Tatsumaki (OPM) tornado of terror Vs Madara Uchiha

[Bleuburd]

seriously someone close this, we're obviously not gonna reach a conclusion like this.

^ on the above note. If genjutsu was so good why didn't Madara just genjutsu everyone? not debating just asking a real question. Could it be something like it's not applicable for battle? IIRC it's easily dispellable.

 

[Joseph619]

seriously someone close this, we're obviously not gonna reach a conclusion like this.
^ on the above note. If genjutsu was so good why didn't Madara just genjutsu everyone? not debating just asking a real question. Could it be something like it's not applicable for battle? IIRC it's easily dispellable.

He did on raikage. Why would he use genjutsu on unnamed fodders? Madara didn't even use shinra tensei or bansho tenin on anybody.

 

[Bleuburd]

Well that didn't answer anything. I was asking because you presented this as a means for Madara to win, but it turns out, Madara doesn't even bother to use it, you even proved that he doesn't use shinra or bansho. "In character" is a rule that states characters only fight with their normal mindset, meaning captain america would stick to his shield instead of weilding a greatsword, and Goku wouldn't suckerpunch his opponent for instant ko, and in Madara's case as you pointed out he doesn't use genjutsu or shinra tensei or bansho tenin. Cause if we're going off-character here then Tatsumaki could just psychic whirlwind her way to victory, because we know she knows that move, even though she never used it.

 

[Joseph619]

Well that didn't answer anything. I was asking because you presented this as a means for Madara to win, but it turns out, Madara doesn't even bother to use it, either this or he can't use it on certain enemies. Based on my observations only, you can't use this to mind control a human on the same tier, you can only trap them in an illusion. Meaning that when used on Tatsumaki it'd only induce basic genjutsu, and genjutsu doesn't kill, and also gets dispelled when the target is attacked. Tatsumaki has shields up even when unconscious so being affected by it would only render her immobile not defenseless, and when she notices the illusion she'd easily dispel it. Of course that is if Tatsumaki is even susceptible to Genjutsu, has Madara ever used it on someone his tier?

Sasuke used genjutsu on Bee who was stronger than him. Genjutsu will one shot anybody without resistance.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Well....thats certainly not a NLF.


So what EXACTLY IS a genjutsu and what would one need under verse equalization to resist it? mind manipulation, sense manipulation, chi/aura manipulation.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Genjutsu as I understand it is the ability to maniulate the chakra in an enemy's brain via sending out their own chakra via one of the five senses. Considering Tats has her physic signal deflecting shield, genjutsu isn't worrking on her

 

[AquaWaifu]

and...there goes one of Madara's best ways to deal with Tatsumaki.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Ok so the OP doesn't really help clarifying what Madara is this, but reading the thread, this is Edo Madara.

I'm gonna go with Tatsumaki here. Once she figures out Madara needs seals to perform techniques, he isn't doing them anytime soon anymore since she'll interrupt it with her TK by ripping his limbs apart.

Genjutsu won't work on her due to her resistance to mental attacks and Madara doesn't have acess to the Rinnegan, meaning he can't summon the statue, he can't use the Path's powers.

His sharingan precog has no value here since she uses TK. Also Edo Madara can't fly so he'll get flinged in space with no means of ever turning back.

 

[Joseph619]

Well....thats certainly not a NLF.

So what EXACTLY IS a genjutsu and what would one need under verse equalization to resist it? mind manipulation, sense manipulation, chi/aura manipulation.

Resistance to illusion and mind control. Having control over chakra doesn't mean anything, even fodder genin can control their chakra. All chunin and above have been taught in dispelling genjutsu. Madara paralyzes kage level characters with a glance.

You scaling Tatsumaki from Fubuki is the same as saying Goku can resist telepathy because Vegeta resisted it. You can't give powerscale hax. Willpower breaking any illusion is pure NLF.

 

[Joseph619]

Ok so the OP doesn't really help clarifying what Madara is this, but reading the thread, this is Edo Madara.
I'm gonna go with Tatsumaki here. Once she figures out Madara needs seals to perform techniques, he isn't doing them anytime soon anymore since she'll interrupt it with her TK by ripping his limbs apart.

Genjutsu won't work on her due to her resistance to mental attacks and Madara doesn't have acess to the Rinnegan, meaning he can't summon the statue, he can't use the Path's powers.

His sharingan precog has no value here since she uses TK. Also Edo Madara can't fly so he'll get flinged in space with no means of ever turning back.

Madara got vaporized by Jinton, what would telekinesis do? Edo Zombies can regenerate infinitely and feel no pain. She would be wasting her time trying to damage Madara. Why do you think they needed seal?

 

[ScarletFirefly]

I know Edos regen infinitely. Still she can use TK to rip off his arms to prevent him from weaving seals, then rip apart the rest of his body and fling the remains in space before he regens.

 

[Joseph619]

I know Edos regen infinitely. Still she can use TK to rip off his arms to prevent him from weaving seals, then rip apart the rest of his body and fling the remains in space before he regens.

Madara regenerated from atomic disintegration in 1 panel. Telekinesis won't do anything to him.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Yeah Madara was very slightly bruised on his shoulder by the Jinton, but he did that on purpose to show off. That was a small surface and the bruise was minimal, which is why the regen ended rather fast. It will take him more to regen whole limbs.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Ok first, 1 panel is a very bad judge of timeframe. Second, even if he can regen immediately from being ripped apart, she can literally just keep ripping him apart constantly, or just squish him into a small ball and used her powers to keep him like that. Third, we judge hax and hax resistance on their AP - what's their tier, and who is the strongest they've used it on. For example, if a character is 5B, and has mind hax that can affect a solar system level being, then no-one below solar system is going to be resisting that (unless of course they have resisted a mind hax before). Fubuki is far (like a lot!) weaker than Tats, yet was able to resist a 7-B's mind control. So it's not that unreasonable to judge that Tats, who has all of Fubuki's powers and then some, but far better, would be able to resist a mind-hax on her own level.

And, like I said, she deflects physic signals, which are basically how Genjutsu is transmitted, so no, Genjutsu is not working on Tats,

 

[AquaWaifu]

You scaling Tatsumaki from Fubuki is the same as saying Goku can resist telepathy because Vegeta resisted it. You can't give powerscale hax. Willpower breaking any illusion is pure NLF.

I scaled Tats from Fubuki because they are literally sisters with the same set of powers and Tatsumaki has shown before to know a technique Fubuki had learned herself and thought to have been something of her own. Also the resist to mind manipulayion was from Fubuki's will....I HIGHLY DOUBT her's is higher than Tatsumaki's.

 

[Bleuburd]

So i guess this means we continue. You keep asking about how Tatsumaki could resist genjutsu, and we've already given answers, and I think that's enough. Now i ask this, how could Madara resist Tatsumaki's TK? It's potency and utility is extreme, to the point where Tatsumaki could just incap Madara then throw him into space, and also how she can control other peoples chakra with ease. How about the fact that Tatsumaki's current tier is from her casual/weakened state, meaning even her basic attacks are of the island level? Even her shields are seemingly always active (although the strength of the shield varies), the weakest version of it is even capable of tanking City+ AP.

And you keep saying that Madara will survive because he's immortal, but after Tatsumaki realizes that then she'll just give up on damaging Madara and resort to BFR (to space) or incap (deep underground), like what she did to Saitama.

True Madara can revive infinitely (theoretically), but it's not that impressive if you put into account that his enemy can kill him instantly (Tatsumaki's favorite way of dealing with her enemy). And with the huge amount of chakra in an edo tensei's body I don't think Madara could pull of the " you thought i'm dead but I'm actually Dio!' technique.

 

[AquaWaifu]

the way I see it, its like twisting a plastic bottle in your hands...if you let go it's gonna reform to its normal shape but if constant pressure is applied it cant reform.


Samething here, Madara cant make seals or FULLY regenerate (keyword fully) if his hands/limbs are CONSTANTLY twisted up by her TK....otherwise you'd have to get me to believe he could do seals with 100,000lb weights on his hands (I know 100k pounds possibly actually isnt much to someone like Madara but you KNOW what Im trying to convey here)

Hell you try and move your fingers while someone else tightly grips your entire hand...its kinda really hard to do so.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Everyone here has his own opinion,and as i see nobody is going to change it,ppl here just reply to each other non stop saying the same thing.It should be inconclusive.

 

[Blanked]

I give this to Madara via reasons above.

Now you can close the thread.


13-10

 

[ScarletFirefly]

^Actually it's 13-11. My vote isn't counted in the OP yet

 

[Blanked]

^you don't count. Now leave.

Really can someone put inconclusive and close this thing.

 

[Ryukama]

Over 300 posts and still seemingly going nowhere.

I'll just add this as inconclusive. If someone has an issue with that they can message my wall or post on the Match Up Removal Thread.