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The Big Bleach Speed CRT

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Why Captains should not scale to that assassin attack speed?, even assuming he is the only one (false since they are basically a milatary corps with no substantial difference whatsoever never implied or mentioned in the series) but regardless of that, he is still a fodder, and a lot inferior to Soifon, so why they should not scale to his attack speed? It is pretty logical.

Note that: they have Lightning based kido too. Bykuya used a lightning kido against Ichigo in his fight (ss arc)
 
Tyri456 said:
Why Captains should not scale to that assassin attack speed?, even assuming he is the only one (false since they are basically a milatary corps with no substantial difference whatsoever never implied or mentioned in the series) but regardless of that, he is still a fodder, and a lot inferior to Soifon, so why they should not scale to his attack speed? It is pretty logical.

Note that: they have Lightning based kido too. Bykuya used a lightning kido against Ichigo in his fight (ss arc)
Click to expand...
The argument isn't that the captains shouldn't scale, I have no issue with that. The argument was giving this speed to non-captains from two years before.
 
Tyri456 said:
Why Captains should not scale to that assassin attack speed?, even assuming he is the only one (false since they are basically a milatary corps with no substantial difference whatsoever never implied or mentioned in the series) but regardless of that, he is still a fodder, and a lot inferior to Soifon, so why they should not scale to his attack speed? It is pretty logical.

Note that: they have Lightning based kido too. Bykuya used a lightning kido against Ichigo in his fight (ss arc)
Click to expand...

I don't think we generally scale abilities like that. Just because one low-ranking individual has a lightning-speed attack doesn't necessarily mean that a higher-rankings individual can match our surpass it.

And of course even if we did allow it, you're still trying to backscale this to characters from two and a half years ago, instead of just scaling it to characters in the present time in the novels.
 
"Just because one low-ranking individual has a lightning-speed attack doesn't necessarily mean that a higher-rankings individual can match our surpass it."
they should scale to the attacks unless you tryna say they cant dodge attacks from far lower ranking individuals which wouldnt make sense

"you're still trying to backscale this to characters from two and a half years ago, instead of just scaling it to characters in the present time in the novels."
why cant we do that? these assassins dont even have a shikai they are fodder
if they could reach that speed in just 2 years of training how fast is soi fon who tried to surpass yoruichi for 100 years?
it is safe and logical to backscale these assassins
 
@Zoro21043; and your evidence to support this is... where?

I notice you also said "lower ranking individuals" when you also don't have any evidence that this speed applies to every member of that rank.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Zoro21043; and your evidence to support this is... where?

I notice you also said "lower ranking individuals" when you also don't have any evidence that this speed applies to every member of that rank.
Click to expand...
0159-011.png
for soi fon this proves she was training for a 100 years
and for what i was arguing it doesnt matter if all or one of them has that attack speed
the fact that you think it shouldnt backscale means that you believe a random unseated no name shinigami managed to be faster than soul society arc captains which would be illogical
 
@Zoro21043; "Illogical" is an empty complaint unless you can prove it.

This is like complaining that Buu Saga Krillin, a completely fodder character in the grand scheme of things, can one-shot Saiyan Saga characters.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Zoro21043; "Illogical" is an empty complaint unless you can prove it.

This is like complaining that Buu Saga Krillin, a completely fodder character in the grand scheme of things, can one-shot Saiyan Saga characters.
Click to expand...
i didnt watch dbz but i know about it to an extent and i would see why you used krillin as an example but that doesnt help here
as i said soi fon trained for 100 years and if you dont want to backscale that means the 2 years the random assassin trained for > the 100 years a captain trained for
 
Damage3245 said:
@Zoro21043; how much did Soi Fon increase in speed over that 100 years?
Click to expand...
she currently scales to yoruichi if im not mistaken who got her speed from byakuya who got his from being faster than people who are faster than orihime who has a mhs calc(which is getting removed right?)? i think
so that means her speed is from a calc and we dont know how fast she was 100 years ago to say how much faster she got

either way you are dodging my main point there is no way for a no name soul reaper to have lightning speed attacks and a captain to not when they trained for 100 years
 
Damage3245 said:
@Zoro21043; "Illogical" is an empty complaint unless you can prove it.

This is like complaining that Buu Saga Krillin, a completely fodder character in the grand scheme of things, can one-shot Saiyan Saga characters.
Click to expand...
This is so wrong man, Bleach is no near like that, Omnistukido are extremely fodder, they are just a military corps that soifon doesnt even care of beacuse weak, everyone who read Bleach know this is a fact, this is just intellectual honesty; thinking Captain level who learned Bankai are slower than him is just wrong, they do not even have a shikai. This is even without taking into account that this Assassin is realistically equal to his friends. The narrative never suggest othwerwise sice it treat him as the others.

Also terms like "possible", "likely", exists and can be used; at least to avoid situation of an Assassin blitzing and soloing the SS arc by himself.
 
@Tyri456; it hasn't even been proven that this is the assassin's regular combat speed and not just an attack speed. Or that we should apply this to everybody, or why we should backscale this all the way to the Soul Society arc.

This honestly feels like saying "You don't think a Vice Captain could be faster than a Captain, do you? Therefore Renji's FTL calc should apply to all Captains in every arc."

That's not exactly what you're saying, but that's the same kind of logic I'm seeing be thrown around here.

Just avoid making an awful number of assumptions - scale the characters off the calcs we have to work with.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Tyri456; it hasn't even been proven that this is the assassin's regular combat speed and not just an attack speed. Or that we should apply this to everybody, or why we should backscale this all the way to the Soul Society arc.

This honestly feels like saying "You don't think a Vice Captain could be faster than a Captain, do you? Therefore Renji's FTL calc should apply to all Captains in every arc."

That's not exactly what you're saying, but that's the same kind of logic I'm seeing be thrown around here.

Just avoid making an awful number of assumptions - scale the characters off the calcs we have to work with.
Click to expand...
There's no comparison between a main character been Captain level as a lieutenant and a background character who is weaker than a Captain.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Tyri456; it hasn't even been proven that this is the assassin's regular combat speed and not just an attack speed. Or that we should apply this to everybody, or why we should backscale this all the way to the Soul Society arc.

This honestly feels like saying "You don't think a Vice Captain could be faster than a Captain, do you? Therefore Renji's FTL calc should apply to all Captains in every arc."

That's not exactly what you're saying, but that's the same kind of logic I'm seeing be thrown around here.

Just avoid making an awful number of assumptions - scale the characters off the calcs we have to work with.
Click to expand...
even if this is his attack speed only
so assassin attack speed >ss arc captain attack speed??

and renji is a vice captain with a bankai who trained with squad zero who was shown to be superior to 2 captains(rose and kensei) thats not a good example
 
Zoro21043 said:
even if this is his attack speed only
so assassin attack speed >ss arc captain attack speed??

and renji is a vice captain with a bankai who trained with squad zero who was shown to be superior to 2 captains(rose and kensei) thats not a good example
Click to expand...

Why not? If you disagree, then prove it. Don't just say "This is ridiculous, I can't believe this."
 
AppleLord said:
There's no comparison between a main character been Captain level as a lieutenant and a background character who is weaker than a Captain.
Click to expand...
I agree. You'd have to ignore all context about what makes Renji that strong/fast in order to try and apply his calc to every single Captain.

That's why we don't do that - and I'm not advocating that.
 
Zoro21043 said:
i wont repeat the same argument again reread what i said about soi fon
Click to expand...

You've just said that Soi Fon after training for a hundred years scales to Yoruichi, who scales to Byakuya, who scales to less than Bankai Ichigo.

So where is the evidence that she actually scales to the attack speed of some assassin from 2.5 years into the future?

Connect the dots Zoro, you can't just say "Therefore Soi Fon = Dude in the future."

That's not how scaling works.
 
Damage3245 said:
You've just said that Soi Fon after training for a hundred years scales to Yoruichi, who scales to Byakuya, who scales to less than Bankai Ichigo.

So where is the evidence that she actually scales to the attack speed of some assassin from 2.5 years into the future?

Connect the dots Zoro, you can't just say "Therefore Soi Fon = Dude in the future."

That's not how scaling works.
Click to expand...
you arent thinking about it enough
1- the assassin has lightning speed attack he got it either by training or already was that fast 2 years ago
2-if he was that fast 2 years ago soi fon should scale above as otherwise it would mean a fodder character can blitz a captain
3-if we say he trained to get there that means it took him 2 years
4-we know soi fon trained for 100 years she logically should be at least lightning speed
 
1- the assassin has lightning speed attack he got it either by training or already was that fast 2 years ago
Click to expand...

Or he got it through his ability. Just because one character can shoot lightning doesn't mean anybody else necessarily has to be that fast.

See the example I mentioned earlier with creating a laser beam. Just because somebody theoretically could have Speed of Light attack speed, does not mean they have Speed of Light reactions.

2-if he was that fast 2 years ago soi fon should scale above as otherwise it would mean a fodder character can blitz a captain
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. The assassin's reaction speed doesn't scale so he could still be blitzed by Soi Fon before he uses his ability.

3-if we say he trained to get there that means it took him 2 years
4-we know soi fon trained for 100 years she logically should be at least lightning speed
Click to expand...

One character training for X period of time to reach Y speed does not mean that another character training for X time will achieve Y speed.

Some characters train for years to unlock their Bankai. Ichigo trained for a few days and he unlocked his.
 
Damage3245 said:
Or he got it through his ability. Just because one character can shoot lightning doesn't mean anybody else necessarily has to be that fast.

See the example I mentioned earlier with creating a laser beam. Just because somebody theoretically could have Speed of Light attack speed, does not mean they have Speed of Light reactions.



Not necessarily. The assassin's reaction speed doesn't scale so he could still be blitzed by Soi Fon before he uses his ability.



One character training for X period of time to reach Y speed does not mean that another character training for X time will achieve Y speed.

Some characters train for years to unlock their Bankai. Ichigo trained for a few days and he unlocked his.
Click to expand...
Invalid because Ichigo used a shortcut method to achieve his Bankai. This shortcut is designed to actually achieve Bankai in a extremely short amount of time. Also if I'm not forgetting, isn't Suì-Feng from a noble house as Well? Albeit lower rank than the 5 great ones?
 
I want to know if other mods are still supporting damage in his arguments ?

None of those arguments actually make sense. Rather they are being twisted just to stop the upgrade. Comparing Renji and Ichigo to fodders to make a point is seriously the height of dishonesty.

by Damage's argument I can say since Naruto and Sasuke were planetary level when they were genin therefore Most chunin should be higher.

He is seriously arguing for the fodders to be fastest in whole SS arc. From that point alone one could tell this is not even about honest judgement anymore. It's about him not being able to back down.
 
@CloudStrife; it's an analogy for pity's sake.

You saying "I can say since Naruto and Sasuke were planetary level when they were genin therefore Most chunin should be higher." is the exact kind of logic that I'm arguing against.

Nobody is arguing for fodder to be the fastest in the Soul Society arc.

You're inventing strawman arguments instead of paying attention to what is being written.
 
Fine.
Then I will start at the beginning. With Power system of bleach.

Gentei Kaijo.
Or
Shinigami Badge.

Their features are enough to prove
More Reiatsu = increase in stats ?
 
No. I am just talking about this to make a point on the earlier topic.

So does that mean you agree with it ?

Gentei Kaijo,
Shinigami batch
prove that more SE = more of all stats ?
 
CloudStrife00T said:
No. I am just talking about this to make a point on the earlier topic.

So does that mean you agree with it ?

Gentei Kaijo,
Shinigami batch
prove that more SE = more of all stats ?
Click to expand...

In general, yes. More powerful character tends to be faster. I don't think we can claim it as an absolute rule but as a general thing, sure, I think most people would agree with that.

I think I can see where you're going to go with this; but I don't think that this is something that applies to specific abilities. Gin for example claims to have the fastest Zanpakuto around (at the time) but he is pretty far from being the most powerful character.

Candice can create lightning - which naturally travels at the speed of lightning - and it isn't suggested that the speed of her lightning attacks is dependent on how powerful she is as far as I can recall.

So if you're going to say something along the lines of: "Soi Fon has more spiritual energy than no-name fodders, therefore she should be faster than their attacks", I would disagree with you.
 
This is the power system.
Prove it that it is wrong.

Gin's example is not valid since that is speed of his zanpakuto.
Candice and Kido's and Corps are in the same yet different category.
Kido's are lightning speed. Assassin is lightning speed.
Candice is an exception since even though she uses lightning as an element she is faster than that.

If you are rejecting power system then come up with a prove that sometimes it is different.
 
@CloudStrife; I don't need to reject the power system... Your argument just doesn't seem to be relevant to the current discussion.

@TOAAPRESENCE1; have you got anything meaningful to contribute? Complaining about downplay is no different than if I just started complaining about all the wanking that some supporters are doing here.
 
Yes it is. You yourself told me where my argument was going.
The whole thing is relevant.

You cannot say something is irrelevant when it doesn't fit your argument.

Just prove it or we can move on with the simple fact that Captain are faster than fodder assassins'.
 
CloudStrife00T said:
Yes it is. You yourself told me where my argument was going.
The whole thing is relevant.

You cannot say something is irrelevant when it doesn't fit your argument.

Just prove it or we can move on with the simple fact that Captain are faster than fodder assassins'.
Click to expand...

The burden of proof is on you. You can't just say "Bleach's power system = Reiatsu = speed, therefore Captains > Lightning speed."

That's now how this works.

This is like trying to argue that Naruto is faster than lightning because a character weaker than him used a Lightning jutsu. It's just unrelated information.
 
Since when did the power system stop mattering for power scaling ?

I even asked about the new changes in cosmology about how lightning spiritual particles move at lightning speed would change the whole thing and how we see speed in verse. You said that is irrelevant.

Stop treating people like idiots just so that you can put hypersonic on bleach pages.
 
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