The Battle of the Strongest

[CryoTheMayo]

I once did Golden Frieza (Broly Saga) vs Ultimate Gohan (Super Heroes) and it was declared a stomp in Gohan's favor. Perhaps SSJ Gohan vs Golden Frieza?

The wiki concluded that Base Gohan scales to 6 Universes because he vaguely scales to a suppressed Gamma 1 who Piccolo said was vaguely comparable to Goku.

So it's something like:

SS1 Gohan (SH) > (50x) > Base Gohan (SH) ~ Gamma 1 (Suppressed) ~ Goku Blue (SH, Hypothetical) > (2 years training) > Goku Blue (Broly) > Goku Blue (Post-UIS2) > UIS1 Goku = 6 2-C​

For Golden Freeza it's:

SS1 Broly > (50x) > Wrathful Broly ~ Goku Blue (Broly) > Goku Blue (Post-UIS2) > UIS1 Goku = 6 2-C​

Which puts Golden Freeza somewhere between SS1 and Wrathful. Suffice to say the scaling chain for Gohan is too large for Freeza.

Even if I presume Piccolo didn't see Goku since the Broly movie:

SS1 Gohan (SH) > (50x) > Base Gohan (SH) ~ Gamma 1 (Suppressed) ~ Goku Blue (Broly) > Goku Blue (Post-UIS2) > UIS1 Goku = 6 2-C​

So you could argue SS1 Gohan (SH) is equivalent to SS1 Broly (Broly) because Base Gohan is scaled to Suppressed Gamma 2, when suppressed Gamma 2 was compared to Goku by Piccolo. Meaning SS1 Gohan would stomp Freeza like how Broly stomped him.

And no, Base Gohan wouldn't work. Because he should get stomped by Golden Freeza based on the scaling chains and where EXACTLY Base Gohan scales is a bit unclear anyways.

tl;dr
I don't think there are any good matchup choices here because Gohan's scaling is a mess to understand and Gohan either stomps or is stomped depending on the form used. The only 'Gohan vs Freeza' matchup that even remotely works scaling-wise is from the ToP. It's the only time they're explicitly comparable.

 

[MrLuk2000]

Maybe Base Gohan vs Golden Frieza (Broly)?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Maybe Base Gohan vs Golden Frieza (Broly)?

I mean you can try? But that's going to be a bit of a pain to work out because it's either:

Golden Freeza (Broly) >> SSB Goku (Broly) ~ Gamma 2 (Suppressed) ~ Base Gohan (SH)
or
Golden Freeza (Broly) ? SSB Goku (SH) ~ Gamma 2 (Suppressed) ~ Base Gohan (SH) > SSB Goku (Broly)

If you presume Piccolo hasn't seen Goku or Vegeta's power since Broly, Golden Freeza would curbstomp Base Gohan. He can take SS1 Broly (50x SSB Goku roughly) for over an hour before going down. Base Gohan wouldn't be able to do a damn thing. On the other hand if you presume Piccolo is aware of Goku's power in SH...well how can we even calculate that? He trained offscreen for two years after Broly. How strong is he? Nobody knows. So nobody knows how strong Gohan could be.

So either Golden Freeza stomps Base Gohan into the dirt or Gohan has totally unknown power scaling to a Goku who trained another two years who has a totally unknown power increase.

The ways we can view SH Gohan (any form) vs Golden Freeza (Broly) are either stomps for Gohan, stomps for Freeza or totally inconclusive with lacking information.

 

[MrLuk2000]

Changed it too Golden Frieza vs SSJ Gohan

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Okay. As I've already stated the scaling chain for SS1 Gohan seems to be:
SS1 Gohan (SH) > (50x) > Base Gohan (SH) ~ Gamma 1 (Suppressed) ~ Goku Blue (SH, Hypothetical) > (2 years training) > Goku Blue (Broly) > Goku Blue (Post-UIS2) > UIS1 Goku = 6 2-C

Whereas Golden Freeza would be:
SS1 Broly > (50x) > Wrathful Broly ~ Goku Blue (Broly) > Goku Blue (Post-UIS2) > UIS1 Goku = 6 2-C

So the matchup counts on:

• How much Goku grew stronger in 2 years
• Whether or not Piccolo is aware of that increase

My proposition is that it's most reasonable to just assume Piccolo was comparing Gamma 2 to Goku Blue (Broly) as we have no idea how much stronger Goku has become in two years or if Piccolo is even aware of what that increase might be.

That would make the scaling chain:
SS1 Gohan = SS1 Broly > (50x) > Wrathful Broly ~ Goku Blue (Broly) ~ Gamma 2 (Suppressed) = Gamma 1 (Suppressed) ~ Base Gohan

Golden Freeza was able to endure SS1 Broly for over an hour so it's fair to assume he can also handle SS1 Gohan for over an hour. However we have to take into account whether or not Gohan has the 'limitless stamina' Broly is said to have in the Light Novel. I doubt he does so he'd be growing weaker over that hour.

On the other hand though Gohan actually has control of his emotions and can think so even if he has more limited stamina he can also reason and figure out he needs to put Freeza down before he gets exhausted.

---

Freeza is speed equal with Gohan and has the durability to endure him for long periods so his main win cons are:

• Blowing up the planet to kill Gohan via suffocation
• Relying on Death Saucer to make up for the AP gap (and we know he can control at least two at a time)

Gohan is speed equal but has superior power (at least twice as much power at a minimum) but Freeza has shown he can endure Broly-levels of power for over an hour so:

• Can think clearly and control his emotions (unlike Broly)
• Is aware of the Destructo Disc so he will likely recognise Death Saucer and try to avoid it, probably opting to just overpower it with his much greater power

Since Gohan will recognise the properties of Death Saucer and will opt to blow the discs up, that leaves Freeza with only one realistic wincon. Blowing up Beerus' Planet for the oxygen deprivation. And since they are speed equalised Freeza could feasibly pull that off. He just needs to endure Gohan long enough to realise he has to do it and then blow the planet up.

---

tl;dr
The only wincon for Freeza is blowing up the planet. He has the durability to endure Gohan long enough to realise that and with speed equalised he has better odds of pulling it off. The only question is if Gohan can stop it in time.

So this ENTIRE FIGHT hinges on whether or not Freeza can get away with blowing the planet up.

 

[NishizumiShiho]

Ki is made of right mindness as well, so being in an unstable state of mind, aka a berserker state, would weaken one's Ki, and as such strength as well

Is this why Broly getting stomped by Blue Gogeta?

 

[MrLuk2000]

Since Frieza's only wincon is by nuking the planet I think Gohan has the better chance of winning

Going off by Cryo's reasoning with Gohan being bloodlusted he won't mess around and just aim for the kill knowing how much of a threat Frieza is and even in character Gohan's cockiness has already been addressed by Piccolo. Most case scenario, Gohan will pummel Frieza into oblivion before finishing him off with a Ki attack such as a Masenko or Kamehameha.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Since Frieza's only wincon is by nuking the planet I think Gohan has the better chance of winning

Going off by Cryo's reasoning with Gohan being bloodlusted he won't mess around and just aim for the kill knowing how much of a threat Frieza is and even in character Gohan's cockiness has already been addressed by Piccolo. Most case scenario, Gohan will pummel Frieza into oblivion before finishing him off with a Ki attack such as a Masenko or Kamehameha.

My issue is whether or not Gohan can actually do that quickly. As the most reasonable scaling chain I used (based off profiles and what we know) would put SS1 Gohan around SS1 Broly-level.

Broly, going berserk, only managed outlast Freeza after so long. Sure he didn't finish Freeza off but I think a raging Broly taking that long says quite a bit about Freeza's endurance. And when contemplating their differences, Broly is stated to have lost no stamina from that battle and I don't think Gohan would be the same, I'm pretty sure he would get weaker over time which would make him deal less damage and get slower, giving Freeza more of a chance to nuke the planet.

Another thing to note is that Freeza is able to paralyse opponents significantly stronger than him for multiple seconds, which would be more than enough time to blow up the planet. It doesn't seem to take him that much power or effort to do as it takes him only a single second to cast and fire.

So in my head the way it would go is:

1. Bloodlusted Gohan aims to kill
2. Freeza endures his blasts and blows for a while while biding his time
3. Gohan starts to slack from his stamina draining
4. Freeza immediately paralyses him with Imprisonment Ball the moment an opening is made
5. In the few seconds he gets, he blows up the planet
6. Gohan suffocates to death

 

[MrLuk2000]

My issue is whether or not Gohan can actually do that quickly. As the most reasonable scaling chain I used (based off profiles and what we know) would put SS1 Gohan around SS1 Broly-level.

Broly, going berserk, only managed outlast Freeza after so long. Sure he didn't finish Freeza off but I think a raging Broly taking that long says quite a bit about Freeza's endurance. And when contemplating their differences, Broly is stated to have lost no stamina from that battle and I don't think Gohan would be the same, I'm pretty sure he would get weaker over time which would make him deal less damage and get slower, giving Freeza more of a chance to nuke the planet.

Another thing to note is that Freeza is able to paralyse opponents significantly stronger than him for multiple seconds, which would be more than enough time to blow up the planet. It doesn't seem to take him that much power or effort to do as it takes him only a single second to cast and fire.

So in my head the way it would go is:

1. Bloodlusted Gohan aims to kill
2. Freeza endures his blasts and blows for a while while biding his time
3. Gohan starts to slack from his stamina draining
4. Freeza immediately paralyses him with Imprisonment Ball the moment an opening is made
5. In the few seconds he gets, he blows up the planet
6. Gohan suffocates to death

So a vote for Frieza?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

So a vote for Frieza?

Given speed equalised, Freeza's endurance, his paralysis and the ability to blow up the planet to win? I think he can win, yeah. I don't think Gohan can kill Freeza any faster than Broly could as is.

So for now consider that a Freeza vote.

 

[MrLuk2000]

Bumpo

 

[MrLuk2000]

Bump

 

[Nierre]

following

 

[Mickey1940]

Golden Frieza should scale to SSJ Broly, who is 50 times stronger than Broly Movie Blue Goku and Vegeta

SSJ Gohan heavily backscales from Gamma 1, who should scale to the likes of Goku and Vegeta "up to a certain point", which most likely means their most recent point, which could mean 2 things

Assuming the Moro arc didn't happen in the Anime continuity, the most recent form of data Dr. Hedo could have had would be Blue Goku and Vegeta in the Broly movie, meaning the Gammas would scale to them
In this situation, Frieza stomps due to the scaling I mentioned earlier

Assuming the Moro arc did happen in the Anime continuity, the most recent for of data Dr. Hedo could have had would be Ultra Instinct Goku against Moro, meaning the Gammas would scale to him
meaning Gohan stomps

there's really no in between

 

[MrLuk2000]

Bump

 

[MrLuk2000]

Bump

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Frieza

Gohan wasn't on the level of the gammas at full power, he needed ultimate form for that, which is a massive gap from his ssj form

On the other hand, the gamma's at best were SSB Goku and Vegeta level, and there's no proof they had a massive jump between the Broly and superhero movies, Frieza was at least on the level individually if not stronger.


He wins this

 

[WarriorofMite]

Freiza FRA

 

[Prime2024]

A suppressed Gamma 2 being stated to be on Goku and Vegeta level is a clearly reference to their base form... there is no proof that it was referring to their blue forms at all so the scaling should go like this :

SSJB Goku= Ultimate Gohan>= Gamma 1/2 >>>>>>>>>suppresses Gamma 1/2 = base Goku and Vegeta > Base piccolo and SSJ Gohan

So yeah no Freiza stomp