoked an entire smoke shops worth of weed or has an extremley low resistance to that type of drug

He's also implied to be knocked out by Bill Cosby's drinks and has taken drugs before. If he resisted the effects of the drugs, then there would be no reason to take them as he wouldn't get high off of them.

Also anestedics don't work that way. They don't work like traditional drugs

 

[Just_Butchering]

“Poison” is a term that refers to a substance that sickens or kills someone when inhaled, it does not just mean venoms or toxins. Being unaffected by drinking bleach or expired meat is resistance to poison manipulation.

Yeah but do consider yourself intoxicated if someone sedated you for an operation? If not sleep, then at least it should listed separately under "resistance to drugs" or something, like how MCU Cap America has resitance to drugs and alcohol.

Are you talking about the scene where Noir kidnaps Annie and her mother?

Yes, the gas immediately knocked everyone out except Annie and Noir.

The plane statement should be Class M I think, not Class K.

If you have any concrete numbers for it to be class M, then we could check it out.

He's still effected by marijuana and seems to be pretty effected as he starts experiencing straight up schizophrenia with all of the voices he's hearing. So he either smoked an entire smoke shops worth of weed or has an extremley low resistance to that type of drug

He's also implied to be knocked out by Bill Cosby's drinks and has taken drugs before. If he resisted the effects of the drugs, then there would be no reason to take them as he wouldn't get high off of them.

Also anestedics don't work that way. They don't work like traditional drugs

Fair, but then how do we list it? He smokes the halothane straight out of the can and give no f*cks lol

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Fair, but then how do we list it? He smokes the halothane straight out of the can and give no f*cks lol

I think the creators just overestimate weeds potency or he's smoking that GOOD shit

I think just a resistance to sleep inducing substances such as halothane should work, not nessicarally being poisoned. Granted, I feel like there was a scene where he said he couldn't get drunk or something, which would be a resistance to poison. Though I might be remembering wrong

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

The plane statement should be Class M I think, not Class K.

Boeing 747s only weight about 180 tons, so still Class K

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

He's still effected by marijuana

Where is it said or shown?

and seems to be pretty effected as he starts experiencing straight up schizophrenia with all of the voices he's hearing

It's just mental illness

He's also implied to be knocked out by Bill Cosby's drinks and has taken drugs before.

He's not implied that. He implies he knows Bill Cosby was drugging women. Soldier Boy is not a woman, Bill Cosby wouldn't have drugged him

Also anestedics don't work that way. They don't work like traditional drugs

It still remains a biological manipulation, it's not a supernatural thing that puts people to sleep

Boeing 747s only weight about 180 tons, so still Class K

I'm pretty sure it's a Boeing 737, not 747

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Yeah but do consider yourself intoxicated if someone sedated you for an operation? If not sleep, then at least it should listed separately under "resistance to drugs" or something, like how MCU Cap America has resitance to drugs and alcohol.

Either Poison or Status Effect

Yes, the gas immediately knocked everyone out except Annie and Noir.

So it seems to be the same case as for Soldier Boy

 

[Just_Butchering]

Where is it said or shown?

When they go for Mindstorm, butcher says he gave him weed, and both Billy and Hughie attribute the stuff he hears as hik bein baked.

It still remains a biological manipulation, it's not a supernatural thing that puts people to sleep

Resistance to sleep with a clarification that's only for chemicals would work just fine. Like, if he fights a guy with sleep magic, he is ******. But if it's a guy with sleep gas (like that one kid from MHA) then GG.

I'm pretty sure it's a Boeing 737, not 747

There's much difference in weigh?

So it seems to be the same case as for Soldier Boy

Then the answer I gave for SB applies to them then (because Annie also gets high on weed)

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Where is it said or shown?

It's just mental illness

Weed increases the amount of dopamine in your brain massivley, which can give you symptoms of schizophrenia as schizophrenia is pretty much just having a shit ton of dopamine in your brain. A pretty common symptom of being high off of weed is hearing/seeing things that aren't there, though typically its more minor than what Soldier Boy was experiencing

He's not implied that. He implies he knows Bill Cosby was drugging women. Soldier Boy is not a woman, Bill Cosby wouldn't have drugged him

"Holy shit, did he make some strong drinks"

This implies that he has had Bill Cosby's drinks, and likely experienced their effects of sleep manipulation

I'm pretty sure it's a Boeing 737, not 747

That's even worse, Boeing 737 planes only weigh 70 tons. That's Class 100

 

[Just_Butchering]

"Holy shit, did he make some strong drinks"

This implies that he has had Bill Cosby's drinks, and likely experienced their effects of sleep manipulation

The fact he takes it like "it was just strong" adds to him resisting sleep inducing chemicals

 

[ShionAH]

Hear me out, would Homelander gain resistances to all of Voughts weapons? Acid, Poison and etc.? Barbara says they had absolutely no power over him

 

[Just_Butchering]

Hear me out, would Homelander gain resistances to all of Voughts weapons? Acid, Poison and etc.? Barbara says they had absolutely no power over him

I mean, considering how it's the most powerful supe (and I think I had already made this comment) he should logically have the resistances of lesser supes (Like Vicky's to acid or Translucent with electricity). Hell, he should likely also resists poison and sleep gases just by default too since no one can stop him.

 

[ShionAH]

I mean, considering how it's the most powerful supe (and I think I had already made this comment) he should logically have the resistances of lesser supes (Like Vicky's to acid or Translucent with electricity). Hell, he should likely also resists poison and sleep gases just by default too since no one can stop him.

Wait maybe the "they threw every weapon on earth to him" can be used for quite a few resistances right?

 

[Just_Butchering]

Wait maybe the "they threw every weapon on earth to him" can be used for quite a few resistances right?

I don't think that statements holds that much weight in that regards. He already is bulletproof. At best, I think it supports other feats, but on it's own I wouldn't use it to, say, "oh there's his acidic weapon that exists, so he resists acid".

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Wait maybe the "they threw every weapon on earth to him" can be used for quite a few resistances right?

I think it's best to just wait until he actually shows those resistances on screen. We already talked about this statement earlier and how it's unreliable, so we shouldn't use it to justify making Homelander resistant to everything under the sun, and we should just have him be resistant to what he has been shown to be resistant too.

If Homelander eventually shows resistance to poisonous gasses, sleep manipulation, ect, I wouldn't be suprised at all. But we should wait until we actually see that before applying it, otherwise we're just assuming things

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Holy shit, did he make some strong drinks"

This implies that he has had Bill Cosby's drinks, and likely experienced their effects of sleep manipulation

Bill Cosby put drugs in drinks to rape women. Why would Cosby drug Soldier Boy? And if that was the case, that could just mean that Soldier Boy wasn't affected by the drug and mistook it for strong alcohol. Also, resisting one poison does not necessarily mean that you will resist another

That's even worse, Boeing 737 planes only weigh 70 tons. That's Class 100

My bad, I confused Class 100 and M. But yeah it's just Class 100 I think

If Homelander eventually shows resistance to poisonous gasses, sleep manipulation, ect, I wouldn't be suprised at all. But we should wait until we actually see that before applying it, otherwise we're just assuming things

A "likely resistance to poison, acid, etc" should be on his profile I think. Frenchie obtained and created Novichok for Soldier Boy and created acid for Neuman. Mallory hired Frenchie into the team because he neutralized several heroes thanks to his prep time. Homelander would already be dead if he didn't resist poison or acid

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Hear me out, would Homelander gain resistances to all of Voughts weapons? Acid, Poison and etc.? Barbara says they had absolutely no power over him

Yeah