Teen Goku Speed Upgrade

[Icyhawk43]

Currently, Goku is listed as Hypersonic+ for defeating Tao Pai Pai, who was Mach 21.

He defeated Tao Pai Pai back in the Red Ribbin Arc, however he is still listed as Hypersonic+ even though he boosted his power to King Piccolo's level, and then trained with Kami and Popo for three years. but even though he drastically boosted his power twice, he still hasn't increased his speed by even 50% what it was when he defeats Tao Pai Pai.

For the King Piccolo Arc, I think he should be bumped up to High Hypersonic since drinking the Ultra Divine Water that boosted him so far in DC (Multi-City Block to City+) should reasonably provide at least a 50% boost in Speed.

During his training with Kami, he was trained to move Faster than Lighning. It fits well with the scaling (Characters being Sub-Rel+ after the 5 Year timeskip.) and nothing contradicts them having this speed, so it should centainly be added.

Key: At least Peak Human+ | At least Supersonic+, potentially Hypersonic | Hypersonic+ (Above Tao who is Mach 21) | Hypersonic+ | At least High Hypersonic (Drastically increased his power by drinking the Ultra Divine Water) | At least Massively Hypersonic (Surpassed Kami and Mr. Popo, who claimed to move Faster than Lightning )

 

[Icyhawk43]

bump.

 

[Icyhawk43]

bump.

 

[Theron96]

I agree for the most part, it seem's weird that he goes from Teir 8-B to Tier High 6-C but stay's only Hypersonic+.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Considering we have people going from 10-B to 2-C occasionally and have normal human speed, it's not that far fetched. Anyway, we consider the faster than lightning thing a hyoerbole, as there's no feats to support it. Same with a general upgrade for speed.

 

[Theron96]

Considering we have people going from 10-B to 2-C occasionally and have normal human speed, it's not that far fetched. Anyway, we consider the faster than lightning thing a hyoerbole, as there's no feats to support it. Same with a general upgrade for speed.

Yep... sounds about right.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Considering we have people going from 10-B to 2-C occasionally and have normal human speed, it's not that far fetched. Anyway, we consider the faster than lightning thing a hyoerbole, as there's no feats to support it. Same with a general upgrade for speed.

But you are compared a random verse with DB

Where: A's power level >> B's Power level

Then A is faster stronger and more durable than B

 

[LordAizenSama]

Goku used to be MHS for that very reason. however it's as cal said it's hyperbole and therefore not usable.

as to the rest of the OP we don't give arbitrary speed ups to characters unless there is a feat to prove they are at that level

 

[Theron96]

But you are compared a random verse with DB
Where: A's power level >> B's Power level

Then A is faster stronger and more durable than B

Exactly.

 

[SomebodyData]

Pretty sure there was a MHS calc for Kid Goku.

Gonna search for it now.

 

[SomebodyData]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FanofRPGs/Goku_dodges_lasers_(Dragon_Ball)

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Consistence is beautiful

 

[SomebodyData]

it sure is

 

[Legion350]

Can this be added?

 

[Promestein]

The calc still needs to be accepted by the calc group, I think

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

What Promestein said, i believe. If the calc group accepts it, then we can upgrade the DB (part 1, of course) characters speed accordingly...

 

[Legion350]

Should this be put on the calc evaluation thread?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

^If anyone wants it to be checked out by the group that is, sure.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I could have sworn that cal wasn't accept because it assumed something about the explosion and it would have to be modified to match up with our page on how to calc explosions or something like that.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I think DT said something about that in the comment sections, yeah. @CP

 

[Promestein]

Goku used to be MHS for that very reason. however it's as cal said it's hyperbole and therefore not usable.

as to the rest of the OP we don't give arbitrary speed ups to characters unless there is a feat to prove they are at that level

Aizen is right, also.

Without feats, Goku at this time will remain at At least Hypersonic+.

 

[LTB2000]

He does have a feat, which is moving faster than lightning.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Aizen is right, also.

Without feats, Goku at this time will remain at At least Hypersonic+.

Then we should downgrade all the characters from Saiyan Saga Vegeta to Third From Frieza


Because there's no proof that they're Relativistic

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

There's legit scaling from them (which is a whole other ball game that I'm not sure I want to cover) from the SBC scaling and KK multiplier scaling. No legit scaling exists for part one. No one has feats to put it above HS+ or multipliers to help.

@LTB. Did Goku outrace lightning? Or did he dodge lightning. Because if it's the latter, it definitely doesn't equate to moving faster than lightning, and I seem to recall it being the former.

 

[LTB2000]

He can move faster than lightning. It was stated by Mr. Popo that he needed to move faster than lightning to stand a chance against piccolo. And I'm pretty sure he outraced it during one of his trainings there.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Goku never outpassed lightning in canon that was just filler in the anime it never happened in the manga.

 

[LTB2000]

I'm pretty sure that he can do it in his teens, otherwise, he would've failed the training, and would've lost in his fight with piccolo.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Moving faster than lightning was hyperbole he never showcased the feats to be able to move that fast yes clearly goku isn't still hypersonic+ and is faster but we don't know to what extent which is why he is at least hypersonic+.

 

[Promestein]

Statements are unreliable.

 

[Kavpeny]

• You're assuming multiplier of speed and multiplier of AP are linear, when there have been no indications, apart from the Kaio-ken technique, to indicate as such.
• I know that Dragon Ball is not the most precise of franchises, but please do have something legitimate to show for the upgrade. We will NOT upgrade characters simply because it "fits in".
  • Even so, assuming "at least 50% bump" is, once again, a shot in the dark at best. Rather than have a rating based on guesswork which we cannot justify apart from the statistic "fitting in", I would rather we stick to a precise, known value instead.

Statements are unreliable.

Not always, but in this case, certainly.

Statements are acceptable, but if feats afterwards do not support the statement, then the statement is considered hyperbole.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

*You're assuming multiplier of speed and multiplier of AP are linear, when there have been no indications, apart from the Kaio-ken technique, to indicate as such.

Super Saiyan Goku vs Kaio-ken X50 Goku


Who wins?

 

[LTB2000]

Super saiyan since goku will most likely die while using kaioken times 50.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Super saiyan since goku will most likely die while using kaioken times 50.

If you got the point.

Don't make jokes about it.

 

[LTB2000]

When was I making jokes about the kaioken?

 

[Promestein]

There was, for the record, another calc that put 23rd Budokai Goku and Piccolo at High Hypersonic, I think.

Here.

 

[Icyhawk43]

*You're assuming multiplier of speed and multiplier of AP are linear, when there have been no indications, apart from the Kaio-ken technique, to indicate as such.

-snip-

Statements are acceptable, but if feats afterwards do not support the statement, then the statement is considered hyperbole.

Vegeta states that with a power level increase also comes a speed increase. Meaning Power Levels are a boost of both AP and Speed.

And since Power Levels were put in the Orginal Dragonball we can scale things off them.

22nd Budokai Goku has a Power Level of 180.

King Piccolo has a Power Level of 260.

Meaning King Piccolo is at least 1.44x Faster than 22nd Budokai Goku, who was already faster than TaoPaiPai. This is also huge lowballing. Power Levels are exponential. 50% Faster makes perfect sense.

As for the feats afterward supporting the statement, we have a normal Ki Blast after the timeskip being Sub-Rel. Unless somehow those 5 Yeats boosted Piccolo from Hypersonic+ to Sub-Rel, I see nothing wrong with thinking that Piccolo was already Lightning Speed. By "fits in" I meant "consistent"

Hypersonic+ ----> Hypersonic+ ----> Hypersonic+ ----> Sub-Rel

or

Hypersonic+ ----> High Hypersonic ----> MHS ----> Sub-Rel

 

[Promestein]

Icyhawk, power levels are not linear and cannot be used to scale like this.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

^This. Or else we'd have mountain level farmer with a shotgun

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I agree fully with what Cal and Prom have said on that.

 

[Promestein]

Besides, we should be discussing the High Hypersonic calc.