Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 2

[Doomrider7]

Some interesting news from the Twitter.

https://twitter.com/ten_sura_anime/status/1064715896621420544?s=19

Also the Blurays are supposed to ship with an added book of Shizu's life prior to her summon.

https://twitter.com/ten_sura_anime/status/1064541631200747521?s=19

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Any idea what that first link is saying?

 

[Doomrider7]

It's sort of event cross over with a department store in Akihabara. Beyond that, I dunno. Was hoping someone here would translate.

 

[Extreme123dz]

Veldora still a Tsundere Dragon :u

 

[Muitret]

Which according to you would be the best fight of the series? And Between dagruel, millim, ramiris and gii which is the strongest?(except for gii EoS)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Veldora vs dagruel was epic.

Gii is the strongest out of that list.

 

[Extreme123dz]

lel

Nota de Shadow: A pesar de que este cap fue traducido por circus, fue casi tan malo como un cap de Guro. Los tiempos verbales me hicieron un revoltijo en el cerebro; frases como: "Pensé en pensar una idea" o similares al hablar o en la narrativa me complicaron la vida. Al final de este cap el editor gringo tiene un mensaje que responder├í sus dudas. En fin, su querido admin Shadow ―como siempre― hace su mejor esfuerzo y ustedes no me agradecen envi├índome las fotos de sus primas (que estén buenotas) T_T
	~ Cap├¡tulo 97 - ┬íCompensación y futuras relaciones!​

Nota de WhiteSamurai (el editor gringo): "┬íSanto Cielo! Bueno, la diferencia entre Clown-chan, Guro-san y el team Kuma-Hana es aparente. No es tan mala como cuando trabajo con personas que utilizan Google Translator para TODO. Aunque hay puntos en los que la traducción estaba equivocada. Nota de Shadow: Pero t├║ tampoco eres el mero mero editando, me complicaste la vida con tu edición.
	~ Cap├¡tulo 97 - ┬íCompensación y futuras relaciones!​

 

[OpMasada]

...........................English?

 

[Sheska444]

yup, russian sure is difficult after all

 

[Extreme123dz]

Google Translation V:

__

The moment most WTF!!! in Slime someone remmeber?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Seems the anime is finally gonna pick up the pace, it's covering the fight with the ogre's, so 3 chapters of the manga contrasted to the 1 chapter pacing from before.

Preview images for next episode show the ogre's vs rimuru.

With this sort of pacing, it might be possible to reach hinata vs rimuru but that will probably be like the last episode of the anime.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

Veldora vs dagruel was epic.
Gii is the strongest out of that list.

OP said except Eos Gui. Wouldn't milim be the strongest then. It is implied that she defeated gui in their battle and ramiris had to step in. Beside i found rimuru's statement of guy being equal to Yuki very dubious. In that fight, he wasn't even Velda's level. Getting a god series ultimate skill never provided that much of a jump. If it did, Velgrind would have pulverized Velzard, and so many others with the God series would have been above gui (which they weren't).

Would have love to see a Diablo vs Gui for ultimate demon, after rimuru further evolved. Diablo was a legit genius

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Even excluding eos gii is still the strongest.

Milim did not defeat gii, they fought continuously for 7 days and nights until ramiris stepped in, it's never said milim won.

Diablo isn't on gii's level, gii and milim using wrathful king satan>true dragons who are 10x>base milim who is 3x>diablo.

Diablo with his ultimate form which makes him 2x stronger is probably close to base milim but still far weaker than gii.

Gii is a genius too, it's why just a year after the fight with yuuki rimuru said he could take on yuuki who was High 3-A, then some years later he got strong enough to take on 2-B rimuru.

 

[Sheska444]

holy shit gii! Irefuse to believe it! btw ramiris is best girl!

 

[GLHF22]

Gii is a genius too, it's why just a year after the fight with yuuki rimuru said he could take on yuuki who was High 3-A, then some years later he got strong enough to take on 2-B rimuru.

Actually I do not agree to compare Gii with Rimuru because we have no proof he is able to fight Serious Rimuru, if only fighting Rimuru gobta can also do that

 

[GLHF22]

and in the WN is only stated

"I would fight against Guy several times after this, but let's talk about that another time."

and the fact Guy is still alive and can fight Rimuru "several time" means Rimuru not serious at all

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Nothing is said about rimuru not being serious or not, just that they fought, gii still being alive doesn't disprove anything, it could mean they are equals thus can't kill each other, gii already said he won't fight a fight he knows he can't win, the fact that he later did this presumely years later, means he thought he could possibly win.

However i agree it's not definitive, we need more details, for now scaling him to yuuki and giving him a possibly 2-B rating would be ok with me.

 

[GLHF22]

Nothing is said about rimuru not being serious or not, just that they fought, gii still being alive doesn't disprove anything, it could mean they are equals thus can't kill each other, gii already said he won't fight a fight he knows he can't win, the fact that he later did this presumely years later, means he thought he could possibly win.
However i agree it's not definitive, we need more details, for now scaling him to yuuki and giving him a possibly 2-B rating would be ok with me.

There is no problem to scale Gii to yuuki because he has actual feat, but sclae him to Rimuru is too much for him, it is Impossible for him to get Turn Null even With his Lucifer or Nodens since yuuki who have every ability in the series can't do that

 

[Muitret]

Even excluding eos gii is still the strongest.

Milim did not defeat gii, they fought continuously for 7 days and nights until ramiris stepped in, it's never said milim won.

Diablo isn't on gii's level, gii and milim using wrathful king satan>true dragons who are 10x>base milim who is 3x>diablo.

Diablo with his ultimate form which makes him 2x stronger is probably close to base milim but still far weaker than gii.

Gii is a genius too, it's why just a year after the fight with yuuki rimuru said he could take on yuuki who was High 3-A, then some years later he got strong enough to take on 2-B rimuru.

Oh, and between Milim, Dagruel and Ramiris?

 

[OpMasada]

@Celestial I don't think Gii ever said he could take on yuuki, only that he didn't know how his ability would contend against him due to rimuru. He doesn't like fights he can't win but you also can't exclude the fact that Gii doesn't know how strong rimuru is compared to him other than what was shown to him when Rimuru came back. In regards to Gii fighting Yuuki, it would be incredibly stupid for him not to fight Yuuki because... he's going to destroy the world remember?

Also Gii definitely lost to Yuuki as he managed to destroyed the world. Although that doesn't prove/disprove whether he's universal or not.

I don't think we should scale Gii to rimuru simply because it was stated that they sparred. Veldanava was far stronger than him but Gii still fought because he didn't think that he would lose.

And then, they met.
The one who created the world, the ultimate existence.

"Stellar Dragon King" Veldanava. He who had created the world they live in.

Guy, who undoubtedly prided himself as one of the strongest alive, chose to challenge this being without any hesitation.
And ended up utterly defeated.
Guy was sent to the ground, as though there wasn't any resistance whatsoever.
Never once doubting his was the strongest, his pride at that time, was utterly shattered.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Rimuru literally stated gii got stronger and would now be able to take on yuuki, again this is a year after rimuru absorbed yuuki, so it's totally reasonable to scale gii to yuuki.

" Those were the words that he said then. I didn't know whether it was his true feelings or not, but since I didn't want to fight with Guy either, it was just what I was hoping for. At least, I felt the indication that if Guy was serious, he might be able to fight against Yuuki on equal terms or more."

^

Eos gii scales to yuuki.

I am fine with not scaling him to rimuru though.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

@Celestial I don't think Gii ever said he could take on yuuki, only that he didn't know how his ability would contend against him due to rimuru. He doesn't like fights he can't win but you also can't exclude the fact that Gii doesn't know how strong rimuru is compared to him other than what was shown to him when Rimuru came back. In regards to Gii fighting Yuuki, it would be incredibly stupid for him not to fight Yuuki because... he's going to destroy the world remember?
Also Gii definitely lost to Yuuki as he managed to destroyed the world. Although that doesn't prove/disprove whether he's universal or not.

I don't think we should scale Gii to rimuru simply because it was stated that they sparred. Veldanava was far stronger than him but Gii still fought because he didn't think that he would lose.

And then, they met.
The one who created the world, the ultimate existence.

"Stellar Dragon King" Veldanava. He who had created the world they live in.

Guy, who undoubtedly prided himself as one of the strongest alive, chose to challenge this being without any hesitation.
And ended up utterly defeated.
Guy was sent to the ground, as though there wasn't any resistance whatsoever.
Never once doubting his was the strongest, his pride at that time, was utterly shattered.

I agree with you.

Also, the Demon lords are able to supress their power, deceive others on the extent of their power. Remember Veldanava was a god, gui may simply have been unable to perceive the extent of his power when he fought him, we got no indication on how the fight went except that guy was defeated to the point of not challenging Veldanava again.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

Nothing is said about rimuru not being serious or not, just that they fought, gii still being alive doesn't disprove anything, it could mean they are equals thus can't kill each other, gii already said he won't fight a fight he knows he can't win, the fact that he later did this presumely years later, means he thought he could possibly win.
However i agree it's not definitive, we need more details, for now scaling him to yuuki and giving him a possibly 2-B rating would be ok with me.

There is no problem to scale Gii to yuuki because he has actual feat, but sclae him to Rimuru is too much for him, it is Impossible for him to get Turn Null even With his Lucifer or Nodens since yuuki who have every ability in the series can't do that

What feats puts him on Yuuki's level?? As far as i remember, all we have is a statement from Rimuru saying he thinks guy can fight Yuuki. Which is strange since he defintely lost to yuuki. Yuuki and Rimuru confirmed that all the pinnacles gathered would have lost to yuuki together, he was even weaker than Velda, which is why i can't understand why he can be scaled to Yuuki. The difference was too great

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Really? Again this is a year after the fight with yuuki, why is it so hard to beleive gii is on that level? In between arcs, less than a year, rimuru's subordinates went from 7-C to 6-A, although this is a massive jump, a year has passed, and he is stated to be on that level.

This is not hard to believe, do i have to post this again?

"Those were the words that he said then. I didn't know whether it was his true feelings or not, but since I didn't want to fight with Guy either, it was just what I was hoping for. At least, I felt the indication that if Guy was serious, he might be able to fight against Yuuki on equal terms or more."

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

Even excluding eos gii is still the strongest.
Milim did not defeat gii, they fought continuously for 7 days and nights until ramiris stepped in, it's never said milim won.

Diablo isn't on gii's level, gii and milim using wrathful king satan>true dragons who are 10x>base milim who is 3x>diablo.

Diablo with his ultimate form which makes him 2x stronger is probably close to base milim but still far weaker than gii.

Gii is a genius too, it's why just a year after the fight with yuuki rimuru said he could take on yuuki who was High 3-A, then some years later he got strong enough to take on 2-B rimuru.

If milim did not defeat guy, then guy did not defeat her either. He went all out and couuldn't stop her. (Note that the series has always made a point to say that characters rampaging in a berserk manner without ego are weaker than when they do so with ego. Vega, Veldora, Kondo, Damrada, and probably some I can't recall atm. It is said milim unconsciously fought him in rage, she also confirmed she went berserk attacking everything, which is why she placed a mental block on the skill. Despite this, she did not lose. The way i interpreted it was a combination of gui and ramiris were needed to stop milim. so she is stronger with the Mana breeder engine.

I agree Diablo wasn't on gui's level, but your breakdown of the power isn't exactly true.

First, your basis diablo's evalutation is that Ciel doesn't know milim's true power, which is simply not true. Rimuru had seen Gui and knew he and Milim were on another level. His prediction was based on Milim going all out. Because he also mentioned I think, that 3 of them could have taken chloe too. The point was 3 of them together could take on any being.

Second, you chart is based on amount of Magic power, which has never been a guarantee for winning or losing. Diablo had a 50% chance of winning against Kondo and Damrada together, despite both of them having more than twice the amount of Magic he had. Kondo and Damrada were extremely skilled and had known each other for a long time, meaning their fighting together wouldn't just be an addition of their power, yet he could win.

That chart should be more like Wrathful king Satan > True Dragons >= Diablo > Base Milim. Remember even Dagruel that gave Veldora a tough fight which he won as a result of Mulitple existence, Diablo confirmed that he would have won too, but not escaping unscathed, which makes sense since he doesnt have the multiple or parallel existence.

Rimuru's surbodinates get stronger everytime he goes up a level, which is why i said i wanted to see an Eos Diablo vs Eos Gui. Because, even before rimuru became a god, Diablo would have given him a fight but still lost

lol Gui never got to the point of taking on Rimuru. Rimuru is a jobber when it comes to him taking on people. At some point or the other, he feared Diablo and Zegion would be able to fight him, even when he was clearly stronger than Milim, he still was wary about her anger. That's just Rimuru.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

Really? Again this is a year after the fight with yuuki, why is it so hard to beleive gii is on that level? In between arcs, less than a year, rimuru's subordinates went from 7-C to 6-A, although this is a massive jump, a year has passed, and he is stated to be on that level.
This is not hard to believe, do i have to post this again?

"Those were the words that he said then. I didn't know whether it was his true feelings or not, but since I didn't want to fight with Guy either, it was just what I was hoping for. At least, I felt the indication that if Guy was serious, he might be able to fight against Yuuki on equal terms or more."

Rimuru's surbodinate can jump because it is stated in the novel several times that Rimuru was an unnatural existence that just kept getting stronger without a reason, to the point of evolving daily, and as a result of the soul corridor his surbodinates have a direct line to keep getting stronger through him, and he in return can use an use any unique skill they obtain, at some point it was even stated that them getting stronger made him stronger, like some sort of perfectly "broken" circle. Ciel mentioned rimuru being special in being able to do this, and it was mentioned after reaching the pinnacle of their existence, there was nothing to evolve to for the rest. Gui included. Sure they could get more skilled but not obtain a higher form. So how then did he reach the transcendent level. Even Yuuki needed Veldanava tp transcend, and he couldn't do it completely with his body and had to put the power in the sword. So how did guy get to that level.

My interpretation of that statement was gui had gotten stronger thanks to new skills by combining gaia and his ultimate skill to obtain a stronger ultimate skill still not evolving though. Do you realize how powerful yuuki was. He could taken on chloe + all 3 dragons + guy + milim + ramiris + diablo and win. So you're saying he jumped from being weaker than Velda to that level. That pretty much an evolution which it was confirmed he can't achieve

I'm sorry but it is hard to believe, if there's some reason i've missed, which is possible, then i'd be very interested in knowing.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Milim has a lot of brute force but no hax, and her hax can't be used even if copied due to it being special, so she counters gii in that way, as for milim being stronger i think your just putting in your own interpretation there, all ramiris did was stop the fight between the two we don't know how that happened nor was it said the 2 of them was needed to stop milim. Imo they are equals.

When is it ever said diablo could handle dagruel i am curious?

Regardless velzard knew she was inferior to gii, and that's why she was jealous of chloe so still we know gii>true dragons.

You are correct that magic power doesn't always determine who wins , but gii has bs copying powers, diablo isn't doing jack to him with his inferior magic power, gii just copies all his hax.

And no rimuru's subordinates don't get stronger when rimuru does where was that ever said? It's the other way around, and they only get stronger when rimuru decides to evolve them. It's stated that everyone of them trains daily, that's why they got strong, not cause rimuru gets strong.

I guess you do have a point, as when rimuru became a demon lord they got stronger, but that's a special sort of thing that happens where you can give ppl under your command your blessings when you evolve. But besides that they don't just get stronger constantly cause of rimuru gets stronger it's the other way around, rimuru gets stronger when they do.

The way i see it you're blatantly ignoring statements which are logical considering the time skip, it's stated that gii could take yuuki, there is no reason to reject it considering this is a stronger gii a year later, if you say this is a massive jump, well welcome to fiction, smt guys train for a little bit and apparently went from high 6-A to 2-A.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

Milim has a lot of brute force but no hax, and her hax can't be used even if copied due to it being special, so she counters gii in that way, as for milim being stronger i think your just putting in your own interpretationthere, all ramiris did was stop the fight between the two we don't know how that happened nor was it said the 2 of them was needed to stop milim. Imo they are equals.
When is it ever said diablo could handle dagruel i am curious?

Regardless velzard knew she was inferior to gii, and that's why she was jealous of chloe so still we know gii>true dragons.

You are correct that magic power doesn't always determine who wins , but gii has bs copying powers, diablo isn't doing jack to him with his inferior magic power, gii just copies all his hax.

And no rimuru's subordinates don't get stronger when rimuru does where was that ever said? It's the other way around, and they only get stronger when rimuru decides to evolve them. It's stated that everyone of them trains daily, that's why they got strong, not cause rimuru gets strong.

I guess you do have a point, as when rimuru became a demon lord they got stronger, but that's sort a thing that happens where you can give ppl under your command your blessings when you evolve. But besides that they don't just get stronger constantly cause of rimuru it's the other way around, rimuru gets stronger when they do.

The way i see it you're batantly ignoring statements which are logical considering the time skip.

I didn't think that Dagruel has so much power and I'd see Veldora-san fighting with full power.

ÒÇîKufufufufu, as expected from Veldora-sama. Even I wouldn't be able to win against Demon Lord Dagruel with my body intact.ÒÇì

Diablo's statement here shows that he could win against Dagruel. If he had no chance, he would simply said even i won't win. And it's obvious why his body won't be intact. Veldora could sacrifice a lot with his clones.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

If i was being petty i could would say that doesn't prove diablo could win against dagruel, cause he only said he couldn't win with his body intact, and that doesn't prove he would win lol.

But i am not going to play any semantically games here, i think it's good support for diablo's current tiering.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

Milim has a lot of brute force but no hax, and her hax can't be used even if copied due to it being special, so she counters gii in that way, as for milim being stronger i think your just putting in your own interpretation there, all ramiris did was stop the fight between the two we don't know how that happened nor was it said the 2 of them was needed to stop milim. Imo they are equals.
When is it ever said diablo could handle dagruel i am curious?

Regardless velzard knew she was inferior to gii, and that's why she was jealous of chloe so still we know gii>true dragons.

You are correct that magic power doesn't always determine who wins , but gii has bs copying powers, diablo isn't doing jack to him with his inferior magic power, gii just copies all his hax.

And no rimuru's subordinates don't get stronger when rimuru does where was that ever said? It's the other way around, and they only get stronger when rimuru decides to evolve them. It's stated that everyone of them trains daily, that's why they got strong, not cause rimuru gets strong.

I guess you do have a point, as when rimuru became a demon lord they got stronger, but that's a special sort of thing that happens where you can give ppl under your command your blessings when you evolve. But besides that they don't just get stronger constantly cause of rimuru gets stronger it's the other way around, rimuru gets stronger when they do.

The way i see it you're blatantly ignoring statements which are logical considering the time skip, it's stated that gii could take yuuki, there is no reason to reject it considering this is a stronger gii a year later, if you say this is a massive jump, well welcome to fiction, smt guys train for a little bit and apparently went from high 6-A to 2-A.

They are linked to him through the soul corridor so they do indeed get stronger when he gets stronger. But they do not rely on just him giving them power, they train to be proficient in the use of the power he gives them. There's even the case of shion where he (Ciel) also grants her proficieny in using the power giving to her. It works both ways. Just as how Velgrind got stronger when a link to Rimuru's soul corridor was made.

I never said gai wasn't stronger than the dragons, my statement clearly said

wrathful king > true dragons >= Diablo > base milim

I'm not ignoring the statement, i'm just saying the statement is most likely to say gui had gotten stronger, like he could fight yuki, just like how Leon could fight Kazaream. Besides while i think it makes no sense story-wise, i have little problem with guy being scaled to yuuki, but scaled to rimuru. that w**king gui

Lol i know it's fiction, and i'll have 0 problems with it, if there wasn't already regularly stated points in the story that conflict with that statement. But then again i noticed the author did this some times, making a statement just to justify the relevance of a characters threat when their treat has obviously been nullified with rimuru being too OP. Happened with hinata too.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

If i was being petty i could would say that doesn't prove diablo could win against dagruel, cause he only said he couldn't win with his body intact, and that doesn't prove he would win lol.
But i am not going to play any semantically games here, i think it's good support for diablo's current tiering.

lol you're right. It's not a guarantee that he would win, and that wasn't my intention. Afterall, it wasn't a guarantee that Veldora would have won either from Ciel, Diablo and Rimuru's conversation. But it was an indication that he had a chance of winning. Putting him on the True Dragon Level. Hence my Wrathful king > True Dragon >= Diablo

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The statement blatantly says gii could fight yuuki on even terms or more. It doesn't get anymore straightforward than this.

Nothing contradicts gii scaling to yuuki, what your saying is that characters can't get stronger after timeskips, which is blatantly wrong, this regularly happens in fiction.

Yes yuuki was a major threat and extremely powerful, but that doesn't mean he can't be equaled or surpassed after a period of time.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

The statement blatantly says gii could fight yuuki on even terms or more. It doesn't get anymore straightforward than this.
Nothing contradicts gii scaling to yuuki, what your saying is that characters can't get stronger after timeskips, which is blatantly wrong, this regularly happens in fiction.

Yes yuuki was a major threat and extremely powerful, but that doesn't mean he can't be equaled or surpassed after a period of time.

More?? It said gui as he was could have fought yuuki. Unless it's a translation thing. The one i read simply said he could have fought yuuki. You seem to either be misunderstanding me or deliberately misrepresentating what i've said. I never said people don't stronger after time skip. That is a common occurence. I've stated what i meant several times above. Don't know how else to explain it

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This is the guro translations but pretty sure asain said the sme thing too:

"Those were the words that he said then. I didn't know whether it was his true feelings or not, but since I didn't want to fight with Guy either, it was just what I was hoping for. At least, I felt the indication that if Guy was serious, he might be able to fight against Yuuki on equal terms or more."

Asain translation said the same thing:

"Was what he said at that time.

I don't know if that is his true feelings or not but I don't want to fight with Guy either, so that's fine with me.

At the very least, I felt like Guy as he is now could have fought Yuuki on an even field."

This is straight forward, 1 year time skip gii=/>yuuki.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

This is the guro translations but pretty sure asain said the sme thing too:
"Those were the words that he said then. I didn't know whether it was his true feelings or not, but since I didn't want to fight with Guy either, it was just what I was hoping for. At least, I felt the indication that if Guy was serious, he might be able to fight against Yuuki on equal terms or more."

Asain translation said the same thing:

"Was what he said at that time.

I don't know if that is his true feelings or not but I don't want to fight with Guy either, so that's fine with me.

At the very least, I felt like Guy as he is now could have fought Yuuki on an even field."

This is straight forward, 1 year time skip gii=/>yuuki.

Still doesn't change anything that i've said. if you've read all of my previous posts, you'd see that i acknowledged that statement, but because of it running counter to several things previously mentioned across the story i was interpreting it in a way that still connects to everythig in the story. I even mentioned that while it didn't see the sense in it, i had no problem with eos gui being scaled that high.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well if you have no issue with him being that high, then that's that i guess, nothing further to discuss there.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

Well if you have no issue with him being that high, then that's that i guess, nothing further to discuss there.

I only continued the debate because i was trying to make a point that, the statement (while acknowleding, it was made), did not make sense following the precedent set in the novel. That it just seemed like an outlier. Though it seems you have no intention of hearing any reason aside from it was true because it was said, even if there's no reason to back it. There is no point continuing that, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Anyways the original poster said excluding Eos gui, which i pointed out before Milim was the strongest. Even by your own admission, wrathful king is the reason for guy's superiority over the true dragons. But he can only use it at 40% while using his other skills, and 90% without any other skill. Still well below milim. Since we are talking of an outrageous amount of essence 10% more is a lot. And while more mana doesn't mean stronger, aside from what i said earlier about gui being unable to beat an egoless milim, there's also the fact that gui was weaker than velda, and after milim activated satanael (which essentially makes her into the hulk) she was able to fight velda evenly (though just barely it seemed).

Milim

Same Tier

Chloe\Gui

Gui\Chloe

Same Tier

Velzard\Veldora

Diablo

Velgrind

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It can't be an outlier when it happened after a time skip, however we have agreed to disagree so i won't go back arguing that.

I never said wrathful lord satan was why gii is superior to the true dragons... And still think you're hyping up milim too much, milim and gii are equals imo.

Gii is superior to chloe, he killed her many times in the past and wasn't even trying, and wasn't even using wrathful lord satan like you suggested he would need for true dragon level people, after chloe evolved though she is at least on his level though again excluding eos.

Why are you lowballing gii so much lol, he has been established as one of the strongest demon lords along with milim and has feats backing that up.

Diablo isn't true dragon level at least in terms of energy as you already admitted, but if you want to say he is on that level due to skill that's ok i guess, but you're forgetting zegion and dino who are also on diablo's level.

 

[T_Angelus_Ballack]

It can't be an outlier when it happened after a time skip, however we have agreed to disagree so i won't go back arguing that.
I never said wrathful lord satan was why gii is superior to the true dragons... And still think you're hyping up milim too much, milim and gii are equals imo.

Gii is superior to chloe, he killed her many times in the past and wasn't even trying, after she evolved though she is at least on his level though again excluding eos.

Diablo isn't true dragon level at least in terms of energy as you already admitted, but if you want to say he is on that level due to skill that's ok i guess, but you're forgetting zegion and dino who are also on diablo's level.

I wouldn't say he killed her without even trying, they said they were both not going all out, but then mixed in serious attacks in there. I think that's a little harder because you don't know when your opponent will try to kill you, and remember chloe is at a disadvantage here because she has no reason to try to kill gui. But gui was trying to kill her because he thought he could break the curse. So we can't really use that as a basis. Chloe suspects she could kill him if she uses her skills seriously, but would lose in just a power matchup (which makes sense because chloe doesn't have monstrous amount of power, her skill is what makes her equal to guy). Even gui wasn't confident he would win in a serious fight. And then chloe pretty much powers up, which is why i think while they have similar levels of power, chloe is stronger. (Does the fact that chloe's sheer might breaks the curse that gui couldn't break count for anything?).

I agree he isn't true dragon in terms of energy but with skill, he's on that level. But I was only mentioning the 7 people regarded as the strongest in the world in that final arc. The only one missing that deserved to be there i think was dagruel. I don't think Zegion and dino and quite on that level though. Zegion, Benimaru are frequently cited as the strongest 3 but even rimuru says Diablo is the strongest, besides he's managed to defeat Benimaru everytime since the tournament. The only reason those 3 stand together with the pinnacle is even though their energy is not as much as the 3 dragons, dagruel or even dino, they are able to fight efficiently and most importantly can access Turn null. Which is why they could take on milim. That said, of the 3, diablo is the only one frequently experimenting new ways of fighting with rimuru, he probably does teach benimaru and zegion, and don't forget he even invented the way of fighting where he literally never runs out of energy as he keeps absorbing back his energy and the opponents, i don't think the others are quite on that level yet

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You're still forgetting the events of stuff that happened in previous timelines where yuuki ordered chloe to kill gii and she ended up dying and going back to the past, chloe isn't on gii's level before her upgrade. I am not talking about what happened in the final arc, this was revealed along time ago after the tournament, that chloe could time travel and that in all those timelines she died to gii.

And even just counting what happened in the final arc, chloe died multiple times to gii and he wasn't seriously trying to kill her, and chloe had to stick to sword combat cause gii would have just copied her abilities, gii has an advantage against her.

Diablo lost to benimaru in the tournament, but diablo got stronger afterwards, however by the last arc benimaru, zegion and diablo are mentioned to be on the same level, of course i think diablo is stronger cause he has his ultimate form which makes him 2x stronger, but besides from that they are equal imo.