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Superboy-Prime Upgrades - Also Spoilers Probably
- Thread starter Tots_Real
- Start date
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I thought it was because he got the P O W A S of Doctor Manhatten?
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I mean last time we heard anything about Godhead Darkseid he was still gathering up his shards from being broken in Final Crisis and we haven't been given any implication so far that he's back at full power.
That Darkseid being Low 1-C is dubious at best at the moment.
He only got some of his powers. And Doctor Manhattan is rated as Low 1-C, possibly 1-A anyway. So a flat out Low 1-C due to direct scaling to him would still not be good.
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He definitely should, but currently he's just "At least Low 1-C, possibly 1-A".
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BatKek scales to a weakened Perpetua tho this is very explicit.
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It just that because, actually I don’t know why. DM just being 1-A is perfectly fine.
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As I understand it the Darkseid of the Dark Multiverse essentially merged with Superman before said Superman shattered his essence via screaming at him. Essentially meaning he remained fully intact after the fact and presumably kept all his power. This is just to my recollection mind you so I'd have to reread that part to verify if this is true or not.
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Scaling to weakened Perpetua is fine, but why would she be Low 1-C at her weakened form?
Her only feats when weakened is destroying universes.
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... BatKek destroyed Hypertime with his mere existence and their fight shook the Sphere of the Gods and was "Felt on every level of existence".
Also he consumed the Speed Force.
Like yeah Perpetua has that very direct, very baffling, very low-end feat where she blows up a universe and exhausts all her power but it's an outlier.
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Is all of that Low 1-C or 1-A? I'm not in the up and up on the specifics so apologies if it's a redundant question.
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Problem is out of all of those. Only the Shaking of the Sphere of the Gods could be interpreted as a Low 1-C feat, not a very solid one though.
The Speed Force and Hyptertime are treated as 2-A on the wiki last time I checked.
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Perpetua begins charging her remaining power as she prepares to destroy the universe. She now prepares to fire it out. See what happens next time on Death Metal Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oliver_de_jesus
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hypertime can also be 5D or well I think
The feat is considered Low 1-C, as Hordak and Skeletor were both said to be able to recreate and destroy all of reality. Skeletor, however, knew the Multiverse was at least 5-dimensional, as he references Hypertime, which in this context, at least means a dimension above regular space-time. from Castle Grayskull's profile
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I mean, the profile is wrong based on current wiki standards then.
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Hypertime is Low 1-C.
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I mean, I don't disagree. But it isn't on the wiki.
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itistho
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Can at least show where that was discussed?
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It's death metal.
You will STILL be confused after reading it
You will STILL be confused after reading it
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Dark Nights: Death Metal. Specifically, Dark Nights: Death Metal The Secret Origin is where SBP defeating TDK comes from.
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It's been a while, but I'm gonna wait till the event is over so we don't gloss over anything. In any case, Rebirth Superboy-Prime is getting a higher Tier Key.
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As far as I understand, Perpetua and her children are only tier Low 1-C when descended into the DC multiverse, which is what scales to Doctor Manhatten and TBWL, and per extension Superboy Prime.
I personally think that the 1-A statistic outside of the DC multiverse is very exaggerated, but this is not the right time to argue about it.
I personally think that the 1-A statistic outside of the DC multiverse is very exaggerated, but this is not the right time to argue about it.
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Low 1-C is fine for her. Despite being exhausted after destroying one universe, Perpetua has good feats that support the Low 1-C rating like defeating the Ultra-Monitor, Broke Hypertime after the Doom War, Fought Wonder Woman powered by Dr Manhattan's energy, Fought the Darkest Knight on a clash that could have collapsed the Multiverse and was said to be a hundred times more powerful than Barbatos. Being exhausted after destroying one universe should be considered as poor stamina as she scale above beings who can destroyed multiple universes, but that's my opinion.
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Going off everything that's been shown I've come to the conclusion that Low 1-C is likely more reasonable
Scaling off Godhead Darkseid, The Monitors, Hypertime, etc
The only thing that made me questioned whether or not 1-A was viable was Perpetua and Manhattan scaling, however, if both of those are only questionably 1-A at this point then Low 1-C seems more likely.
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I agree.
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That was my point though. There isn't any direct feat that would put them at Low 1-C, besides the Sphere of the Gods thing, but using that as a solid rating is very dodgy. And if they're scaled to Doctor Manhattan, then they should be "At least Low 1-C, possibly 1-A", because that's his tier, not just out right Low 1-C.
The only thing I can find, is that currently Hypertime is treated as 2-A on the wiki, there haven't been any upgrade threads to my knowledge that would put it higher, unless Matt is willing to provide where that was accepted. If such thing exists, the Low 1-C rating would be properly defined.
From what I could tell, the reason they were upgraded to was scaling to Manhattan, which as I said before, wouldn't give them outright just Low 1-C rating.
Except none of those feats are Low 1-C. Ultra-Monitor is 2-A, Hypertime is 2-A (unless Matt has a thread where it's been upgraded), Barbatos is 2-A, Darkest Night is circular scaling here.
And, again, scaling to Manhattan would give her Low 1-C, possibly 1-A, not to mention the Wonder Woman that fought Perpetua with Manhattan's powers was full power Perpatua, not the weakened one. She got weakened because she fought with Wonder Woman's Manhattan amped power.
Not really. Scaling to Godhead Darkseid, as I said before, is a no go. Not to mention why would they even scale to Darkseid in the first place? They never fight Darkseid, and the few appearances he does show, he's never acting like his scared or under the control or whatever by BWL.
Monitors and Hypertime are 2-A.
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Barbatos has Low 1-C feat with Anti-Music. I'll wait until the Hypertime revision on whether it is Low 1-C or 2-A. We don't know if full power Perpetua is really 1-A or not. I think Low 1-C is fine for Perpetua.
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That's supporting evidence at best. We don't scale characters who stated to be stronger than another character to their "super special attack" that has it's own tier and is not comparable to them at all.
How is Low 1-C fine for Perpetua? No one has been able to give a solid reasoning so far.
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Just going in circles now. I already addressed that multiple times. Crisis Energy doesn't have a tier and all Crises so far have been 2-A threats. And for the 100th time, scaling to Manhattan would give them At least Low 1-C, possibly 1-A, not At least Low 1-C.
Not to mention Darkest Night is only powered by a portion of his power, not all of it.
Not to mention Darkest Night is only powered by a portion of his power, not all of it.
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Darkseid and Monitor scaling comes from an earlier issue where SBP managed to free the JL from their control. At least, as I recall. People placed Super-Darkseid at Godhead level since the idea between his backstory is that he merged with the Superman of his world during the Dark Multiverse version of Final Crisis before said version could shatter his essence. Thereby remaining perfectly intact. Again tho, this is only to my recollection and would have to reread to properly verify.
@Matthew_Schroeder can you verify whether any of the above is accurate?
In any respect I agree that we probably need to choose a more solid tier for Manhattan and Perpetua and decide what tier Hypertime should be
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You have a point. Maybe it is best to create another about Perpetua, Monitor Brothers and Dr Manhattan tier in order to choose a tier that would be fine for all of them.
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Even at face value, there's a lot of problems with that. Darkseid coming on Earth was impossible for him be present there in his Low 1-C form, that's why he needed a to come in as an avatar. Him merging with Superman only goes that that's his probably his tier 2 version there not the Low 1-C one, because presumably there wouldn't a universe for him to rule over because it'd be destroyed by his existence. There's also the fact that he himself says that his' just a perception of the main Superman and that he's come into existence a "few months ago", but from his point of view has been ruling for millennia. There's also other minor things going against this, like Darkseid aging, and him not actually looking like that in his Godhead form, as we already seen his Godhead form and it's an abstract head thing.
But the biggest thing for this is if he is Low 1-C, then we're actively acknowledging Low 1-C Dark Multiverse, which would retroactively make all the Monitors Low 1-C as well, by virtue of the World Forger.
On top of that, again, why would Darkest Knight scale to him in the first place? As I said, there's never any implication that he's stronger than him or anything.
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I would also appreciate some help with the scaling here. As I mentioned, I think that 1-A is extremely exaggerated for Perpetua and her children, and even currently we do not consider them as such within the multiverse. As PrinceOfTheMorning told me before he left, our DC Comics scaling is completely messed up for the cosmic entities, and I think that our only viable way out of it long term is to separate scaling between the conflicting versions of the cosmology between different writers.
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Will address tomorrow
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Personally, i don't think so but i'll wait for others knowledgeable members arguments. I'm not even sure about the 1-A rating anymore.
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