Tatsumaki (OPM) tornado of terror Vs Madara Uchiha

[Bleuburd]

^I see, That swapping to a clone is useful. The thing you fail to answer however is how Madara could break through Tat's shield (We know that at it's weakest it has mountain level dura), and no I don't think clone spamming will do the trick. What are Madara's strongest range attacks? Because I honestly can't see him making physical contact with Tats unless he has TP. Also Tatsumaki will not be feeling fatigued from simple clone spamming, since she once massacred 10,000 BS (name abbreviated for sanitary purposes), each one a perfect copy of the other, one is enough to stomp Genos. Also this version of Madara has Mountain level durability, too low to fight against someone who could casually kill more durable opponents. His strongest attack is Island, Tatsumaki took the same amount (if not more) in her weak form and survived. True the Immortality thing is annoying, but that only augments Madaras defense, can he even Damage the brat?

 

[Damage3245]

Pretty sure Madara only ever swapped out to his Limbo? No character as far as I'm aware has just swapped places on the spot with a conventional clone.

The gravity-user could flatten human Garo to the ground, and immobilize Silver Fang. (Both cases creating a crater underneath the affected victim.) In the anime, Geryuganshoop, a comparable telekinetic user, claimed to be able to create black-hole levels of gravity.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Bleuburd

Yes, it is. I already mentioned that Madara could spam his strongest attacks and with the aid of his clones, it becomes much easier. Reason for this? I'll just copy and paste the reasons I've mentioned on this matter before. If he needs to get in close, he can do that by travelling underground, summoning that chameleon and hiding in it to become invisible or concealing himself with that fire technique that releases ash to blind the user. His wood clones can also fuse with the surroundings and make it hard for Tatsumaki to notice and destroy all of them. His pollen doesn't need to destroy her barriers as she will get knocked out by inhaling it because she still needs to breathe. I didn't mean to convey that she would get tired from clones, I mean she'll get tired as the battle wears on. His durability doesn't matter. It was said that he could take an attack from the Juubi. You know, the same Juubi that's Country level. I already said he could spam his attacks, but never mind since Madara's likely going to be upgraded to High 6-C.

@Damage3245

Naruto regularly does it. Didn't Madara also do that when he faked his death? Hashirama also switched with a wood clone to deliver the final blow to Madara in their final battle. He can also use Replacement Jutsu so...

Human Garou and Bang are not on Madara's level or Tatsumaki's. And Tatsumaki doesn't have resistance to Gravity Manipulation on her page so it's another advantage for Madara. Also, what about Madara sealing her with Chibaku Tensei?

@Shadowbokunohero


Did you count my vote for Madara?

 

[Damage3245]

What do you mean another advantage for Madara? If it is not on her page it's just a missing power. She did it in the webcomic so she has resistence to it. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6znhIrfoz...buO8LSAlxiN34WZIoE0p4wCHM/s16000/0062-007.png

 

[Bleuburd]

@ burningfinger

Tatsumaki fights in the air though, maybe 30 meters high, so resurfacing from underground wouldn't bring you closer to her. Also the inhaling pollen stuff, her barrier has been constantly shown to block miscellaneous stuff, like blood and debris, it also appears to be combat passive (it's never shown to be down while in combat), of the two occasions in webcomic where her shield was thought to be "down" a later panel always reveals that it's actually deployed. Also we're using 6-C Madara here (it's specified in the title), so no country level feats. Also she has something like a sixth sense that lets her locate beings around her, this skill is especially prominent in the MA arc, so invisibility and and hidden will not be a problem. I must stress though, Psykos, another esper did manage to fool and deceive her twice, by using misdirection (decoy on first instance, her teammates on the other).

 

[Omega998]

Since went edo madara use limbo? WHY USE ALIVE MADARA ABILITY? This is edo madara

What make madara can use all nagoto power? And again this is edo madara

Just because madara have rinnegan does not meant he can use all rinnegan power.example naruto has chakra does that meant he can use all power like kiba,gaara etc? No right

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

Limbo + Soul steal = GG

I vote for madara

Also, is genjutsu allowed here?

 

[Bleuburd]

Limbo + Soul steal = GG
I vote for madara

Also, is genjutsu allowed here?

No limbo for this version. I believe we're using edo tensei here.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Damage3245

That doesn't necessarily mean she has resistance. In the manga, in Kaguya's Gravity Dimension, she moved her arm and used her ash bones. That doesn't mean she has resistance to it. In Fairy Tail, Gildarts moved under Bluenote's Gravity Manipulation (which seems to work exactly like Psykos' does) and even Lucy could move under it before he increased the pressure. Doesn't give them resistance to it. And Psykos is much weaker than Madara and Tatsumaki. It's not really impressive, I think.

@Bleuburd

If Madara resurfaces from behind her, he can catch her off guard. Blocking debris and blood is not related to what I'm saying. Pollen is like gas, you know, like oxygen. Except Tatsumaki's barriers can block oxygen? Anyway, the pollen penetrated Madara's Susanoo which also acts like a barrier around the user so there's that. Yes, I was referring to Edo Madara when I said he could take an attack from the Juubi.

@Omega998

We've already dropped the issue of Limbo. Madara clearly used the Deva Path, Preta Path and Outer Path. It was his Rinnegan Nagato/Pain was using all the time to perform those techniques.

 

[Omega998]

@Damage3245

That doesn't necessarily mean she has resistance. In the manga, in Kaguya's Gravity Dimension, she moved her arm and used her ash bones. That doesn't mean she has resistance to it. In Fairy Tail, Gildarts moved under Bluenote's Gravity Manipulation (which seems to work exactly like Psykos' does) and even Lucy could move under it before he increased the pressure. Doesn't give them resistance to it. And Psykos is much weaker than Madara and Tatsumaki. It's not really impressive, I think.

@Bleuburd

If Madara resurfaces from behind her, he can catch her off guard. Blocking debris and blood is not related to what I'm saying. Pollen is like gas, you know, like oxygen. Except Tatsumaki's barriers can block oxygen? Anyway, the pollen penetrated Madara's Susanoo which also acts like a barrier around the user so there's that. Yes, I was referring to Edo Madara when I said he could take an attack from the Juubi.

@Omega998

We've already dropped the issue of Limbo. Madara clearly used the Deva Path, Preta Path and Outer Path. It was his Rinnegan Nagato/Pain was using all the time to perform those techniques.

Yes but that not edo madara and hashirama said madara can use his old power went he was alive(alive madara) btw i not sure about this i will check later

 

[AquaWaifu]

@Burning

you generally cant use completly unrelated series to this discussion to make a point for yourself.


that feat against Juubi was not country it was mountain. Edo Madara has mountain level durability.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Omega998

Didn't Kabuto say that he added modifications to Madara's body to make him stronger?

@AquaWaifu

Why not? Bluenote's Gravity Manipulation works the same way as Psykos and someone on his level and even weaker than him moved under it. Why should Tatsumaki get resistance to it when it was someone weaker than both herself and Madara that used it to no avail on her?

I'm not talking about the Juubi's Tenpenchii. Even KCM Naruto tanked that and his durability is not Mountain level. Or maybe the force of the attack was different when it hit Madara. Dunno. Anyway, I'm talking about its Bijuudama. Madara was stated to be able to take the attack and regenerate from it.

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

Limbo + Soul steal = GG
I vote for madara

Also, is genjutsu allowed here?

Is Genjutsu allowed or not?

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

Since went edo madara use limbo?
WHY USE ALIVE MADARA ABILITY? This is edo madara

What make madara can use all nagoto power? And again this is edo madara

Just because madara have rinnegan does not meant he can use all rinnegan power.example naruto has chakra does that meant he can use all power like kiba,gaara etc? No right

Since when did being alive became a neccessity to use limbo? Its Madara's rinnegan property. Only rinnegan ability that needs user to be alive is Rinne Rebirth

 

[Omega998]

What i said above is about edo madara.

Btw from what i see 4 vote for tatsumaki or 5 not sure about AquaWaifu

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

................ And thats what I am talking about? Madara can use rinnegan techniques, AKA limbo and other six paths of pain (Only exception is rinne birth)

And Limbo+ Soul steal = GG

Also, If genjutsu is allowed, Madara oneshots again

 

[AquaWaifu]

What i said above is about edo madara.
Btw from what i see 4 vote for tatsumaki or 5 not sure about AquaWaifu

Im for Tatsumaki, here telekinesis and flight are big pros for her.

 

[AquaWaifu]

................ And thats what I am talking about? Madara can use rinnegan techniques, AKA limbo and other six paths of pain (Only exception is rinne birth)
And Limbo+ Soul steal = GG

Also, If genjutsu is allowed, Madara oneshots again

Edo Madara did not have a "real" rinnegan. He could NOT use Limbo. Edo Tensei rinnegans are fake.

http://www.**********.com/naruto/659/9

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

I dont see how teleknesis or flight have any relevancy against an opponent

>Who has unlimited stamina

>Who is basically immortal

While tatsumaki does have stamina issues. Besides she doesnt have anything for limbo, soul stealing or genjutsu

 

[AquaWaifu]

Also whats to stop Tatsumaki from using Madara's own chakra and do what she attmepted to do to Saitama?


Also flung out into space?


Also, whats to stop her from resisting genjutsu, in terms of verse equalization, whatever in Tatsumaki would be affected she'd probably notice something. given her powers

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

How's Tatsumaki supposed to kill a dead man with Low-High Regenerationn? It's not possible for her.

He can easily switch with a clone or use Replacement Jutsu.

Does she have any feats or showings of resistance to Mind Manipulation from someone around her level?

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

I dont know what she did to saitama, please brush up my memory here

She is not sending Madara "to space" when she failed to do so against saitama. Besides Madara himself has teleknesis and gravity Manipulation, so Tatsumaki trying to bfr Madara here is not gonna happen

I dont remember tatsumaki being able to resist illusions

 

[AquaWaifu]

or those two techniques like teleportation? Cause...I never really got HOW replacement jutsu actually works.


Plus...she could just send BOTH into space.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

He can switch with inanimate objects around him. Also, wasn't Edo Madara shown flying against the Five Kage? His wood clones can merge with their surroundings. Once they do so and get near Tatsumaki's location, he can switch with them and she wouldn't even know. And well, she has no counter for Madara's Mind Manipulation. He can seal her in Chibaku Tensei too.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Not gonna argue a lot here since you guys have it covered but I have to say, two reasons why Tatsumaki failed?

A) It's Saitama who's multi-continental and was deemed too heavy by Tats

B) She's still injured and recovering, which makes it even more possible that she could've just tossed him into space at full health

 

[AquaWaifu]

Not gonna argue a lot here since you guys have it covered but I have to say, two reasons why Tatsumaki failed?
A) It's Saitama who's multi-continental and was deemed too heavy by Tats

B) She's still injured and recovering, which makes it even more possible that she could've just tossed him into space at full health

even then Saitama is multi continental casual. We have no idea if Tatsumaki's limit is against multicontinent durability Remember she was basically dealing whatever is Saitama's actual durability is.


maybe.... i dont know.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Didn't Saitama resist her powers because of his willpower? Anyway, I didn't say Tatsumaki couldn't lift Madara. I'm saying Madara can switch with his clones or inanimate objects.

The battlefield is to Madara's advantage too. He can transform the plants and trees to full blown forests and release large amounts of pollen.

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

Not gonna argue a lot here since you guys have it covered but I have to say, two reasons why Tatsumaki failed?
A) It's Saitama who's multi-continental and was deemed too heavy by Tats

B) She's still injured and recovering, which makes it even more possible that she could've just tossed him into space at full health

There is nothing indicating she can just send an opponent who is as strong as her to space. And as a bonus, Madara himself has teleknesis and gravity manipulation, so it would be better if this isnt brought up again

@Aqua

"or those two techniques like teleportation? Cause...I never really got HOW replacement jutsu actually works.


Plus...she could just send BOTH into space."

I honestly dont understand what are you talking about here

 

[Damage3245]

Madara only used Limbo when he was returned to life.

Other abilities such as summoning the Gedo Mazo require the Rinnegan user to be alive as well.

Edo Madara was never flying.

Victory via Chibaku Tensei requires the gravity of the Chibaku Tensei to be superior to Tatsumaki's telekinesis.

Madara doesn't have telekinesis and he doesn't have resistence to telekinesis like Saitama has displayed.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Didn't Saitama resist her powers because of his willpower? Anyway, I didn't say Tatsumaki couldn't lift Madara. I'm saying Madara can switch with his clones or inanimate objects.
The battlefield is to Madara's advantage too. He can transform the plants and trees to full blown forests and release large amounts of pollen.

the same forests of which Tatsumaki can force right back at him....and given she has TK whats to stop her from contolling the pollen before it gets to her? its physical matter aint it?


also how does he switch? is it like teleportation, I never got how that worked. I mean I get mind switch technique bu the replacemnt jutsu just seemd odd.

 

[Damage3245]

The Replacement Jutsu is just high-speed movement, not teleportation.

The only character that can teleport to swap places with something is Sasuke using his Rinnegan.

 

[AquaWaifu]

The Replacement Jutsu is just high-speed movement, not teleportation.
The only character that can teleport to swap places with something is Sasuke using his Rinnegan.

so how would he able to use that when he is being outwardly flung into space? he'd have to ovverirde her TK. Could he?

 

[Damage3245]

The Replacement Jutsu is just high-speed movement, not teleportation.
The only character that can teleport to swap places with something is Sasuke using his Rinnegan.

so how would he able to use that when he is being outwardly flung into space? he'd have to ovverirde her TK. Could he?

He wouldn't be able to use it, and I don't think as an Edo Zombie he could overcome her telekinesis.

 

[AquaWaifu]

@Damage


so would he able to use mind switch on a clone?

 

[Damage3245]

Madara doesn't switch minds, he only substituted a Limbo clone for himself which he did once to escape Naruto & Sasuke.

There's nothing implying he could swap places physically with clones at a distance.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Wait can Edo madara even USE Limbo?

 

[Damage3245]

He never used it while he was an Edo Zombie. He only used Limbo after coming back to life.

 

[Cropfist]

Tatsumaki for reasons above.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@AquaWaifu

I didn't say Madara would attack her with the forests he creates. I said it would give him the battlefield advantage. Now if his clones fuse with the plants and trees and Tatsumaki raises them up to her level using telekinesis, one of them can detach himself from the tree and rip her soul out. So Tatsumaki can control something that works like oxygen now. Proof? Otherwise, NLF.

@Damage3245

No, that's wrong. Replacement Jutsu allows the user to replace himself with objects around him. You are mistaking it with Shunshin no Jutsu so yes, it's an option for Madara to escape BFR.

>There's nothing implying he could swap places physically with clones at a distance.

What? Naruto does it regularly. Madara switched with a clone to fake his death. Hashirama switched with a wood clone to deliver the final blow to Madara. Which makes both of your arguments for Madara not escaping BFR void.

Basically the only way for Tatsumaki to win is to BFR Madara. Which won't work because Madara can switch with objects or his clones. Madara has more realistic chances of winning. When he blinds Tatsumaki with the ash from his Fire Release, he can get behind her and do whatever he wants. His clones that fuse with the surroundings and appear behind Tatsumaki, can use multiple wood dragons to bind her and knock her out, use Bliss Bringing Hands for the same, utilize the Outer Path and bind/incapacitate her with chakra chains, summon meteorites behind her and one-shot her (since she's City level without barriers) or release large amounts of pollen behind her and knock her out. And I'm not seeing any counter for his Mind Manipulation. He just uses it and leaves her in a vegetable-like state. Again, there's only one person that'll be getting tired no matter how long it takes and he can spam his attacks with no problems at all.

 

[AquaWaifu]

If it was teleportation then Minato's signature flying thunder god technique would hold significantly less impact.

Substituion can only be done if the opponent is not paying close attention or is distracted.

Sasuke was stunned when Tobi told him that Bee had pulled one off because Sasuke kept his eyes on Bee nearly the whole time and even had Karin track him. Again if it worked how you seem to be explaining it, this event with Sasuke wouldnt make any sense.


Not to mention if he is BFRed Madara can't just use any object, he has to be atleast somewhat close to it in some extent. its not like he can see a log 6 miles away and swap places with it.

Plus Tatsumaki has chi manipulation, giving her a method to abuse his huge amount of chakra to Madara's detriment.