Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

[Metalballrun]

. Even people still think that Hinata can't beat an entire Falmuth's army like Rimuru bcs she doesn't have any AOE attack, can't beat Razen, etc.

It doesn't help that even FUSE himself downplays Hinata. We never get to see all the Skills Hinata has copied and stolen, all we see is just her using holy attacks and Mathematician.
And when her soul got the 2000+ years experience buff with Chloe, she never fought again and was only shown recently for Rimuru to flirt with.

People hates her because she almost killed Rimuru lol (and even killed him in Chloe timeline)

Hinata didn't kill him in the alternate timeline.

But Hinata is the only one who defeated Rimuru in an actual battle (Rimuru's only other losses were training with Hakurou and Milim).
Hinata also scored a win against Veldora, although she was using Chloe's body at that time.
She also treats Rimuru like he's a 37 year-old man, and that just ***** with a lot of fans that fetishizes and simps for Rimuru lol

 

[Bernkastelll]

Hinata didn't kill him in the alternate timeline.

I legit remember it being stated that Hinata killed Rimuru in Chloe Timeline, at least in the web novel, but maybe I am wrong

 

[Bernkastelll]

She also treats Rimuru like he's a 37 year-old man, and that just ***** with a lot of fans that fetishizes and simps for Rimuru lol

Lmfao

 

[Metalballrun]

I legit remember it being stated that Hinata killed Rimuru in Chloe Timeline, at least in the web novel, but maybe I am wrong

Maybe that's the WN version.

In the LN, Rimuru died while fighting in the front lines against the Eastern Empire. Hinata wasn't there.

 

[Community_Gamer]

It doesn't help that even FUSE himself downplays Hinata. We never get to see all the Skills Hinata has copied and stolen, all we see is just her using holy attacks and Mathematician.
And when her soul got the 2000+ years experience buff with Chloe, she never fought again and was only shown recently for Rimuru to flirt with.


Hinata didn't kill him in the alternate timeline.

But Hinata is the only one who defeated Rimuru in an actual battle (Rimuru's only other losses were training with Hakurou and Milim).
Hinata also scored a win against Veldora, although she was using Chloe's body at that time.
She also treats Rimuru like he's a 37 year-old man, and that just ***** with a lot of fans that fetishizes and simps for Rimuru lol

She was only borrowing a body. Its not like she kept the skills. It was always her strongest abilities.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Maybe that's the WN version.

In the LN, Rimuru died while fighting in the front lines against the Eastern Empire. Hinata wasn't there.

Well he didn't actually die but he disappeared only to come back stronger and BFR Chronoa's spiritual body into an alternate timeline.

 

[Community_Gamer]

It's both lowkey annoying and funny how a lot of redditors dislike Hinata Sakaguchi and how their opinion of her warps their perception of her power level.
I've seen people legit say that she's:

• Not much stronger than Prime Shizue, a person she surpassed within a month.
• Would struggle against Razen, a guy who was only a step above Orc Disaster and whose best feat is defeating Sare, a guy that couldn't even touch Hinata.

The fact that Hinata was able to fight Roy and Louis at the same time and inflict mortal wounds against them (despite her being mortally wounded as well) should clue people in about how strong she is, and that battle happened years ago.

I know which places you are referring to. I do check Reddit daily and get jumped from time to time.

While there's things I don't/didn't like about her.......I'm not dumb.

 

[Metalballrun]

She was only borrowing a body. Its not like she kept the skills. It was always her strongest abilities.

I never said she kept any of Chloe's skills. I said she had 2000+ years of experience being Chloe's Great Sage and occasionally fighting herself.
And with how power levels in Slime goes, that should give an enormous buff for Hinata even if it was only her soul that went through the experience.

Well he didn't actually die but he disappeared only to come back stronger and BFR Chronoa's spiritual body into an alternate timeline.

Veldora was resurrected and Veldora ended up decimating both the Imperial army and Tempest, IIRC.
Veldora himself was already attached to Tempest, and if Rimuru released him normally, they would've instead teamed up against the Imperial army.
Instead, Veldora went berserk, which only would have happened if his personality got reset due to mutual death along with Rimuru.

One of the most likely scenario is that Rimuru definitely died but somehow managed to come back to life stronger many years later.

While there's things I don't/didn't like about her.......I'm not dumb.

You're free to dislike Hinata (or any character in general). I'm not calling everyone who dislikes her as dumb.

I'm just talking about the general opinion and skewed perception of the majority of frequent reddit users about her.
It might sound bad but if you frequent reddit them you should know what I'm talking about is true.

Shion gets significant amount of hate too. But a lot of people who dislike her don't understand her character despite it being simple, as well.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I never said she kept any of Chloe's skills. I said she had 2000+ years of experience being Chloe's Great Sage and occasionally fighting herself.
And with how power levels in Slime goes, that should give an enormous buff for Hinata even if it was only her soul that went through the experience.

I would have to disagree. It would be minor at best and is entirely dependent on the experience.

Veldora was resurrected and Veldora ended up decimating both the Imperial army and Tempest, IIRC.
Veldora himself was already attached to Tempest, and if Rimuru released him normally, they would've instead teamed up against the Imperial army.
Instead, Veldora went berserk, which only would have happened if his personality got reset due to mutual death along with Rimuru.

One of the most likely scenario is that Rimuru definitely died but somehow managed to come back to life stronger many years later.

Yeah so we do know what Chronoa's experiences were after Rimuru's supposed death. In V12 Chronoa tells us that Rimuru reappeared and fought Chronoa for a bit.

You're free to dislike Hinata (or any character in general). I'm not calling everyone who dislikes her as dumb.

I'm just talking about the general opinion and skewed perception of the majority of frequent reddit users about her.
It might sound bad but if you frequent reddit them you should know what I'm talking about is true.

Shion gets significant amount of hate too. But a lot of people who dislike her don't understand her character despite it being simple, as well.

Yeah I phrased that improperly. What I mean is that I wasn't foolish enough to discount her feats. And at this I'm just neutral on her.

Side note: I do find it interesting that we've never known or discussed Chloe's life up to her adulthood. Because obviously Chloe's already an adult by 2000 years prior from the present.

 

[Metalballrun]

I would have to disagree. It would be minor at best and is entirely dependent on the experience.

Hinata acted basically as Chloe's Manas. Everything that Chloe did, Hinata witnessed as well and experienced to a degree, even dealt with.
And with the implications of how prolific the hero Chronoa is, to the point that she was considered the strongest hero, that even Granbell felt that he was no match for her, that's pretty much a given of what kind of experiences they had for over 2000 years.

Hinata has also spent a significant amount of time as Chloe/Chronoa. Remember that Chloe had to sleep 300 years prior to the series IIRC, so Hinata had to act as the Hero and to restrain Chronoa for the remainder of that time until she herself had to sleep when she could either no longer control Chronoa or when her time to get isekaid was near. So that's a few hundred years + an unknown amount of time of Chloe letting Hinata get control of the body.

Not only that, but Hinata's insane intelligence and information analysis alone would make her into a sponge, absorbing all of that experience even if she mostly acted as a pseudo-Manas for Chloe.

Her experience has comparable credence to other long-lived masters being strong due to experience like Granbell and Hakurou.

Yeah so we do know what Chronoa's experiences were after Rimuru's supposed death. In V12 Chronoa tells us that Rimuru reappeared and fought Chronoa for a bit.

Post-Revival Alt-Rimuru was not only stated to be stronger than current V12 Demon Lord Rimuru, but also fought Chronoa "countless times". He saved Chronoa and brought back her reason.
So there is definitely something extremely fishy that happened. Rimuru dying and then coming back to life is the most likely (Veldora's resurrection), but something different could've happened as well.

Yeah I phrased that improperly. What I mean is that I wasn't foolish enough to discount her feats. And at this I'm just neutral on her.

That's fair.

Side note: I do find it interesting that we've never known or discussed Chloe's life up to her adulthood. Because obviously Chloe's already an adult by 2000 years prior from the present.

Because FUSE didn't elaborate on it much, only passing statements from Hinata's POV in V11. That and most people are still quite confused about the time travel plot.
The world was very different back then, it could be it's own entirely different story. And FUSE seem to be capable of writing from a woman's POV competently so maybe he could write it in the future if the demand is there.

 

[DebatingIsMyGoal]

Just a question, do we consider Rimuru's stomach as a 2A BFR?

 

[Metalballrun]

Which version?

 

[DebatingIsMyGoal]

WN

 

[Metalballrun]

Ah, I'm not sure then. Somehow, most WN Rimuru matchups that I've seen have him win through passives so I don't know how I-Space is treated.

 

[Metalballrun]

If you consider yourself knowledgeable about TenSura, you should probably add yourself to the Knowledgeable Members list, according to the recent pinned thread.

 

[Community_Gamer]

If you consider yourself knowledgeable about TenSura, you should probably add yourself to the Knowledgeable Members list, according to the recent pinned thread.

Pinned thread?

 

[KingAllen30]

Pinned thread?

This

 

[Community_Gamer]

Hinata acted basically as Chloe's Manas. Everything that Chloe did, Hinata witnessed as well and experienced to a degree, even dealt with.
And with the implications of how prolific the hero Chronoa is, to the point that she was considered the strongest hero, that even Granbell felt that he was no match for her, that's pretty much a given of what kind of experiences they had for over 2000 years.

Well that maybe attributed to world awakening her to have significantly more power than other Heroes. Save for Rudra. Also she does have two Hero Eggs.

And extremely broken unique skills. The only thing she's really know for is sealing Veldora.

Hinata has also spent a significant amount of time as Chloe/Chronoa. Remember that Chloe had to sleep 300 years prior to the series IIRC, so Hinata had to act as the Hero and to restrain Chronoa for the remainder of that time until she herself had to sleep when she could either no longer control Chronoa or when her time to get isekaid was near. So that's a few hundred years + an unknown amount of time of Chloe letting Hinata get control of the body.

She was with Shizu for a few years yeah. About a hundred at most because of Shizu. Most of the time was with Luminas then rest with Shizu until she went back to Luminas.

Her experience has comparable credence to other long-lived masters being strong due to experience like Granbell and Hakurou.

Ehh. I won't go into this.

Beause FUSE didn't elaborate on it much, only passing statements from Hinata's POV in V11. That and most people are still quite confused about the time travel plot.
The world was very different back then, it could be it's own entirely different story. And FUSE seem to be capable of writing from a woman's POV competently so maybe he could write it in the future if the demand is there.

I was referring to the time before the moment they appeared in the past. She was an adult the moment they arrived so what about before?

 

[Metalballrun]

Well that maybe attributed to world awakening her to have significantly more power than other Heroes. Save for Rudra. Also she does have two Hero Eggs.

And extremely broken unique skills. The only thing she's really know for is sealing Veldora.

Note that I'm not really saying that Chronoa's feats are applicable to Hinata, either. But that Chloe's experiences are all shared with Hinata.

Even while idling as a pseudo-Manas, Hinata is bound to to absorb things as much as possible.

The only real downside in this is her body didn't get to experience what her soul did. But the journey gave her invaluable experience and strengthened her soul. I'm quite certain that's also how souls work in Slime (e.g. Razen being able to carry over his experience and some abilities even with his body swapping).

I was referring to the time before the moment they appeared in the past. She was an adult the moment they arrived so what about before?

Ah yeah I may have to reread that part. I very easily forget stuff despite reading Slime multiple times.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Note that I'm not really saying that Chronoa's feats are applicable to Hinata, either. But that Chloe's experiences are all shared with Hinata.

I know I'm essentially saying what they are doing shouldn't be too much more impressive than Hinata's current job. Its not like she fighting particular stronh opponents. Anyway the experience is minimal

Even while idling as a pseudo-Manas, Hinata is bound to to absorb things as much as possible.

The only real downside in this is her body didn't get to experience what her soul did. But the journey gave her invaluable experience and strengthened her soul. I'm quite certain that's also how souls work in Slime (e.g. Razen being able to carry over his experience and some abilities even with his body swapping).

Hinata soul didn't even experience it. Just the consciousness transferred to Mathematican. Granbell destroyed her soul.

 

[Metalballrun]

I know I'm essentially saying what they are doing shouldn't be too much more impressive than Hinata's current job. Its not like she fighting particular stronh opponents. Anyway the experience is minimal

We can't really say that. It leaves as much blank space to what happened just like other long-lived beings. Granbell and Hakurou didn't fight all the time either.

Hinata soul didn't even experience it. Just the consciousness transferred to Mathematican. Granbell destroyed her soul.

Hinata's 'soul' was described to have explicitly come with Chloe to the past.
That's because Skills inscribed in the soul are no less than the souls themselves, they are a part of it. If Granbell destroyed her soul completely, everything including her Skills would've been destroyed as well.
That's why both Chloe and Hinata refer to Hinata as a soul at all times during their journey, and why Rimuru says Mathematician is basically just Hinata herself.
The important part is her consciousness experiencing things regardless, otherwise it wouldn't matter.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Hinata's 'soul' was described to have explicitly come with Chloe to the past.
That's because Skills inscribed in the soul are no less than the souls themselves, they are a part of it. If Granbell destroyed her soul completely, everything including her Skills would've been destroyed as well.
That's why both Chloe and Hinata refer to Hinata as a soul at all times during their journey, and why Rimuru says Mathematician is basically just Hinata herself.
The important part is her consciousness experiencing things regardless, otherwise it wouldn't matter.

I don't agree. I'll leave it at that for now. I don't feel like pulling up all the scans.

 

[Metalballrun]

Ah well, in any case, with regards to Hinata's experience, it becomes purely anecdotal because she doesn't get much feats after Volume 11 anyways.

In other news, I may start creating a profile for Ramiris' Labyrinth (somebody coincidentally made a page for it in the Slime wiki too, so that's helpful). Once the entire thing is approved and a standard instructions is posted.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Ah well, in any case, with regards to Hinata's experience, it becomes purely anecdotal because she doesn't get much feats after Volume 11 anyways.

In other news, I may start creating a profile for Ramiris' Labyrinth (somebody coincidentally made a page for it in the Slime wiki too, so that's helpful). Once the entire thing is approved and a standard instructions is posted.

I think Hinata's narrative came full circle and concluded nicely. She does really need to fight anymore. I enjoyed the juxtaposition for her losing her abilities, it's exactly what Shizu told her.

Do remember that the wiki is mainly WN information.

 

[Metalballrun]

I think Hinata's narrative came full circle and concluded nicely. She does really need to fight anymore. I enjoyed the juxtaposition for her losing her abilities, it's exactly what Shizu told her.

If you mean she "doesn't need to, maybe? Shizu said she lost her ability because she no longer needs it. That doesn't really necessarily mean she no longer needs to fight, just that she no longer has to take and steal from others because she has already grown.
Is how I interpreted it anyways.

Do remember that the wiki is mainly WN information.

I'm treating the wiki more as comparison's sake. The page was recently written and it was based on the LN however.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

"There were eight media cards that formed the basis.

These represented the eight great attributes of the power of spirits that made this world.

Light and shadow, time, and earth, water, fire, wind, and sky.

What Marsha had received, was seven of those eight.

Time alone could not be used by people, and so I had excluded it.

The light could purify, nurture and regenerate.

The shadow could conceal, was psychological, and could destroy.

The earth had the power to pull, break and condense.

The water could solidify, stop and be released.

The fire burned, accelerated and exploded.

The wind was in waves, had an impact and vibrated.

The sky was space, existence, and information."
(Web Novel, Chapter 260)

can this be an feats for CM type 1?

 

[Community_Gamer]

If you mean she "doesn't need to, maybe? Shizu said she lost her ability because she no longer needs it. That doesn't really necessarily mean she no longer needs to fight, just that she no longer has to take and steal from others because she has already grown.
Is how I interpreted it anyways.

Hinata's path to power juxtaposed her fear and anxiety with past. She uses it as a sort of escape she never confronts her internal turmoil. This goes into why she never awakened and what Granbell was trying to teach her. She continued to reject her past viscerally it wasn't until she forced into a position of thought and self reflection that she let go of the anguish she felt. But that still wasn't enough, she needed to have closure with her beloved teacher.

Honestly I could talk forever about how intricate and interesting narrative is in Tensura especially Hinata's.

 

[Metalballrun]

Hinata's path to power juxtaposed her fear and anxiety with past. She uses it as a sort of escape she never confronts her internal turmoil. This goes into why she never awakened and what Granbell was trying to teach her. She continued to reject her past viscerally it wasn't until she forced into a position of thought and self reflection that she let go of the anguish she felt. But that still wasn't enough, she needed to have closure with her beloved teacher.

Honestly I could talk forever about how intricate and interesting narrative is in Tensura especially Hinata's.

I mean these are all true, I agree. It's not really mutually exclusive with what I said either.

 

[Helestias]

"There were eight media cards that formed the basis.

These represented the eight great attributes of the power of spirits that made this world.

Light and shadow, time, and earth, water, fire, wind, and sky.

What Marsha had received, was seven of those eight.

Time alone could not be used by people, and so I had excluded it.

The light could purify, nurture and regenerate.

The shadow could conceal, was psychological, and could destroy.

The earth had the power to pull, break and condense.

The water could solidify, stop and be released.

The fire burned, accelerated and exploded.

The wind was in waves, had an impact and vibrated.

The sky was space, existence, and information."
(Web Novel, Chapter 260)

can this be an feats for CM type 1?

Noh, Why do u think it would prove cm type 1?

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Noh, Why do u think it would prove cm type 1?

Maybe like this for example?

Destroying Space, Existence, and Information will not destroy the Great Spirit of Sky. Whereas if destroy the Great Spirit of Sky, it will destroy Space, Existence, and Information

 

[Metalballrun]

Maybe like this for example?

Destroying Space, Existence, and Information will not destroy the Great Spirit of Sky. Whereas if destroy the Great Spirit of Sky, it will destroy Space, Existence, and Information

Is there a scan/excerpt for this?
I am not knowledgeable about the WN nor conceptual manipulation, but reading the page, there might be a chance that it could be CM Type 1.
I'm certain that this was discussed in the past however, and it seems like what is accepted for slime is CM Type 2.
So you need more concrete evidences and arguments to support your claim.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Is there a scan/excerpt for this?
I am not knowledgeable about the WN nor conceptual manipulation, but reading the page, there might be a chance that it could be CM Type 1.
I'm certain that this was discussed in the past however, and it seems like what is accepted for slime is CM Type 2.
So you need more concrete evidences and arguments to support your claim.

Didn't Hinata erase the information using Disintegration or Meltslash?

I don't think Disintegration or Meltslash erased the Great Spirit of Sky even if it did erase Information.

If the Great Spirit of Sky is also erased, then space, existence, and information should also be erased.

 

[Bernkastelll]

What about this argument to CM1 to The Great Holy Spirit?

So, The Great Holy Spirit is the source of all things, as even such things as CM2 like Spirit of Darkness and Spirit of Light (both are stated to be conceptual existence) were born from the Great Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of Light and Darkness were stated that they started to exist in the same moment that the world did

So, if the Spirit of Light and Darkness (CM2) were born in the same moment that the world started to exist, The Great Holy Spirit is a existance that transcend it, because it exist even before of all these things, as it is the source of all things

''1. Independent Universal Concept: Such concepts are completely independent from the reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.''

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Then, what about the Great Spirit of Light and Great Spirit of Darkness that still exist even though the world is destroyed? Because the Great Spirit of Light consumes the world, and wipes out the Great Spirit of Darkness.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

What about this argument to CM1 to The Great Holy Spirit?

So, The Great Holy Spirit is the source of all things, as even such things as CM2 like Spirit of Darkness and Spirit of Light (both are stated to be conceptual existence) were born from the Great Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of Light and Darkness were stated that they started to exist in the same moment that the world did

Wasn't the Great Holy Spirit referring to Veldanava? or is it another entity?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Wasn't the Great Holy Spirit referring to Veldanava? or is it another entity?

I don't think that it is about Veldanava, but I don't remember a lot of things as well , perhaps Milly knows

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

But, Isn't Veldanava a source of power that appears in nothingness? He created the worlds simultaneously with the creation of the Great Spirit. So, the Great Holy Spirit should be referring to Veldanava.

 

[Elizhaa]

I did think that Great Holy Spirit could have been something else created by Veldanava. Though it seems like light and darkness could be type 1 concepts since they all predate time for the world and they seem unaffected when the world was without a form as an ephemeral existence that could qualify for the independence of reality. aspect.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I did think that Great Holy Spirit could have been something else created by Veldanava. Though it seems like light and darkness could be type 1 concepts since they all predate time for the world and they seem unaffected when the world was without a form as ephemeral existence which could qualify for the independent of reality aspect.

Wait, so, actually, Great Holy Spirit is a Concept 1 above baseline if we take in consideration that Spirit of Light and Darkness are also type 1?

 

[Bernkastelll]

So, if Veldanava used Turn Null to create all the things and can be used to destroy the things, Turn Null has concept type 1 via creation and also destruction?