Teeny Tiny Hollow Knight Revision Thread

[Kople700]

So, Turns out. Hollow KNight is the new SCP for me haha, who could have guessed.

Anyway to get down to brass tacks:

Why does Crystal Heart grant the knight flight? It stateson the wiki page and in the description of the item you get when you obtain it that it "Grants The Knight the ability to "Launch Forward with dangerous speed" Also: The Monarch wings should be changed to "Pseudo Flight" As once again: Looking to the official wiki page the official description for the item states "Allows one to jump once again mid-air" fitting the description of pseudo flight

Now, Concerning The Knight's "Void Manipulation" this is just sort of... Wrong? If the knight has void manipulation. Why can't he control the collector in his boss fight? Or why isn't he passive? ECT. What does grant the knight minor void manipulation are some of his spells. As Abyss Shriek is basically void pulled from sibblings in the abyss.

Now, concnerning the knight's resurrection. This is a hot topic of debate for me personally. I've brought it up before on the wiki and in the hollow knight discord a few times. And after doing a tad bit of ressearch in the game. I'd like to say with 100% certainty that it is, in fact. Not possible for the knight to resurrect (Canonically) my reasoning is as follows: Now, in the void. (One of the final areas in the game.) We come across these enemies called "Siblings" these siblings strike a odd similarity to our player character's shade. This is because Siblings are shades of long discarded vessels. And it's clearly shown that it's impossible for any of the vessels to reconnect with their shade. As the vessel itself must be destroyed for the shade to be released. Now if we want to be technical. If the vessel is somehow repaired AND has the voidheart. it could technically re unite with the shade and "Resurrect" but this is such a extremely unlikely situation that I believe it should be removed from The Knight's profile. Sadly, I can't delve into this topic any further without sharing my personal theories. I'd love to debate this further in the comments if anyone is interested. I have a multitude of other ideas

I'm not 100% done researching all the games mechanics so I'll probably end up editing this post a few times. If anyone finds any errors in my post please point them out in the relpies and I'll fix it asap! (Edit #1 Whoops! Not as teeny tiny as I thought it was going to be lol)

 

[EMagoIorSouI]

The Knight's Void Manipulation isn't even Void Manipulation to begin with, it's just darkness manipulation.

 

[Kople700]

Bump

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

• Why does Crystal Heart grant the knight flight?

Because it's clearly powered flight. The Knight has a form of propulsion and is moving forward in a straight line until either something gets in his way or he turns off the force propelling him. He also clearly has lift as he doesn't begin trailing downwards at any point. The Monarch Wings are probably Psuedo-flight though.

• Concerning The Knight's "Void Manipulation" this is just sort of... Wrong?

>Why can't he control the collector in his boss fight? Two reasons actually. The first is a bit of meta logic, but you'd lose a boss fight and the only wall on obtaining the grub guide. The more lore friendly reason would be that The Collector is it's own seperate entity and that it can resist the Knight's control, which has only been shown to control mindless shades. And it is passive. Once you have the Void Heart shades no longer harm you.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

The ressurection itself has already been repeatedly explained. The new info you brought up doesn't even debunk the previous info.

"We come across these enemies called "Siblings" these siblings strike a odd similarity to our player character's shade. This is because Siblings are shades of long discarded vessels. And it's clearly shown that it's impossible for any of the vessels to reconnect with their shade. As the vessel itself must be destroyed for the shade to be released."

>Why once again, does this matter because the siblings do it? This does not debunk the countless scans showing that the Knight's own shade is an outright canon enemy.

https://imgur.com/a/jEj8Qav

And it's already confirmed in the game manual to be YOUR shade.

https://imgur.com/a/zitK8HA

Unless you can objectively debunk this shade being a canon enemy and it being The Knight's shade, which would literally be going against the literal statements in the manaul and the in-game journal, trying to apply what Siblings do is irrelevant. I hope you also wasn't trying to argue that the siblings themselves are the enemy you face to regain your lost power.

 

[Kople700]

The ressurection itself has already been repeatedly explained. The new info you brought up doesn't even debunk the previous info.

"We come across these enemies called "Siblings" these siblings strike a odd similarity to our player character's shade. This is because Siblings are shades of long discarded vessels. And it's clearly shown that it's impossible for any of the vessels to reconnect with their shade. As the vessel itself must be destroyed for the shade to be released."

>Why once again, does this matter because the siblings do it? This does not debunk the countless scans showing that the Knight's own shade is an outright canon enemy.

https://imgur.com/a/jEj8Qav

And it's already confirmed in the game manual to be YOUR shade.

https://imgur.com/a/zitK8HA

Unless you can objectively debunk this shade being a canon enemy and it being The Knight's shade, which would literally be going against the literal statements in the manaul and the in-game journal, trying to apply what Siblings do is irrelevant. I hope you also wasn't trying to argue that the siblings themselves are the enemy you face to regain your lost power.

You arent realizing that its probably a in game mechanic. As we see literally zero other vessels just randomly resurrecting jn the abyss

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I literally just showed you scans of the shade being a canon element to the game and it outright having the same exact thing, the other vessels not doing it is irrelevant I showed you that the Knight can do it with in-canon statements.

The Shade even has the exact same attacks as the Knight fully showing it's an echo of The Knight:

Your literal only refute is "oh well the other vessels don't have that" which is something I never even claimed they had. It's not game mechanics, I've shown why.

 

[Kople700]

Dude... I dont know how to explain this to you but when a vessel looses their shade.. they are dead. Our vessel is not special in any way. Your argument is literally "its canon because its our pc's shade." Which is irrelevant to begin with. Its literally shown when you die that the shade breaks free. Shattering the vessel. So what exactly is going on there? How are you ressurecting? Because we respawn on a bench? No other vessel has done this, and ours isnt special (outside of being slightly stronger than most) respawning is a in game mechanic and NOT resurrection. If we are following your logic characters like Mario would have limited resurrection because they have lives. And since coins are canon that proves his resurrection.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Except that it's literally canon because of that? It's a canon enemy, has it's own journal entry, is apart of the game manual, and is literally stated to be an echo of a previous life, no that's not irrelevant. Just because you're inable to debunk it does not make it irrelevant. Except with Mario there's no in-canon statement that he comes back after dying so that's a full on false equivalence. Show in any canon article of coins that they're used for resurrection please. Terrible analogy. It's not a game mechanic, your argument is the exact same as before.

 

[Kople700]

It is literally impossible to explain this to you. Could we get a third opinion?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Why would I get a third option? Objectively debunk what I said, your analogy was terrible and didn't at all remotely correlate to my argument for HK and your arguments against it being game mechanics I've already shown are wrong. This has already been accepted on the profile too, there's literally no reason for a third option.

 

[Kople700]

Do me a quick favor and restate your argument as simply as possible. I promise I'm going somewhere with this I know it sounds dumb but just do it

 

[Kople700]

Bump.

 

[Kople700]

I see what you mean. My theory is that the collector basically took thr will of the corpse with the love key. Giving him a personality outside of the directives granted to him by the pale king

 

[Kople700]

Why would I get a third option? Objectively debunk what I said, your analogy was terrible and didn't at all remotely correlate to my argument for HK and your arguments against it being game mechanics I've already shown are wrong. This has already been accepted on the profile too, there's literally no reason for a third option.

You saying the shade that appears when you die proves nothing. It really makes no sense lore wise why the knight has the ability to reunite with his shade after his death. As this has not been established as a thing the void or vessels can do. You know why it makes no sense? Because uts a in game mechanic. Literally, what vessels are. Are a sort of shell. Holding the shades in. Assuming the knight is actually reuniting with his shade implies that he can exist separately from it. Which is not the case. To give a much clearer analogy, imagine a hermit crab, right? Its shell exists separate from the crab. They are not a singular entity. Its the exact same thing. Just replace the crab with the shade and replace the vessel with the shell.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

So you've basically repeated the same premise I've already elaborated on. Everything I've showed you outirght states it's Knight's shade. "It makes no sense" is not a debunk it's stated there. It's not a game mechanic, since when are journal entries game mechanics? Terrible analogy yet again, the journal clearly shows he exists seperately from it, the manual shows it, you're literally denying evidence and just trying to stack "game mechanics" everywhere. Come back when you aren't repeating yourself.

 

[Buttersamuri]

The Knight is clearly quite special

And there's even a character who straight up interacts with your Shade should you die. Two actually.

Confessor Jiji who quite literally will summon your shade (for trade of rancid eggs). Acknowledging its existince

And bringing up the collector. I'd like to bring up the collector will actually take and trap your shade in a Jar should you die in his fight.

Two times and two characters who interact with the shade

Plus the knight clearly being much more special to the others and would make sense he would have special ability not akin to other shades

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

This^

 

[Kople700]

Saying "guys hes special plz believe me" does nothing for your argument. What evidence do you have that hes more special than the others. Also: you completely and conveniently ignore my analogy. Once more so youll address it: The Vesssls are literally just that. A vessel. A vessel used to contain the shade. The vessel and the shade are literally incapable of existing simultaneously. It would be like a discarded hermit crab shell that randomly gained sentience and reunited with the crab. It makes no sense. Hence. It is a in game mechanic confessor jiji is there exclusively so players who are worse at the game can get their shade back from a dangerous area. The whole collector thing you brought up is interesting though. However it is not enough evidence to debunk what i am saying.

 

[Buttersamuri]

"Saying "guys hes special plz believe me" does nothing for your argument."

And neither does "Oh well. It is a in game mechanic confessor jiji is there exclusively so players who are worse at the game can get their shade back from a dangerous area."

Baseless claiming. Hack. Ain't no reason to believe a characters literal existence is a game mechanic. Especially when other creatures like The Collector back up a shades existence. On top of the Hunter backing up a shades existence as you can't complete his quest of finding all creatures without finding the knights Shade.

And, We don't need to debunk what you are saying. You don't have the evidence to debunk what's actually shown. Considering The Knights Shade is a acknowledged by multiple characters. And is acknowledged in your journal. A thing you literally write down enemies that you run into. Not as a game mechanic. This is something a creature gives you to write down any creature you come across. And you HAVE to come across a Shade in order to complete his mission to. Several instances where your Shade is acknowledged existing. Your only argument for Jiji is calling his literal existence a game mechanic which is utter Bull without actually evidence to back up so. Take that away and you have no argument to the characters who acknowledge the existence of the Shade, the game telling you about shades, and one big thing. After you get the void heart. The Shade acts just like the siblings. Stops attacking you. It's just the small part of the Knight that's left behind when his body dies. As stated by the game before. Everyone leaves a little something of themselves when they die. He just can come back seemingly infinitely. And needs to absorb his Shade to get his full power back

Plus. The other creatures you face are labeled as different. And when you go down into the bottom of the map. You literally run into dozens of those creatures all who exist ya know. All at once. Plus the literal shades we see end of the game.


So you are the one lacking any real evidence.

 

[Kople700]

Small necro, but I still believe that the knight isnt being resurrected. To put this into simple terms: the appearance of the knight is a shell (confirmed by monomon's tablets referring to vessels as shells) the shade is basically just inhabiting the shell. When the knight takes enough physical damage, the shell breaks, releasing the shade that was inside. This means that no death is actually happening. How can the knight resurrect when it never died in the first place

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Because the shade that the Knight fights which is his shade is literally called "an echo of a previous life" and the game manual itself outright states you died?

 

[Kople700]

I'd say that monomon is more trustworthy than the guide

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

That's an argument from belief and two sources contradict monomon.

 

[Kople700]

I mean, watching the knight die proves my point...

 

[Kople700]

Do you think the shade and the knight are different things?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

That doesn't prove your point at all, you're just repeating your same arguments yet agai.

Both scans states he dies, the shade is literally the echo of a previous life. He objectively dies.

 

[Kople700]

No. Nothing dies the shell breaks and the shade is released. That is all. Your basically acting like the outward appearance of the knight is its actual appearance. It's like thinking a shail's shell is part of the snail. And if the shell is discarded the snail does

 

[Kople700]

"An echo of a previous life " is just fluff dialogue. Or it refers to how the shades in the birthplace lived "a previous life" before their shells broke.

 

[Kidsy128]

Let me say something only partially related to all this: the Knight's travel speed can be improved with Sprintmaster. They can also equip Dashmaster, which improves their walking speed even more if Sprintmaster is already equipped.

 

[Kople700]

That's statistics amp, which I think is on its page already

 

[Kople700]

"THIR-YOLK-ABA-ABSENCE-OUTER-SHELL-O-GATE-CONTAIN"

This is a excerpt from the first monomon lore tablet. What I am able to ascertain from this is that monomon was studying the vessels when they were created.Their "Outer Shells" (the outward appearance of the knight) "Contain" the shade. And the "Absence" of the outer shell releases the shade. This is in-game dialogue proving my point that nothing dies. it's even called a "lore tablet" so common sense dictates that whatever its saying is probably right. PLUS this is written by one of the smartest bugs in halownest

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

You just repeated your arguments yet again this is getting so tireslessly repetitive.

"No. Nothing dies the shell breaks and the shade is released. That is all. Your basically acting like the outward appearance of the knight is its actual appearance. It's like thinking a shail's shell is part of the snail. And if the shell is discarded the snail does"


>Except the scans outright states he dies, the game states he dies, the journals states he dies, and you're using a possible headcanon subjective interpretation of a scene as a debunk which is just honestly sad.

""An echo of a previous life " is just fluff dialogue. Or it refers to how the shades in the birthplace lived "a previous life" before their shells broke."


>That's full on headcanon. You get the shade journal entry by literally beating your shade merely calling it "fluff dialogue" debunks absolutely nothing you have no argument here. It's clear as day the message you're meant to go by with this entry.

"This is a excerpt from the first monomon lore tablet. What I am able to ascertain from this is that monomon was studying the vessels when they were created.Their "Outer Shells" (the outward appearance of the knight) "Contain" the shade. And the "Absence" of the outer shell releases the shade. This is in-game dialogue proving my point that nothing dies. it's even called a "lore tablet" so common sense dictates that whatever its saying is probably right. PLUS this is written by one of the smartest bugs in halownest"

>Everything you've literally stated is a headcanon interpreation that takes so many more assumptions then the simple conclusion of "he died" which is supported by in-game material and canon manuals. Occam's razor would suggest he died, hitchen's razor would suggest you have no argument. Nothing here proved your point. It's literally stated by multiple sources he's dead and you take a out of context lore tablet that has nothing to do with Knight's death and proceed to use it as some support which is baffling. Not to mention it's literally stated by the bank owner that leaving geo in the bank allows you to not lose money when you die. They literally use the word "die" and guess what happens when you die in hollow knight without saving in the bank? You lose all your geo and need to get it back. Your entire argument is completely baffling and I'm just given the implication that you're so against resurrection TK that you're willing to outright ignore statements to get to your point.

 

[Kople700]

You thinking an echo of a previous life = resurrection is headconnon by this logic. the lore can be interpreted in a infinite number of ways. If we cant agree on anything this argument wont go anywhere on either end

 

[Buttersamuri]

Considering you literally come back after the you die. The game also says you are killed. And the echo is literally said to be your previous life. You are just trying to bend it to make it seem like it isn't resurrection when quite literally and bluntly was meant to be resurrection. Now nobody agrees with you. The changes aren't gonna happen. Please close this thread.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

This^

 

[Metalthegear12]

Agreed