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The Big Bleach Speed CRT

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Shadowbokunohero said:
We argued this already.
Click to expand...
And I won that point, but pop off.

Shadowbokunohero said:
ill tell you what let's get more people to look at the thread and start counting votes.
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As far as I can tell: Purgy, Sigurd, Tyri, Cloud, Potato, TOAA, Dangai, (I think Warren but I don't remember) agree with me.

While: Jvando, Matthew, DDM, Duedate, (maybe ProfKukui or he might be neutral), you agree with Damage.

I may have missed some.

Damage3245 said:
More speed = more power. Right after Ichigo being blocked by Byakuya's Bankai, Ichigo increases his speed significantly. Then he says he can go even faster.

And right after that, Ichgio has his feat of deflecting the Bankai.
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More speed =/= more AP, it only holds true if the mass behind the swings didn't change.
 
I am sorry but I think that Ichigo's power were volatile during the battle. If his power was X when he first released his bankai then during this feat his power was at its peak which is X+1 after the feat his power was X-1 and X-2 and so on until Hollow takes over.

Can someone tell me how does that affect the feat?

btw that more speed = Ap. Not really sure in this case that would work.
I agree he is using more AP but he is continuously changing directions of sword attack so he has to apply double the force at the end of one swing to maintain that speed while moving in another direction to keep the constant flow of attacks with same power and speed.
 
Curiously, has there ever actually been a single time in Bleach where moving twice as fast gave a character significantly higher AP?
 
Kubo has huge respect for kendo ans sword art, that is why for him the difference between 1 Hand with 2 hand is that important, as it is, the difference to fight without an arm, for him is very important in terms of power, and alwyas potrayed into the manga.
 
Purgy said:
@Damage3245 Which is the best you can use, unquantifiably above 2x.
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... I went over this earlier, but Arc7Kuroi's own calc assumes that Ichigo swung his sword hundreds / thousands of times faster than Byakuya's Bankai.

Perhaps "assumes" is the wrong word; but that Ichigo being that much faster is a consequence of the assumptions behind the calc.
 
Damage3245 said:
That calc relied on the assumption that Ichigo only doubled his speed.
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Alright let me address this again.

We know Ichigo used his full body of mass m in the attack that Byakuya blocked, and let's assert it had speed = v.
His KE is .5mv^2

We know Ichigo only used his arm (about 5% of your body mass) when deflecting the petals, and let's assert it had a speed w.
His KE is .5(.05m)w^2

To assert Ichigo swung with more AP you'd have to prove v^2 < .05w^2 or that w > squareroot(20)v. You cannot due that thus you cannot argue he swung with more AP.

Ichigo blocking the petals is faster than when he attacked Byakuya, by how much we don't know, therefore you cannot assert definitively that his strike had more AP.
 
"he is continuously changing directions of sword attack so he has to apply double the force at the end of one swing to maintain that speed while moving in another direction to keep the constant flow of attacks with same power and speed." Will this affect the calc in anyway ?
 
@Damage3245 I'm going to be honest with you, calcs aren't my thing, I can't really debate with you over that.

I can read Arc7Kuroi's calc and yours to an extent and understand them, but the mechanics behind them not really.
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Even Yhwach explains to Yama how he got weaker with a single arm lol. Imagine if he could just shunpo with 1 arm and still be as strong.
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That's a painful misunderstanding of Yhwach's speech.

Yama didn't get weaker because he was missing an arm. He was weaker because he didn't want to depend on a human girl. He goes into detail on this.
 
Damage3245 said:
... I went over this earlier, but Arc7Kuroi's own calc assumes that Ichigo swung his sword hundreds / thousands of times faster than Byakuya's Bankai.
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I debunked this, because this assumes Byakuya's petals were able to move continuously.

Byakuya's petals can't phase through other petals, so if there's a petal in the way, the one behind it must wait it's turn.

So you can't assert that Ichigo is 1000s of times faster than Senbon.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yes we see that Ichigo starts his attack below Byakuya's waist line, then we see speed line that indicate Ichigo attacked from above. This means Ichigo jumped up and came down on Byakuya, which would include his full body weight. I can provide the calc again if you'd like.
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Ichigo lands and then swings his sword, he does not come down with the weight of his full body.
 
Damage3245 said:
That's a painful misunderstanding of Yhwach's speech.

Yama didn't get weaker because he was missing an arm. He was weaker because he didn't want to depend on a human girl. He goes into detail on this.
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I’m aware. But whydo you think he mentioned that girl? Obviously it’s because he’s handicapped... Or do you think a single arm had no effect?
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Alright let me address this again.

We know Ichigo used his full body of mass m in the attack that Byakuya blocked, and let's assert it had speed = v.
His KE is .5mv^2

We know Ichigo only used his arm (about 5% of your body mass) when deflecting the petals, and let's assert it had a speed w.
His KE is .5(.05m)w^2

To assert Ichigo swung with more AP you'd have to prove v^2 < .05w^2 or that w > squareroot(20)v. You cannot due that thus you cannot argue he swung with more AP.

Ichigo blocking the petals is faster than when he attacked Byakuya, by how much we don't know, therefore you cannot assert definitively that his strike had more AP.
Click to expand...
Damage you have to prove this to claim he swung with more AP.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I debunked this, because this assumes Byakuya's petals were able to move continuously.

Byakuya's petals can't phase through other petals, so if there's a petal in the way, the one behind it must wait it's turn.

So you can't assert that Ichigo is 1000s of times faster than Senbon.
Click to expand...

Wait it's turn... In a feat that lasted according to you 1.87 seconds? How long as these petals waiting for exactly?

And also, don't these streams of Senbonzakura petals move as a large mass? Where do you see Byakuya's petals waiting in line for their chance to go in and attack Ichigo?
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Ichigo lands below Byakuya's waistline -> then Ichigo comes down on Byakuya above his waistline
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He didn't jump to do that, he just stood up and brought his sword down. The panels indicate no such second jump after landing and in the anime we're shown him standing up and then swinging his sword down.
 
Damage3245 said:
And also, don't these streams of Senbonzakura petals move as a large mass? Where do you see Byakuya's petals waiting in line for their chance to go in and attack Ichigo?
Click to expand...
We don't see how the petals approach Ichigo so why assume anything about their movement.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
We don't see how the petals approach Ichigo so why assume anything about their movement.
Click to expand...
We don't see Ichigo shaving off single layers of a 1000 petals at a time across the exact length of his blade, so why assume that too?
 
Duedate8898 said:
He didn't jump to do that, he just stood up and brought his sword down. The panels indicate no such second jump after landing and in the anime we're shown him standing up and then swinging his sword down.
Click to expand...
That would still mean Ichigo put more than just his two arms into it.
 
So both arguments become invalid. So you are saying that whole feat is invalid ? If so then can you tell feats that are valid so we can calc them ?
 
Ichigo only says "I can go faster".

The only valid assumption is that he sped up.

Assuming Ichigo got stronger or anything else is unfounded.

Also, swinging with 1 hand vs 2 hands is a huge point in Bleach, it's emphasized multiple times that 1 hand is inherently weaker.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
You're right we see him shave off about 69 petals with 23 swings, so let's say 3 petals per swing.
Click to expand...
Calc it that way. I'm curious to see what the result is and how consistent it is.
 
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