(Super) Spirit Bomb = EE

[Axxtentacle]

Planck took the words right out of my mouth.

But genuinely, this isn’t getting accepted just because there’s a single usage of the word erase, especially when there’s other statements that say things like he got destroyed past a cellular level and such. That’s not really enough to qualify as existence erasure. If you can bring MORE proof to the table, then go ahead. But till you do, this isn’t going to go anywhere productive.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Remember when existence erasure atomized people instead of just erasing them? Yeah me too.

The "erase" is extremely obviously flowery language in this case. The visual with it literally shows him being atomized, not erased from existence.

 

[Vietthai96]

1. Neither will using filler.
2. It erases the opponent. I've already explained this within the post.
3. Because he has limited resistance. It's not as complicated as you're trying to make it.
4. Different because it erases the opponent.

Maybe you should come up with a decent argument.

1. Still not prove anything, using Kienzan to prove that not every Ki technique is different isn't doing anything
2. Bad counter-argument, my initial point was everyone with massive amount of AP could destroy their opponent to cellcular and atomic, no need to EE, you still haven't debunk this yet. Try more
3. Prove he could resist EE, first he tank Spirit Bomb with his hand, then throw it back, and then Goku power up and push back the same Spirit Bomb, he tank it gain but this time Goku power up more, Buu got destroyed. How do you explain that how he just have resistance to EE and then lost it.
4. Still can't prove it it is different.

Planck took the words right out of my mouth.

But genuinely, this isn’t getting accepted just because there’s a single usage of the word erase, especially when there’s other statements that say things like he got destroyed past a cellular level and such. That’s not really enough to qualify as existence erasure. If you can bring MORE proof to the table, then go ahead. But till you do, this isn’t going to go anywhere productive.

The problem it not just the use of the word "erase", but also the feat itself. A hax like EE will bypass normal durability regardless of the gap between user and the enemy, but the feat we clearly saw that Buu could tank it with his hand, and Goku need to power up and increase Spirit Bomb power to overwhelm Buu. It is clear evident of Spirit Bomb being tied to Goku power level or AP, a hax can't being tanked by durability and don't depend on user AP

 

[Axxtentacle]

You see, the problem here is that you’re making a bunch of assumptions like a limited resistance to EE. You still need to back up the original claim and the assumptions you’re making afterwards with more proof.

The rest of what you’re saying COULD work, but you have to prove it.

 

[BOEGVELD]

1. Still not prove anything, using Kienzan to prove that not every Ki technique is different isn't doing anything
2. Bad counter-argument, my initial point was everyone with massive amount of AP could destroy their opponent to cellcular and atomic, no need to EE, you still haven't debunk this yet. Try more
3. Prove he could resist EE, first he tank Spirit Bomb with his hand, then throw it back, and then Goku power up and push back the same Spirit Bomb, he tank it gain but this time Goku power up more, Buu got destroyed. How do you explain that how he just have resistance to EE and then lost it.
4. Still can't prove it it is different.

1. Kienzan is shown to work different than a regular ki blast. It's not complicated. You have yet to show any evidence that all ki attacks work the same due to being made up out of ki.
2. Which is, again, irrelevant, because this attack is specifically stated to erase Buu.
3. You've already proven it for me. He resisted a Spirit Bomb with the ability to erase its opponent.
4. I already have.

 

[BOEGVELD]

You see, the problem here is that you’re making a bunch of assumptions like a limited resistance to EE. You still need to back up the original claim and the assumptions you’re making afterwards with more proof.

The rest of what you’re saying COULD work, but you have to prove it.

How do you call it when someone resists an attack with the ability to erase its opponent? That's not an assumption I'm making.

 

[Axxtentacle]

How do you call it when someone resists an attack with the ability to erase its opponent? That's not an assumption I'm making.

But it doesn’t erase its opponent, it atomizes them. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the statement about erasing isn’t flowery language, because we don’t see Buu getting erased, we see him getting atomized. That alone contradicts your point. You can claim he resists it, but then you’d need a separate piece of evidence to prove he actually resists existence erasure.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Unless we take SSJ3 Goku and Vegeto's word for it? And even then is bypassing Buu's regen enough to say he was atomized or is there a regen level in between Buu regenning from smoke (I assume we can use that?) and atomization (molecularization comes to mind since lone molecules also qualify for High regen)?

Goku, Vegito, Gotenks, and Gohan were all capable of destroying Buu outright with their ki attacks.

 

[Vietthai96]

1. Kienzan is shown to work different than a regular ki blast. It's not complicated. You have yet to show any evidence that all ki attacks work the same due to being made up out of ki.
2. Which is, again, irrelevant, because this attack is specifically stated to erase Buu.
3. You've already proven it for me. He resisted a Spirit Bomb with the ability to erase its opponent.
4. I already have.

1. Still Kienzan, nothing more, and i don't need because the show blatantly prove it that all ki work the same, unless it is specific Ki like the Dark Ki belong to Dragon Ball Heroes Demon, and Energy of Destruction belong to DBS God of Destruction
2. Still not prove anything, you need to prove that it work on that level,
3. He don't resist it, he tank it with his durability, you are the one need to prove he resist EE, and prove Spirit Bomb is EE itself, and EE let me tell you EE CAN'T BE TANKED BY DURABILITY
4. Burden of proof is on you

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Are even EE shenanigans even tangible and interactable let alone tankable??

 

[Vietthai96]

Are even EE shenanigans even tangible and interactable let alone tankable??

Well we have Energy of Destruction, but again it is specific type of Ki with EE properties come with it, also it is the Ki that have actual feat of EE

 

[Thelastmlg]

Some EE attacks can be tanked or touched, but it is usually those that need to overcome AP or just act weird as hell

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

So a rarity.....

 

[Axxtentacle]

So a rarity you would need a decent bit of evidence to prove, rather than assuming off of 1 vague statement that could go both ways very easily.

 

[BOEGVELD]

But it doesn’t erase its opponent, it atomizes them. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the statement about erasing isn’t flowery language, because we don’t see Buu getting erased, we see him getting atomized. That alone contradicts your point. You can claim he resists it, but then you’d need a separate piece of evidence to prove he actually resists existence erasure.

There's no objective way to show something getting erased [in fiction].

Flowery language is an elaborate way of speaking. I'm curious to know how you'd come to the conclusion that ''the greatest and strongest Genki-Dama erases Buu'' would fall under this.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Yeah, but there IS a very common way of showing someone getting atomized, at least in DB. That's a pretty easy non-argument. And we know what DB's existence erasure looks like already, we've seen Hakai in action plenty of times. But, Buu died in the same visual way Cell did.

Because it says "Erase", but shows us him getting atomized. You also completely ignored my point about you needing other proof of him resisting EE as supporting evidence for this.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

There is no proof for the spirit bomb being different enough from other ki attacks to have a different type of destruction. If it were actually EE then the hakai would be similar to the spirit bomb and they would've said something about it.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Goku can also pull energy from inanimate objects, the atmosphere and potentially the sun to form the spirit bomb, all of which don't even have ki/life-force, unless you're saying everything in DB has ki.

....that's literally it. That's what the term Genki means (Genki literally means Health, Energy , Vigor) and it's stated everything has it. That's why donating Genki tires beings out.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Yeah, but there IS a very common way of showing someone getting atomized, at least in DB. That's a pretty easy non-argument. And we know what DB's existence erasure looks like already, we've seen Hakai in action plenty of times. But, Buu died in the same visual way Cell did.

Because it says "Erase", but shows us him getting atomized. You also completely ignored my point about you needing other proof of him resisting EE as supporting evidence for this.

The Super Spirit Bomb and Hakai don't have to look the same in order for both to be EE. These arguments do not refute my original point.

Again, there is no objective way to show someone getting erased. ''It shows us him getting atomized'' is an assumption but is contradicted by official sources.
Elaborate on your second point.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Simple, Buu soul still exist, EE mean you erase them from existence, but Buu soul still exist mean he is not completely erased.

EE is only considered physical unless they also mention the soul

So erasing just the physical body of something is still considered EE

 

[Axxtentacle]

It's not an assumption, I already posted the statement where it says erase, but it literally shows him being atomized in the same way Cell was when he got defeated, meaning it was more flowery language than anything. The visuals only work for your point under the assumption that he resists existence erasure, but you need more proof for that. You can't give an explanation that's based on an assumption without supporting evidence. You also can't use the scan for your initial point as the proof of your assumption, that leads to circular logic.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

i can't wait for all of dragon ball to get existence erasure

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

i can't wait for all of dragon ball to get existence erasure

Videl hakais 9-Bs lol

 

[Vietthai96]

And everyone will get EE resistance and bypass EE resistance cause they constantly resist and bypass the resistance just by powering up.

And i think if this continue to go further, standard regarding EE could possibly being changed in the future

 

[Rez]

On topic of existence erasure super manga Goku should have it because he can use hakai I have made an crt regarding it so you guys might as well check that out

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Again, there is no objective way to show someone getting erased. ''It shows us him getting atomized'' is an assumption but is contradicted by official sources.

The Daizenshuu 2 refers to both Cell and Buu as being "annihilated". Along with that, they were destroyed in the same way, gradually vanishing into nothingness with each panel. Does this mean that the Father-Son Kamehameha is a special variant of the Kamehameha with existence erasing properties? I mean, it's the same level of destruction, as I have proven.

 

[BOEGVELD]

The Daizenshuu 2 refers to both Cell and Buu as being "annihilated". Along with that, they were destroyed in the same way, gradually vanishing into nothingness with each panel. Does this mean that the Father-Son Kamehameha is a special variant of the Kamehameha with existence erasing properties? I mean, it's the same level of destruction, as I have proven.

Both being said to be ''annihilated'' does not mean they were destroyed on the same level. Comparing Buu's situation to others' where the villain was not said to be erased does nothing for your argument. It's fine to disagree, but at least come up with a decent argument.

It's not an assumption, I already posted the statement where it says erase, but it literally shows him being atomized in the same way Cell was when he got defeated, meaning it was more flowery language than anything. The visuals only work for your point under the assumption that he resists existence erasure, but you need more proof for that. You can't give an explanation that's based on an assumption without supporting evidence. You also can't use the scan for your initial point as the proof of your assumption, that leads to circular logic.

Except, again, there's no objective way to show a character getting erased. Saying he was ''shown to be atomized'' is a headcanon, which is, again, contradicted by official sources. ''But Buu & Cell were shown to be killed in a similar way, therefore both attacks must work the same!'' is fallacious logic.

I'm not making any assumption:

• Buu was stated to be erased by the Super Genki-Dama.
• Buu was shown to resist being erased by this attack for a short while.l

I'm merely coming to a basic conclusion based on the evidence from the manga and guide. Elaborate how this is ''circular logic''.

 

[Vietthai96]

Someone should lock this

 

[Rez]

Definitely someone should lock this it's going no where

 

[Damage3245]

I think there has been enough of a consensus that this has been rejected.

EDIT: I will close the thread.