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SVTFOE Revisions thread

Bluethedragon233

Bluethedragon233

168
8
Tom -

1) the obvious line about the trash that can destroy the universe but also the better point from his rant is that residents of hell in SVTFOE have immortality (type 7)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H26WSAVntY

2) I think this is the reason he has Regenerationn but this is suposed to show that he has zombie like qualities also it should be noted he still has full control of disembodied body parts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpVVVtKZ9MA

3) He should have resistance to soul manip resist via having 999 demon souls and 1 human soul

4) it should also be noted his ability to summon hell in any dimension should give him universe + range considering he can travel dimensionally without sissors

General -

1) Therefir calc for river feat (decisions on on scaling and general quantizing SVTFOE)

2) Toffee should be 8-B at most physically. Delete his 5-B duraribility, give him Low-Godly regen and Corruption (type 3)

3) Glossaryck for 2-A. According to the guide book he was created by the multiverse to help itself quantify magic within itself and he created the entire magic high commsion. According to the episode mama star and the tavern at the end of the multiverse is most likley magic itself. basically though he should be at the top of the star tier list.

FINALE EDITS:

1) Marco can use the wand and after getting stabbed by the magic dimension unicorn can use magic up to atleast a low 2-C level EDIT: corrected to 2-A (his and stars spell merged a infinite multiverse into one universe). Also he gets a durabilty feat from being stabbed in the stomach but still fighting uneffected. EDIT: he still took damage the feat is that he was capable of fighting despite having a hole in his stomach w broken ribs

2) Tom can get dark magic horse as a tool EDIT: Possibly his 2-C form is mindcontrolled him

3) Tool for all star characters; magic pudding with mind manip resistance upto atleast a low 2-C level EDIT: also memory manip

4) Star, Moon and Eclipsa are 2-A with the whispering spell (though Eclipsa should already have 2-A via spell with no name)

5) glossyrk is confirmed magic god and the high commission is shown that there base parts to resserect them still existed after the magic was gone; there for glossryk should get immortality (type 8) (can't die unless the concept magic does) along with the rest of the counsel. The rest of MHC also immortality (type 4) if they die glossyrk could just create another. EDIT: Also add Abstract Existance (type 2)
 
Multiversal Star characters seems likelier given the finale as well, since Star (albeit with help, but divide the power up ewually amongst the individuals amd it's still a multiversal feat since I doubt there's less tham 50 universes in the multiverse as well as including the alternate timelines which are just parallel versions of the reality we're seeing with small differences as the same exact events go down of which Omnitraxus stated there to be an infinite amount of these).

And yes, Glossaryck seemingly died when all magic across the multiverse was destroyed and so did the MHC.
 
"Low 2-C Marco" sigh.

"1) escaped low 2-C grasp, kicked low 2-C in the face causing damage, and survived a fall from small mountain hieght

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyfc-BxbJks"

>You mean the immense inconsistency that he's never shown consistently again?


"2) He's taken hit's from 5-B toffee (who should be atleast 2-C see below)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg3smuWJsE0"

>Why do people not get that Toffee's 5-B feat is assuming he's superior to a dude that has 5-B via a magical spell? We don't even know if that's his striking strength. Especially since he was harmed by a far weaker spell of Star's. Let's also ignore the fact that it was a supremely casual hit from Toffee and Marco was nearly unconcious from it.


"3) Helps Hekapoo close portals; A 2-C wouldn't need help from a 8-B"

>Stop with this argument for christ sakes, like seriously this needs to stop. This isn't an argument. A 2-C can get help from an 8-B or whatever tier they want. The show is not thinking about vs debating nor does it care about it, not to mention the job that Hekapoo wants him to help her with is mostly because the enemy she at least thinks they're facing isn't 2-C since she tries to use a harpoon to take them down. This is like saying all koopas in Bowsers army are now High 4-C because he needs help from them to take over the mushroom kingdom, or that Ganondorf's moblins are now High 4-C because he needs help from them. Or Arceus getting 9-Bs and 6-Cs to help him, guess they're all of a sudden 2-B now too.

Like I almost want this to be an offiical rule, Marco being Low 2-C is so stupidly inconsistent and goes against the very nature of the show. It's a straight up inconsistency. Unless you want to give him Low 2-C via the Royal Magic Wand, he's not getting Low 2-C physically.

I hope you're still not trying to take that universal garbage statement seriously, I already brought this up in another threa,d we have no further context for that, for all we know, Tom uses a dimensional scissor, or uses his fire dimension to get out before the universe explodes, or that he can regenerate from it, there's too many scenarios here to give a definitive answer. The rest for Tom is fine.


"1) Remove 8-C SVTFOE; the star characters lowest feats that are actually arguable are 8-B"

>The 8-B feat's being contested cause it's a random assumption with no calc.


"2) Toffee should be atleast 2-C because he killed a fully developed queen. Because of glossyrck and the fact that every queen ends up on the magic councel they should be atleast 2-C. (Also Estrella the specific queen in question in the guide book was said to be able to and went dimesional travel before she even got a wand; she was particularly talented and a favorite of glossyrck)"

>They're only 2-C with magic, not 2-C physically. So Toffee killing her would not give him 2-C AP.


"3) Glossaryck for 2-A. According to the guide book he was created by the multiverse to help itself quantify magic within itself and he created the entire magic high commsion. According to the episode mama star and the tavern at the end of the multiverse is most likley magic itself. basically though he should be at the top of the star tier list."

>Show the scan. But I do agree with him being above everything in SVTFOE.


"4) Marco and Tom should have low 2-C keys"

>They most definitely should not unless you're adding the wand to Marco's profile.


FINALE EDITS:

"1) Marco can use the wand and after getting stabbed by the magic dimension unicorn can use magic up to atleast a low 2-C level (his and stars spell merged a infinite multiverse into one universe). Also he gets a durabilty feat from being stabbed in the stomach but still fighting uneffected."

>Ok firstly, if his and star's spell merged an inf multiverse into one universe, that would be 2-A. Secondly, when did it do this? What I gathered from it was that the destruction of Hekapoo and the rest of the magic high commission caused dimensions to no longer be scattered. (Which furthe rproves Omnitraxtus was indeed the embodiment of the inf multiverse as his death caused the entire multiverse to merge, but I'm not even touching that convo). Also the unicorn stabbing him did serious damage to him, idk where you got he was "unaffected" by it from.

"2) Tom can get dark magic horse as a tool" >He literally only has it for one episode and he was under mind control when he did.


"3) Tool for all star characters; magic pudding with mind manip resistance upto atleast a low 2-C level"

>It'd be both mind and memory manip resistance but again, why would this be apart of their standard arsenal?


"4) Star, Moon and Eclipsa are 2-B with the whispering spell (though Eclipsa should already have 2-B via spell with no name)"

>Why 2-B? Where are you getting 2-B from?


"5) glossyrk is confirmed magic god and the high commission is shown that there base parts to resserect them still existed after the magic was gone; there for glossryk should get immortality (type 8) (can't die unless the concept magic does) along with the rest of the counsel. The rest of MHC also immortality (type 4) if they die glossyrk could just create another."

>I believe I argued before for Abstract Existence Glossaryck in the past but yes I agree with this.


TL;DR

Disagree heavily with anything tier 2 for Marco or Tom unless it's the royal magic wand (which isn't even apart of Marco's standard arsenal).

Disagree with bumping all buildings to 8-B as there's currently a problem with the 8-B feat itself.

Disagree with putting Toffee at 2-C because the Queen's 2-C AP is via magic, and not physically.

Mostly everything else I agree with. Minus a couple of things I forgot to mention.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Multiversal Star characters seems likelier given the finale as well, since Star (albeit with help, but divide the power up ewually amongst the individuals amd it's still a multiversal feat since I doubt there's less tham 50 universes in the multiverse as well as including the alternate timelines which are just parallel versions of the reality we're seeing with small differences as the same exact events go down of which Omnitraxus stated there to be an infinite amount of these).
And yes, Glossaryck seemingly died when all magic across the multiverse was destroyed and so did the MHC.
Click to expand...
It's already been confirmed that there's infinite universes in SVTFOE Multiverse.
 
Arguements for tom and marco:

- marco and tom also have the phyiscal feat of fighting the dark magic unicorn which should be > mewberty stars magic. Also what I ment by uneffected was that he did a jump kick normally when he had a hole in is ribcage, not that he was actually undamaged

- marco isn't a mook hekapoo uses to fight for her (like the examples you gave); he helps her close rips in space

Counter arguements against myself:

- while they do get stronger over the course of the show there is no specific thing they did that would explain the increase in strength

Unanswered stuff in the show to think about tom:

If Tom summoning hell is magic, then he can never see his parents again at the end and possibly died off screen (though he doesn't act like it)

Toffee:

well he should still have 2-C dura from fighting, also there is 2-C defense magic (used by star and moon in mewberty mode, and eclipsa with the wand). (though we haven't seen Estrella actually use her magic so we don't know if she uses it, we can assume this is basic magic since all living queens have done it on screen and epesially considering Estrella is said to have had mewbrty control before the wand passing ceremony).

Notes (explainations/corrections):

- My idea since the series was over is to have tier 2 keys for SVTFOE being a character with all the tools they have ever used and magic still existing, and having there tier 8 keys be them physically (which probably means it actually does make more sense for 2-C marco to exist with magic, though tom is probablly tier 9 without magic)

- Whispering spell: Deleted magic which in svtfoe pours into the infinite multiverse. Applicationally this would be 2-B level BFR since doing this sends you back to your original universe and makes it impossible to travel to other dimesions (deletes space time)

- Spell with no name: is a spell said to destroy all existance (atleast 2-B from being able to destroy svtfoe inifinte multiverses). It is a butterfly that EE's all matter it touches and kills things even when only a small part of it touches somthing (death manip)

- EDIT: these spells description is actually 2-A but I'm lowballing cause I'm kinda curious why despite confrimed infinite universes for a while now characters are considered 2-C?

- Though that is a nice arguement of omni it was pretty clear it was there magic because there cheeks both glow and it animates the same way that it animated when star created her own magic in the wand. They also say they belong togther and narritively it was supposed to be poetic.

- Because of the way things ended it should also be noted toffees 2-C form is not magic but anti-magic

- I would like to show scans but I have troubles when I try and import a picture i never works >.>.
 
Marco with a low 2-C key. That's so much of a stretch it isnt even funny. I dont see it being a thing.

Plus theres probably gonna be a very detailed thread coming out soon now that the series is over.
 
I don't think River should scale to Marco. It's very clear that River is much stronger than Marco, and Mewman physiology should be greater than the human one, so maybe Marco should be 8-C, possibly High 8-C.
 
even if they are 1/2 the strength of river it's still high 8-C since river scales to 7.08 tons of tnt we could say the rest are at 3.54 tons of tnt? Also we did learn that mewmans are actually humans that glossyrk transported there at the beginning of time. Also I think adult marco is as strong physically as river if not stronger.
 
Sir Ovens said:
I don't think River should scale to Marco. It's very clear that River is much stronger than Marco, and Mewman physiology should be greater than the human one, so maybe Marco should be 8-C, possibly High 8-C.
Click to expand...
Didn't Marco suggest in a recent episode that Mewmans are just humans who travelled to Mewni through the Magic Dimension though? I don't think he has a different Physiology to a Human.
 
They spent years fighting monsters did they not? They're practially a warrior race compared to humans.
 
They used huge Armor sets and Magic to defeat the Monsters, while I could see them being Physically stronger than a normal Human given their environment, the show seems to imply they used better tactics, technology, and magic to conquer Mewni rather than brute strength.
 
marco can fight these monsters from the begining they should have the same strength scaling just that most earth characters in star vs aren't trained but marco beats up monsters episode 1 so he should get mewman dura and ap via training.
 
Proposed scaling from clac for casual strength:

Untrained mewman: 1/7th of of rivers strength (a regular mewman or possibly marco is about equivilent to 5% deku dura and ap at 1 ton of tnt) 8-C

Trained mewman: 1/2 river strength (3.54 tons of tnt probably stars, monsters, possibbly marco, tom, and mewny knights AP and Dura) High 8-C

River/Adult marco: the full 7.08 tons of tnt. Very high 8-C
 
Spinoirr said:
Yeah adult Marco should be high 8-C+ at least
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree that regular Marco should be "High 8-C, Possibly Higher" while River and Adult Marco should be "At Least High 8-C, Possibly Far Higher."

This is again based on the fact that River tanked that High 8-C+ impact casually, with no damage whatsoever from the actual impact. Meaning his TRUE durability could very well be far above High 8-C, but we have no feats to actually prove it. Thus the "possibly far higher" part.

A feat for Marco I was thinking about: What about that time when he used a jump-kick to knock over Meteora who had grown to the size of a building???? I believe it was in one of the two episodes "Divide" and "Conquer," i.e. the finale episodes of Season 3.
 
yea I think that feat is more aguable now that we have a calc to put him at high 8-C. In general I think the calc fixed alot of arguements for AP and Dura for star characters. Also I think @Therefir might be calcing meteora stuff but idek know if it's possible to calc her making the ground shake.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
... I could see "possibly Far Higher" for Marco & Tom ?
Click to expand...
No. 8-C to 8-B is where they reach their limit. Anything higher is a clear as day outlier. We don't give "possibly far higher" to verses like RWBY with 8-A feats for this exact reason.
 
Bluethedragon233 said:
Snip
Click to expand...
Again, that's a clear as day outlier as two episodes back he can't even break down boulders blocking his path, and he tries hitting through them. Not to mention once again it goes against the very nature of humans in the show to even remotely make Marco any higher then he already is.

Him not being a mook is irrelevant, my point was that your logic of "a 2-C wouldn't have an 8-B help them out" is contradicted by the existence of mooks. The pokemon weren't mooks for Arceus and helping her close rips in space once again has nothing to do with AP, she has him help her out because Marco is stupidly skilled. It's like arguing Batman being 4-B cause he's apart of the justice league. Basically Marco would be Hekapoo's Batman.

Except as shown at the end of the series all the worlds merged together.

Like you said, we haven't seen Estrella used it and the only time he's fighting Moon in mewberty is when he's already fused with the wand (which creates parallel timelines, but that's a story for another day). So there'd be no reason to assume she used 2-C shields.

Tom is tier 8 w/o magic for being stronger then Marco. The tier 8 physically tier 2 with magic thing I've already done, check literally any SVTFOE magic user profile that's not OP or Meteora (since she uses magic as a physical amp).

That'd be conceptual manipulation also.

Where is it stated to destroy all of existence?

Characters were considered 2-C because they don't believe omnitraxtus is 2-A and from that there's no other statement of destruction of the infintie multiverse other then Meteora stating she'd make the multiverse shiver.

Show the scan for that, cause it looks more like it happened due to omnitraxus' death.
 
Goodyfresh said:
This is again based on the fact that River tanked that High 8-C+ impact casually, with no damage whatsoever from the actual impact. Meaning his TRUE durability could very well be far above High 8-C, but we have no feats to actually prove it. Thus the "possibly far higher" part.

A feat for Marco I was thinking about: What about that time when he used a jump-kick to knock over Meteora who had grown to the size of a building???? I believe it was in one of the two episodes "Divide" and "Conquer," i.e. the finale episodes of Season 3.
Click to expand...
Tanking the impact casually with no damage would just be High 8-C, that's not how "possibly far higher" works. He should just be left as High 8-C as all of River's feats even the non-casual ones never go above tier 8.

Meteora is 2-C. That's a huge outlier.
 
Sir Ovens said:
I don't think River should scale to Marco. It's very clear that River is much stronger than Marco, and Mewman physiology should be greater than the human one, so maybe Marco should be 8-C, possibly High 8-C.
Click to expand...
When is it remotely implied River is stronger then Marco?
 
1) I'm crossing off 2-C marco because of the calc unless we are talking about marco with magic

2) Him kicking meteora just knocked her over I think it could be considered a High 8-C feat because of her large size, with that being said metora should have a different magical and physical rank (physically ??? (need to calc her shaking the earth, her falling into hell and burning, general sizes when growing), magically 2-C)

3) Both Star and Eclipsa also used defense megic when fighting meteora and Eclipsa used it against Mina. It's probabale she used it against toffee (who killed her).

4) River should be physically stronger than 14/15 yr. old marco. We attribuute his dura and AP to him being a buff mewman and marco scales from being physically stronger than star but marco is still human so I don't think kid him should be as durable as river

5) I think It might be better to scale magic high commssion based that glossyrk is 2-A, also the Spell with no name was said to be able to destroy the infinite universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oka_WFFNxM

6) Star and marco cast the final spell

https://youtu.be/MT5ojPHj1YY?t=241

Other Ideas

- Disambiguous page for mewmans

- Disambiguous page for monsters
 
  • Another thought: toffee scales to 5-B physically via being stronger than helios and zedlord who can destroy entire planets. @goodyfresh instead of putting likley higher we could put mewmans at 5-B with armor and weapons (mewny knights are capable of fighting armored lizardmen).
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Tanking the impact casually with no damage would just be High 8-C, that's not how "possibly far higher" works. He should just be left as High 8-C as all of River's feats even the non-casual ones never go above tier 8.

Meteora is 2-C. That's a huge outlier.
Click to expand...
Okay, that first point is valid.

He didn't actually hurt Meteora at all, he simply knocked her over because he caught her off guard. Thus I think it can be seen as a non-outlier feat, but rather than scaling to Meteora's durability (which is Tier 2), it should simply scale to her size, since he knocked her over but didn't actually damage her at all, and clearly wouldn't have even been able to do so if he didn't catch her off-guard due to her underestimating him. And her size was that of a fairly big building. Thus making Marco's feat of knocking her over seem to be building-tier, although of course a calc would be required to figure out Meteora's size and mass to figure that out for sure.

@Bluethedragon233: We don't know if other Lizardmen are at the same level as Toffee. So saying Mewmen are 5-B by scaling to Lizardmen (actually called Septarians, btw) seems like a bit of a stretch. Based on what we saw of Rasticore, other Septarians are probably far weaker than Toffee. . . .Toffee may have actually been some kind of mutant of his race.
 
or if the concept of magic is destroyed. Also isn't it possible to argue river can fight with helios? he casually won't talk to him because he's always crashing parties and the first thing he does when theres no more food is try to absorb the whole planet.

I thought of a meteroa feat: when she comes back from hell it's not actually just coming back from underground she's ripping out of a dimension
 
Bluethedragon233 said:
or if the concept of magic is destroyed. Also isn't it possible to argue river can fight with helios? he casually won't talk to him because he's always crashing parties and the first thing he does when theres no more food is try to absorb the whole planet.
I thought of a meteroa feat: when she comes back from hell it's not actually just coming back from underground she's ripping out of a dimension
Click to expand...
We have no evidence that River can fight Helios, just because he hates the guy and won't talk to him doesn't mean he can fight him.
 
It's pretty hard not to talk to someone when they absorb the entire planet XD but I guess he could just teleport off if it happened before.
 
OK so on the topic of toffee scaling to 5B from being stronger than helios: why is he scaled this way? it makes it inconsistant because star can blow his arm off and marco can punch a hole through him. Also when he killed comet butterfly (been saying the wrong name lol) he was only a general in there army. It doesn't make sense to have a huge jump where a regular septarian to have high 8-C and then toffee be 5B? Also I can't find the referance that says toffee is stronger than helios and zedlord?
 
Bluethedragon233 said:
OK so on the topic of toffee scaling to 5B from being stronger than helios: why is he scaled this way? it makes it inconsistant because star can blow his arm off and marco can punch a hole through him. Also when he killed comet butterfly (been saying the wrong name lol) he was only a general in there army. It doesn't make sense to have a huge jump where a regular septarian to have high 8-C and then toffee be 5B? Also I can't find the referance that says toffee is stronger than helios and zedlord?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I always thought that Toffee's 5-B rating seemed a bit iffy, being honest here. The only real reasoning seems to be that pre-magic-realm Toffee is considered a "bigger threat" by the MHC and the Mewni Royal Family than the likes of Zedlord and Helios, and the latter two are most definitely Tier 5-B. But honestly, does he really have to be a higher TIER than them in order to be a bigger THREAT than them? I don't see why that even necessarily would be the case. He could just as eaisly be considered a bigger threat due to the fact that he is harder to kill thanks to his Regenerationn, rather than due to being on the same tier as such characters.
 
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