The Almighty: Clarification (Bleach manga and cfyow)

[AKUTO123]

It is ridiculous to question them while it is shown on the panel that yhwach will destroy 3 worlds with his reiatsus.

 

[Arcker123]

Anyways, like I said, here's the scan. And it's as in your face blatant on it as you can get:

Uryu literally tells Ichigo that Yhwach, at this moment did not possess the powers of "Omnipotence and "Omniscience". Why? Because he did not have the Almighty in his possession at this time. Jugram had it.

By not having the Almighty, he wasn't "Omnipotent" or "Omniscient" anymore, so Ichigo could take that opportunity to kill him. This right here treats the Almighty and "Omnipotence" as one and the same context wise. Now in terms of translations? They're more than likely said different. But context overrules this as the series itself says otherwise on that.

And I say "likely" since, as the OP himself admitted, we don't have the official translations from the novel to give the final say on what the translations say writing wise.

This only helps the argument, the OP's point was that when referring to the in universe ability "The Almighty" is usually accomponied by the kanji for all knowing omniscience like uryu did here, in this context they did not do that and just stated "his almighty power" with no mention of either in the raws.

 

[AKUTO123]

Could you explain to me why you think yhwach would do it with Almigthy even though the way yhwach destroys everything in his manga panel has nothing to do with Almigthy?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Kukui doesn't understand at all and even refuses to acknowledge the official language and how they differentiate the two...

The Almighty is the power to alter fate.

 

[SagaTheLegend]

Agree with everything

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Good, you just gave yourself away. The Japanese raws which is the primary language differentiate the two when they're talking about it.

Okay and that's all fine and dandy, but like I said, context overrules the literal language put into the statements. A statement can say anything it wants, but the context behind it determines its specific meaning.

Kukui the OFFICIAL LANGUAGE of the manga shows the two are different when they're being spoken about. The paragraph is broken down for you piece by piece. If you're not gonna actually bother just stop.

See above. Language wise they may be. Context wise, they aren't.

Read what I said.

He willingly let himself be sealed to create the new world. After an unknown time, they cut his ass up.

And this is where the problem I called out stems from, and your already admitting to what I called out. Reio never becomes a lynchpin until after the Bleach universe is separated. Again, after.

So how is he already a lynchpin when doing the split according to that translations statement? He shouldn't be.

mutilation doesn't make you a lynchpin.

Since when? Because that's how he became a lynchpin in the first place. Same with Yhwach. And what was going to happen to Ichigo too.

 

[Arcker123]

Okay and that's all fine and dandy, but like I said, context overrules the literal language put into the statements. A statement can say anything it wants, but the context behind it determines its specific meaning.

Dude, Omnipotence refers to the almighty when accompanied by Omniscience.,

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

This only helps the argument, the OP's point was that when referring to the in universe ability "The Almighty" is usually accomponied by the kanji for all knowing omniscience like uryu did here, in this context they did not do that and just stated "his almighty power" with no mention of either in the raws.

It really doesn't help you? You keep going by the literal translations as a point to say they are different, but Uryu calling the Almighty omnipotent is to exactly prove that the term is another way of speaking about the ability.

You can keep sticking to the translation's literal wording as much as you want, but you need to look at the context behind the words as well. And the manga supplies this context that they are the same.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Kukui how the hell are you gonna say that when they're literally different terms.

You don't have an argument here because if you were correct "The Almighty" would be written with kanji used for Yhwach.

全能 = almighty or omnipotent. In other words all-powerful. (Prime SK)
全知全能= omnipotent and omniscent. all-powerful and all-knowing. (The Almighty)

Clearly different and easy to understand.

 

[Arcker123]

It really doesn't help you? You keep going by the literal translations as a point to say they are different, but Uryu calling the Almighty omnipotent is to exactly prove that the term is another way of speaking about the ability.

He also accompanied it by calling him omniscient, omnipotonce alone doesn't refer to it.

 

[SilentBob34]

I like how he ignored my question because he doesn’t have a response to it lmao @ProfessorKukui4Life you could at least concede that you don’t have an answer

 

[Cyberblader90]

Of course, but it also means that the term "omnipotence" is what's a viable term for the Almighty, which is very viable when we're speaking about an ability that comes from people who are the top of the food chain in Bleach as the ultimate villain and supreme being.

Again, put this into context. They dismembered him in order to stop Reio from potentially roaming around freely as the supreme being they see them as. You can't exactly do anything when you're, you know, a corpse.

On top of that, Reio let himself be dismembered.

See above. And how does your example from Yhwach mean it can't? All I got from that was that he didn't use it to change the cosmology. Not that it was an impossibility.

To last your line, I will respond to the other ones later, it's out right narratively implied to be an impossibility given that he makes a note to mention that the sternritter and ichigo no longer mean anything to him after he absorbs ichigo and gerard.

The whole narrative point there is that he wants ichigo's power and the purpose of the sternritter was to ultimately help him with his goal. With the absorption they had fulfilled their purpose which was to help yhwach conduct his plan whether they knew about it or not.

Combined with the fact he does not make any attempt at conducting the merge prior but rather decided to try and bust the cosmology via killing the soul King should demonstrate that he was incapable of doing it at that time

 

[Axxtentacle]

Ok, so The Almighty is specifically always referred to as "Omnipotence and Omniscience", and raw power "omnipotence" isn't that, so why are we trying to say they're the same thing??

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I honestly don't know. he's even saying **** the japanese.

 

[SagaTheLegend]

I don't think a single mention of the Almighty being referred as omnipotence and omniscience by Uryu is enough to debunk all the evidence presented here. None of the members of the Squad 0 have ever referred to "The Almighty" as "omnipotence", and the Almighty has never shown the ability to do anything related to the three worlds. What it does was clearly explained by Yhwach in the manga and it just controls the future.

The context here is completely different. What we should instead be asking is:

Is there any proof " The Almighty" here is being used interchangeably with "omnipotent power", besides a statement of a character that has no relation to this scene or the story of the Soul King?

 

[Arcker123]

I don't think a single mention of the Almighty being referred as omnipotence and omniscience by Uryu is enough to debunk all the evidence presented here. None of the members of the Squad 0 have ever referred to "The Almighty" as "omnipotence", and the Almighty has never shown the ability to do anything related to the three worlds. What it does was clearly explained by Yhwach in the manga and it just controls the future.

The only way to make this work is to deny Omnipotence when referring to the almighty is accompanied by Omnsicience which is supported by kukui's own scans.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Kukui how the hell are you gonna say that when they're literally different terms.

You don't have an argument here because if you were correct "The Almighty" would be written with kanji used for Yhwach.

全能 = almighty or omnipotent. In other words all-powerful. (Prime SK)
全知全能= omnipotent and omniscent. all-powerful and all-knowing. (The Almighty)

Clearly different and easy to understand.

Because there's a thing called context Sigurd. The translation of the words and how they are used are 2 different things.

And in the manga, how "omnipotence" is used is another way of saying Almighty.

Ok, so The Almighty is specifically always referred to as "Omnipotence and Omniscience", and raw power "omnipotence" isn't that, so why are we trying to say they're the same thing??

Do not blame me because of what the manga itself blatantly says is the case with this. This isn't even me pulling an explanation out of nowhere and trying to pass it off as more viable. Im going straight off what the series itself treats the Almighty as in different terms, and omnipotence is recognized as another means for it in-universe. Context overrules wording.

And just as a little reminder, these translations are also fan translations as well, explained by people's own takeaways and explanations on what the wording from the raws are. We have no official translation (yet) to give the final verdict on that.

 

[Arcker123]

Because there's a thing called context Sigurd. The translation of the words and how they are used are 2 different things.

And in the manga, how "omnipotence" is used is another way of saying Almighty.

He also accompanied it by calling him omniscient, omnipotonce alone doesn't refer to it.

And just as a little reminder, these translations are also fan translations as well, explained by people's own takeaways and explanations on what the wording from the raws are. We have no official translation (yet) to give the final verdict on that.

Ok, then you have no basis in claiming the almighty is hax only.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Ok. Show me where The Almighty is specifically referred to as JUST Omnipotence and not Omnipotence and Omniscience then. You ARE pulling another explanation and trying to pass it off as more viable. You're making this claim, but Almighty has always been referred to as Omnipotence and Omniscience.

Also, even if you get that accepted, that means The Almighty is a strength amp anyway lmao...

 

[AKUTO123]

https://images.app.goo.gl/i6KQeV9T4hnFm6Uz5

 

[AKUTO123]

https://images.app.goo.gl/i6KQeV9T4hnFm6Uz5

this panel supports everything we call

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ok. Show me where The Almighty is specifically referred to as JUST Omnipotence and not Omnipotence and Omniscience then. You ARE pulling another explanation and trying to pass it off as more viable. You're making this claim, but Almighty has always been referred to as Omnipotence and Omniscience.

And why does this matter? Or counter anything I said?

The statement calls it Omnipotent, and by that virtue alone right there, it's another term for it. So no, this isn't me pulling another explanation. Im pulling what the manga itself says.

Unless referring to 2 things at once magically doesnt mean it isnt either or...?

Also, even if you get that accepted, that means The Almighty is a strength amp anyway lmao...

Right, because "omnipotence" in fiction has always meant specifically raw power and not anything that generally makes the given character in their series a supreme being?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This is honestly ridiculous.

 

[AKUTO123]

this panel supports everything we call

Are you saying that the black thing that surrounds the SS on this panel is Almighty? manga clearly shows us the way in which it was destroyed, which gives us an idea of the way it was created

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

This is honestly ridiculous.

No whats ridiculous is people wanting to magically forget context isn't a thing and just take a statement (that isn't even officially translated yet) for exactly what it is knowing the context would go against what they want to push for.

The series itself blatantly treats the 2 terms as interchangeable, you cannot take a translation as bigger priority over the meaning of the words. That literally isn't how this works.

 

[Cyberblader90]

I'll make a response to all of your posts kukui, after I get back from visiting family in 2 hours

In the meantime I sent a response to one of your posts above

 

[Arcker123]

No whats ridiculous is people wanting to magically forget context isn't a thing and just take a statement (that isn't even officially translated yet) for exactly what it is knowing the context would go against what they want to push for.

He also accompanied it by calling him omniscient, omnipotonce alone doesn't refer to it.

Dude, Omnipotence refers to the almighty when accompanied by Omniscience.,

 

[Axxtentacle]

And why does this matter? Or counter anything I said?

The statement calls it Omnipotent, and by that virtue alone right there, it's another term for it. So no, this isn't me pulling another explanation. Im pulling what the manga itself says.

Yes, you are. It says Omnipotence AND Omniscience specifically, not just omnipotence. It's more likely that when it just says "Omnipotence" it's specifically referring to strength.

Unless referring to 2 things at once magically doesnt mean it isnt either or...?

Ok, but that doesn't mean something else being referred to as omnipotence means that it's the same, especially when a differentiation is specifically made and one is always called one specific thing. The Almighty, as the raws show, is always referred to as Omnipotence and Omniscience. Do you have any other reason besides "well part of it's description is omnipotence"?

Right, because "omnipotence" in fiction has always meant specifically raw power and not anything that generally makes the given character in their series a supreme being?

repeating the same point about him fighting Ichibei then using Almighty and 1 shotting him for like the 900th time

 

[SagaTheLegend]

Man this is making absolute no sense to me. A random mention of Uryu referring to the Almighty and a Omnipotence and Omniscience which isn't even the case here meaning every other use of the term Omnipotence equals to using "The Almighty". Is a completely based assumption. Uryu was the only one I've seeing saying that on panel. No other character o the narration has ever referred to it like that, and even if it had done that isn't the case here since it just says "almighty power". This seems just like an excuse to deny the existence of a very blatant feat.

 

[SagaTheLegend]

The only way to make this work is to deny Omnipotence when referring to the almighty is accompanied by Omnsicience which is supported by kukui's own scans.

Yeah lets pretend it says the same thing tbh. Clearly no problem with that.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes, you are. It says Omnipotence AND Omniscience specifically, not just omnipotence.

And again, why does this matter here? It's still being called omnipotent.

You also forget that Omniscience very clearly refers to the fact that Yhwach knows everything from seeing all futures, which makes him all knowing in that regard.

It's more likely that when it just says "Omnipotence" it's specifically referring to strength.

And what is the basis for this? "Omnipotence" in fiction can mean anything that makes the character, in their respective series, invincible. And through this vague definition, it is very possible for fiction for call something omnipotent outside of sheer strength.

Can it mean strength? Sure. But what determines that is if what proves it means that.

Ok, but that doesn't mean something else being referred to as omnipotence means that it's the same, especially when a differentiation is specifically made and one is always called one specific thing. The Almighty, as the raws show, is always referred to as Omnipotence and Omniscience. Do you have any other reason besides "well part of it's description is omnipotence"?

For this, see my first reply. We know what omniscience, in terms of the Almighty, means. Its the user being all knowing for seeing into all futures. And "Omniscience" is mentioned in-universe since its coming from characters who's goal is to defeat said omnipotent and omniscient being, a being who at that moment did not possess either power (because Jugram has it).

For the case of the novels, where its speaking about the Soul King's "Almighty Power", its very easy to see why the Almighty would be called "just" Omnipotent in this case. Reio's performing a feat vastly superior to the royal family and everyone else in the universe at that time, and from that moment, is seen as the supreme being of their world.

 

[Tyri456]

“Almighty power“ in this case, is intended as great power, the context in that case is that his power was so great to create the universe not that he was using The Almighty to create it, which is the ability, just the fact that he has a power so great to create the universe. Because if they wanted to use Almighty as an ability they would have used his kanji which is different, from the adjective one since it is not intended as All-seeing.

that is the context, and it is pretty obvious and actually fit the narration since Almighty as an hax never shown anything related to creation, there should not even be the doubt that they were referring to his power itself being great. Why you are against it without a reasons, it’s so obvious.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Man this is making absolute no sense to me. A random mention of Uryu referring to the Almighty and a Omnipotence and Omniscience which isn't even the case here meaning every other use of the term Omnipotence equals to using "The Almighty".

That isn't what I said. Or what I suggested Saga.

I never said Omnipotence always means the Almighty. What I said was that when speaking about the Almighty, it can be referring to Omnipotence as another term for it.

Is a completely based assumption. Uryu was the only one I've seeing saying that on panel. No other character o the narration has ever referred to it like that, and even if it had done that isn't the case here since it just says "almighty power".

"Almighty Power" = The power of the Almighty.

This seems just like an excuse to deny the existence of a very blatant feat.

This isn't denying the feats existence, or else Low 2-C would be completely out of the question entirely. What's being denied is the method of said feats performance, which makes or breaks how the tiering is done.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Lol I'll just wait for Cyber to post. The dude is being way too thick and isn't even posting anything to support him.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Lol I'll just wait for Cyber to post. The dude is being way too thick and isn't even posting anything to support him.

Ain't that how it usually goes?

 

[Axxtentacle]

And again, why does this matter here? It's still being called omnipotent.

You also forget that Omniscience very clearly refers to the fact that Yhwach knows everything from seeing all futures, which makes him all knowing in that regard.

Because The Almighty is specifically stated to be Omnipotence and Omniscience? I don't see what's so hard to grasp about that. If it was referring to The Almighty, it would keep it's consistency and call it Omnipotence and Omniscience. Unless you can definitively prove it for the downgrade, then the speculation really doesn't mean anything.

And what is the basis for this? "Omnipotence" in fiction can mean anything that makes the character, in their respective series, invincible. And through this vague definition, it is very possible for fiction for call something omnipotent outside of sheer strength.

Can it mean strength? Sure. But what determines that is if what proves it means that.

Activating the Almighty let him do more physically impressive feats, like 1 shotting someone who he was physically fighting evenly beforehand? idk what else to tell ya chief.

For this, see my first reply. We know what omniscience, in terms of the Almighty, means. Its the user being all knowing for seeing into all futures. And "Omniscience" is mentioned in-universe since its coming from characters who's goal is to defeat said omnipotent and omniscient being, a being who at that moment did not possess either power (because Jugram has it).

Ok? That's entirely irrelevant here. He specifies that he doesn't have the omnipotence and omniscience, but the Soul king is only stated to have Omnipotence, not Omniscience. We also know the Soul king STILL has the almighty when we see him.

For the case of the novels, where its speaking about the Soul King's "Almighty Power", its very easy to see why the Almighty would be called "just" Omnipotent in this case. Reio's performing a feat vastly superior to the royal family and everyone else in the universe at that time, and from that moment, is seen as the supreme being of their world.

"its very easy to see why" That doesn't PROVE it though. Nothing you've brought forth PROVES anything, what we're shown is that the Almighty is always specifically referred to as All Powerful and All Knowing. If you can find a case where it's specifically shown to be ONLY referred to as Omnipotence, go ahead and post it. Otherwise, you're working with speculation, which we don't accept in cases for downgrades or upgrades.

In short, get a scan where The Almighty is specified as only being referred to as Omnipotence (not the scan you're claiming it means, since it's vague), and I will concede. But till then, I won't be conceding to speculation that requires an extra assumption.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Lol I'll just wait for Cyber to post. The dude is being way too thick and isn't even posting anything to support him.

Except a scan directly from the manga you like to latch onto so strongly? A scan that outright proves what im saying is the case?

Meanwhile your side is continuing to use explained fan-translations instead of being tactful and actually using whats officially translated to fight with here.

 

[SagaTheLegend]

That isn't what I said. Or what I suggested Saga.

I never said Omnipotence always means the Almighty. What I said was that when speaking about the Almighty, it can be referring to Omnipotence as another term for it.

Okay it can be, but because one character refers to The Almighty that way, doesn't inherently mean all other characters will refer to Yhwach's ability using that. Aizen has referred to it as "The Almighty" directly for example. Now do you have any proof it means that in this context?

"Almighty Power" = The power of the Almighty.

Do you have evidence suggesting that it means the same in this context, especially since the Kanji for the Almighty isn't even used here in this quote? Your argument is that it "can" mean that, but do we have any proof it does mean what you claim it does here?

This isn't denying the feats existence, or else Low 2-C would be completely out of the question entirely. What's being denied is the method of said feats performance, which makes or breaks how the tiering is done.

Sure.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

So what Kukui is saying...Is Ichigo has the Almighty

 

[Axxtentacle]

Except a scan directly from the manga you like to latch onto so strongly? A scan that outright proves what im saying is the case?

It doesn't. Repeatedly saying it does doesn't make it true.