Vizer04
He/Him- 5,167
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You might want to rename this thread as "Tatsumaki Upgrade".
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Tatsumaki and Psykos Upgrade
- Thread starter LordTracer
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Currently neutral on Saitama getting "possibly far higher". On the one hand, he massively overpowers them, but on the other hand, he still had to use serious moves to counter their strongest attacks.
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I mean, he uses serious moves on characters much weaker on them. So the name may not mean much.
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btw, he used serious punch against elder centipede
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I don't think Boros or Tatsumaki should be upscaling to Low 5-B. Otherwise that suggestion looks fine.
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Supposedly, he thinks he can now kill someone who one shot him supposedly.
Although the statement for it was something along the lines of: "I'm going to kill that baldy who destroyed me" or something. May not mean what I just said. Take that as you will.
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This is the image in case anyone needs it. The raw may mean something different maybe
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I see no reason to take such a statement seriously. Both the context and narrative make it clear that Orochi isn't remotely comparable to Saitama, let alone anyone in the verse. This is cleary a statement that's false, especially with how Arrogant Pysko is in her abilities.
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Psykos didn't say it, Orochi did as he was possessing her.
Psykos isn't even that arrogant, anyway. She just believed that Tatsumaki wasn't leagues above Fubuki at first, and Tatsumaki always held back massively until she twisted PsykoOrochi.
Saitama always holds back. All Orochi would know is that Saitama could one-shot him previously. It's not as if he has fourth wall awareness to see that Saitama's narratively superior.
Psykos isn't even that arrogant, anyway. She just believed that Tatsumaki wasn't leagues above Fubuki at first, and Tatsumaki always held back massively until she twisted PsykoOrochi.
Saitama always holds back. All Orochi would know is that Saitama could one-shot him previously. It's not as if he has fourth wall awareness to see that Saitama's narratively superior.
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Doesn't really matter here contextually, neither characters would be able to defeat Saitama even with him holding back.
Wait what? You just provided blatant contradiction. If Orochi could tell that Saitama could one shot him that makes his claim of "tearing him to shreds" moot. Even when Saitama holds back his durability isn't reduced only his strength is, as shown by him tanking everything in the series thus far. It wouldn't make sense to even give him a "possibly" rating that scales to Saitama.
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It does matter contextually, as they were amped.
Orochi would have no idea how durable Saitama is. Again, it's not as if he has fourth wall awareness, or even the strength to actually test Saitama's full durability.
Orochi believes he can defeat someone far more powerful than his base form, so that indicates he's a lot more powerful. This is all I'm saying. I'm not claiming he's somehow comparable to Saitama's full power.
Orochi would have no idea how durable Saitama is. Again, it's not as if he has fourth wall awareness, or even the strength to actually test Saitama's full durability.
Orochi believes he can defeat someone far more powerful than his base form, so that indicates he's a lot more powerful. This is all I'm saying. I'm not claiming he's somehow comparable to Saitama's full power.
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Them being amped =/= being equal or comparable to Saitama. They never interact with Saitama, Ergo they have no reason to scale to him based upon statement.
It doesn't matter if he knows how durable Saitama is, if anything that just proves my point due to Orochi lacking any knowledge on Saitama's stats. Forth Wall awareness is irrelevant here and has zero correlation to his statement of him believing he can beat Saitama. This is false both in narrative, context and feats. This also implies that Tatsumaki is stronger than Saitama as well and I'm not even going to bother addressing as to why that's wrong.
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No one is saying Tatsumaki is stronger than Saitama?
The argument is that Orochi now believes he can defeat someone who can one shot him. That shows that Psykorochi > Orochi in his eyes.
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What? Orochi interacted with Saitama. He was almost killed by him.
It feels like you're not even listening to what I'm actually saying (it's certainly not that they scale to Saitama), so I'm just going paragraph by paragraph.
For the trillionth time, literally nobody knows how strong Saitama is. The point is that an amped Orochi believed he could beat Saitama after he was one-shot by him. Ergo, PsykoOrochi is considerably stronger than his previous state.
It feels like you're not even listening to what I'm actually saying (it's certainly not that they scale to Saitama), so I'm just going paragraph by paragraph.
No it doesn't prove your point even slightly. Orochi knows Saitama's far stronger than himself. What he doesn't know is that it's an astronomical gap.
So why do you keep bringing stuff like narrative into this? Orochi doesn't know of Saitama's past feats or that he's broken his limiter. The only thing he does know is that Saitama's much, much stronger than himself.
For the trillionth time, literally nobody knows how strong Saitama is. The point is that an amped Orochi believed he could beat Saitama after he was one-shot by him. Ergo, PsykoOrochi is considerably stronger than his previous state.
No it doesn't. Again, Saitama never uses his full power. PsykoOrochi believes Tatsumaki is above Saitama from what they've experienced. It's wrong (because, for the zillionth time, nobody actually knows how strong Saitama is), but it absolutely does nothing to show that amped Orochi isn't tremendously stronger than Orochi.
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He thinks of it as nothing [1] but just a name he randomly, made of. The fact how he causally throw the word serious squirt gun, tells everything.
And In reality no one could really tank his serious normal punch, [2] in the first place.
And what a joke it's not possibly, it's obviously he's massively far superior than him and to everyone else.
Those both feats is from chapter 92.5? reality punch, iirc.
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I agree with likely higher.
IIRC just "higher" in this instance puts Saitama in the FOE range most likely.
IIRC just "higher" in this instance puts Saitama in the FOE range most likely.
PrinceofPein
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In that context it maybe because of his resentment that's why he said he will find Saitama afterwards actually
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And I never said they did? I'd suggest sitting down and letting the two users who are in the middle of a debate actually debate instead of interjecting.
Which in of itself is blatant contradiction. If he believes he can beat someone who one shot him but also got defeated by an inherently weaker characters automatically disqualifies him from scaling to the stronger character in question. Either read the arguments at hand or don't reply to said arguments.
... are you even reading what your arguing at this point man? Saitama almost killed him before and got still got defeated by Tatsumaki, someone who's objectively weaker than the likes of Saitama.
The feeling is pretty much mutual here to be frank.
Do you even know the definition of far?
adverb
at, to, or by a great distance (used to indicate the extent to which one thing is distant from another).
Orochi got defeated by Tatsumaki, who Saitama is far beyond. This is just an outright example of you failing to understand basic terminology and scaling. He got defeated by Tatsumaki who's far weaker than Saitama.
Because it's important? You as an administrator should know basic rules like this. Narrative of the story goes a long way, as it sets the example in a series. Orochi not knowing Saitama breaking his limiter is irrelevant, Saitama before breaking his limiter was 9-B at best or are you insinuating Orochi is 9-B as well? He got defeated by someone who hasn't even managed to break their limiter such as Tatsumaki so again, you've contradicted yourself with your own arguments.
It doesn't matter if they don't know, if anything that just points to their statements of "tearing him to shreds" being false due to them being overly arrogant in their power and capabilities. A personal belief without any backing isn't a reason for the character to scale, especially when they were defeated by someone who's weaker than Saitama by a significant amount.
Essentially what your saying is that we should scale Orochi to Saitama based upon a singular statement despite him getting defeated by someone's who far below the likes of Saitama? That makes no sense.
which again is irrelevant to what I'm saying here. You fail to understand that, Orochi has no business to scale to Saitama or even downscale to him based upon a statement made out of sheer arrogance. He was defeated by the likes of Tatsumaki, Saitama being a lot stronger than Tatsumaki even when holding back.
And Orochi is wrong in that regard. You literally just admitted to the very point that I'm arguing. I never once said that he didn't get stronger, I said that he isn't capable of beating Saitama. How did you get me saying he didn't get any stronger from me saying he doesn't scale to Saitama? You read what you wanted hence why we're at this misunderstanding. Next time take a bit more time to actually read my comment instead of reading what you want to read.
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And I'm not trying to scale PsykoOrochi (PO from now on, because that's getting tiresome to write) to Saitama, nor do any of my points indicate this.
I'm simply saying that Orochi so much more powerful that he believes he could win against opponents previously capable of one-shotting him.
Then why do you keep bringing up the Tatsumaki comparison?
I've made it clear that I'm not trying to scale them, nor do any of my conclusions even remotely give any reason to scale them, so let me make this as frank as possible: all Orochi knows is that Saitama is far stronger than himself (not exactly how much), and he believes that he can win upon being amped. Therefore, Orochi believes that he's a lot stronger.
Do you even understand the concept that Orochi doesn't know Saitama is far stronger than Tatsumaki, he only knows Saitama is much stronger than himself?
Narrative is completely irrelevant when characters outright cannot see the narrative to make judgement calls. I don't want to keep reiterating what my actual point is, but you keep misunderstanding it so completely.
Again, literally all I'm saying is that it means Orochi believes he's a lot stronger now. I'm not saying it's true that he can beat Saitama at full power. I'm saying that he thinks he's stronger.
No, I am not saying he should scale to Saitama. I will have none of these repeat misunderstandings of my points.
According to whom? You?
This entire post is just me saying "I'm not trying to scale him to Saitama." So, again, I am not saying he should scale to Saitama.
I'm not trying to scale him to Saitama.
Because I'm not arguing that Saitama scales.
I never said that he was. I'll outline my beliefs for the gazillionth time: Orochi believes he is now strong enough to beat someone who could nearly kill him previously. Saitama is far more powerful in every capacity, but what he used against Orochi was nowhere near his full strength or effort—even the level he used against Boros with a Serious Punch doesn't come close. So Orochi believes he can now defeat someone far more powerful than his previous self.
I didn't, I'm explaining the reasoning that you keep misunderstanding so completely.
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Vizer04
He/Him- 5,167
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lmao
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,167
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Sheesh.
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You can't give that to a profile that upscales to their tier.
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,167
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Also, IIRC, it only stood up for so long was because of the gravity sphere.
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So, have we decided on what the new tiers are going to be with the upscaling and all?
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We've mostly agreed that Tatsumaki is just Low 5-B, but there's a couple that still disagree.
Tbh, I don't see the problem. Tatsumaki is substantially stronger than someone who's vastly superior to Orochi. To put this into perspective, if PsykoOrochi is 15% stronger than normal Orochi and Tatsumaki is 14% stronger than PsykoOrochi (or vice-versa), Tatsumaki would surpass baseline.
The fusion is portrayed as a big amp (as I've shown above) even before she absorbed energy from the Earth, and Tatsumaki twisted her into modern art at full power.
Failing that, 'Likely Low 5-B' is more than reasonable.
Tbh, I don't see the problem. Tatsumaki is substantially stronger than someone who's vastly superior to Orochi. To put this into perspective, if PsykoOrochi is 15% stronger than normal Orochi and Tatsumaki is 14% stronger than PsykoOrochi (or vice-versa), Tatsumaki would surpass baseline.
The fusion is portrayed as a big amp (as I've shown above) even before she absorbed energy from the Earth, and Tatsumaki twisted her into modern art at full power.
Failing that, 'Likely Low 5-B' is more than reasonable.
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Agree with the upgrades
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