(Super) Spirit Bomb = EE

[Planck69]

This isn't EE and the spirit doesn't do anything special to evil characters.

All tho I do think we should mention DB characters can atomize with Ki attacks

It really doesn't. I haven't laughed as hard as I did when I saw someone actually argue for conceptual SB via killing "pure evil" in a while.

I think they're already treated as such in some capacity. At least, when they have a major power advantage over an opponent.

 

[Vietthai96]

All tho I do think we should mention DB characters can atomize with Ki attacks

Actually no, everyone with just massive amount of AP advantage could atomize their opponent

 

[DivineAura44]

Um and? Doesn't prove he can't, In fact he is still able to since he can use the spirit bomb.

My point is you are using something from a show ago to justify pure-hearted Goku. Also I never see it say you need a pure heart. I hear it's better so that way you don't get it backfired to you (like Goku) but never that you need to be pure-hearted to do so.

 

[XDragnoir]

Don't we give EE to characters with massive heat feats? Yamamoto from Bleach and Stella from Rakudai, pretty sure they have it for erasing someone's physical existence completely via heat.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Don't we give EE to characters with massive heat feats? Yamamoto from Bleach and Stella from Rakudai, pretty sure they have it for erasing someone's physical existence completely via heat.

Idk about Rakudai, but Yamamoto's is just straight up said to be hot enough to erase stuff from existence.

 

[Planck69]

I dont think the mechanic is that relevant if the end result is explicit existence erasure anyway.

 

[VinnyXD]

Actually no, everyone with just massive amount of AP advantage could atomize their opponent

What happens if they are close. Because Vegito and SSJ3 Goku said they could finish Buu.

 

[Vietthai96]

What happens if they are close. Because Vegito and SSJ3 Goku said they could finish Buu.

Vegito have massive amount of AP advantage, he bodied Buuhan who massively stronger than Kid Buu. I dunno about SSJ3 Goku, cause he only said that in the manga, and we don't actually have feat

 

[VinnyXD]

Vegito have massive amount of AP advantage, he bodied Buuhan who massively stronger than Kid Buu. I dunno about SSJ3 Goku, cause he only said that in the manga, and we don't actually have feat

How stronger do you have to be from someone to atomize them?

 

[Vietthai96]

How stronger do you have to be from someone to atomize them?

it is varies, i don't know a solid gauge though

 

[Qawsedf234]

What happens if they are close. Because Vegito and SSJ3 Goku said they could finish Buu.

Ki attacks seemingly have to be dialed for their opponent to go to that level. At least that's what I got with Gotenks, since he had the power to kill Super Buu but didn't properly control his energy to be precise enough to do so.

So like most things DB related its ki control.

It's why Goku's surprise kamehameha also didn't kill Cell, as it wasn't dialed to be that precise.

 

[DivineAura44]

Vegito have massive amount of AP advantage, he bodied Buuhan who massively stronger than Kid Buu. I dunno about SSJ3 Goku, cause he only said that in the manga, and we don't actually have feat

I'd say Kid Buu beats Buuhan.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Vegito have massive amount of AP advantage, he bodied Buuhan who massively stronger than Kid Buu. I dunno about SSJ3 Goku, cause he only said that in the manga, and we don't actually have feat

SSJ3 goku said that he could kill kid buu if he powered up to full power in SSJ3, he also said that he could've finished off buu when he was fat. He was also confident in SSJ3 gotenks to beat buu as well as gohan. All those characters lacked the spirit bomb too.

 

[DivineAura44]

I don't even get how y'all think this is an argument tbh. Literally like every villain was confident then got bodied.

 

[DivineAura44]

This can be easily explained by lack of knowledge.

 

[XDragnoir]

I dont think the mechanic is that relevant if the end result is explicit existence erasure anyway.

Well, this should give Matter destruction (atomic) at least, just like what was accepted for Nelo Angelo in DMC.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This clearly isn’t Existence Erasure but I think it can be Matter Manipulation or Deconstruction

 

[KingOFG]

Vegeta and Freeza with EE resistance since the beginning of the manga then? Laughing a lot

 

[Rez]

This clearly isn’t Existence Erasure but I think it can be Matter Manipulation or Deconstruction

It's not this isn't the first time spirit bomb has been used it's simply a huge ap difference

 

[CR_Catinho]

It's not this isn't the first time spirit bomb has been used it's simply a huge ap difference

huge AP difference does not grant the ability to ''atomize'' your opponent , it should be noted that ki in general can destroy on a cellular level and that the spirit bomb specifically does that on an atomic lvl

 

[VinnyXD]

huge AP difference does not grant the ability to ''atomize'' your opponent , it should be noted that ki in general can destroy on a cellular level and that the spirit bomb specifically does that on an atomic lvl

Bruh i was told it could

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

You know you need to explain why it's different right?

And no source says the ki is different.
Source 1 "Gathered from the power of all of the people on the earth"
Source 6 "Collected from the Ki of all humanity"

So unless regular people's Ki has EE, this should've been declined a while ago

GoD human beings?

 

[DivineAura44]

Vegeta and Freeza with EE resistance since the beginning of the manga then? Laughing a lot

This isn't a new argument.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Actually it does, there is a reason atomizing rocks and humans give AP, same on cellula level, is just not common them doing it with small AP differences like cell vs gohan.

 

[VinnyXD]

Actually it does, there is a reason atomizing rocks and humans give AP, same on cellula level, is just not common them doing it with small AP differences like cell vs gohan.

Or Trunks vs Frieza. That's why i ask how much AP you need to atomize because it looks like Dragon Ball characters can do it with a close AP

 

[Axxtentacle]

Having a massive AP difference does allow you to atomize people. Same goes for Ki.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The Guidebook literally says that Trunks Atomized Frieza.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The Guidebook literally says that Trunks Atomized Frieza.

Ah yes, atomized. Must be rather large atoms.

For the text in question the Daizenshuu says this

Special Characteristics: As long as all of his cells aren’t wiped out, he is capable of reviving from tiny pieces of flesh, or even smoke. He loves candy, is simply-minded, short-tempered, and enjoys killing people.

And this

Regeneration
First Appearance: Chapter 189
Category: ability
People: Piccolo, Neil, Cell, Majin Buu (good), Majin Buu (evil), Majin Buu (pure)
Special Characteristics: A technique that regenerates one’s own body. It’s the special ability of the Namekians. As long as their head remains, they have the ability to regenerate from any condition. Cell inherited this ability, and could always regenerate as long as the nucleus in his head remained. In contrast to this, Majin Buu could always completely restore himself, even if he just a single piece of flesh remained, just so long as he wasn’t totally annihilated. For Cell, each time he regenerated, he bragged about having Piccolo’s cells inside him. (Daizenshuu 2, p.183/Daizenshuu 4, p.49, p.62)
Anime: In “Super Saiya-jin Son Goku”, Piccolo restores his ears, which he ripped off himself. Gohan is impressed, saying “Just as you’d expect”. (Daizenshuu 6, p.70)

The feat can be accomplished without wiping Buu out of existence and such a small attack would already have made him invisible like with Cell's death, so I don't see why we should give Goku EE.

 

[Vietthai96]

The main problem i already said before. If the attack is truly EE, it will bypass normal durability, what was that mean, it mean that if Goku or any other have EE, he doesn't need to power up himself above his enemy cause EE will bypass their durability regardless the gap between Goku power and his enemy, unless said enemy have resistant to EE.
I'm not denied Ki blast could atomize enemy, the problem is it is tied to user AP, it can only atomized opponent if the user AP or the attack AP is massively above opponent's durability, and a hax can't be blocked by durability, that not how VS work and dont bring the statement of that how Dragon Ball work, it make no sense, even i'm a massive fan of Dragon Ball this kind of claim is NLF, so we could stop this topic here and lock this.
The only thing we could add is i think give more information on Dragon Ball Ki Manip about Ki blast could atomized opponent (which bypass Mid-High to High regen) if it is massively stronger than opponent durability or something like that.

 

[VinnyXD]

The only thing we could add is i think give more information on Dragon Ball Ki Manip about Ki blast could atomized opponent (which bypass Mid-High to High regen) if it is massively stronger than opponent durability or something like that.

I agree with this.

 

[Greenshifter]

Ki blast could atomized opponent (which bypass Mid-High to High regen)

The spirit bomb is clearly no regular ki blast. I've seen no proof that DB characters would be able to atomize someone before other people from other verses with a similar AP advantage would be able to do so. Unless we take SSJ3 Goku and Vegeto's word for it? And even then is bypassing Buu's regen enough to say he was atomized or is there a regen level in between Buu regenning from smoke (I assume we can use that?) and atomization (molecularization comes to mind since lone molecules also qualify for High regen)?

 

[VinnyXD]

What makes the Spirit Bomb special? Especially when comes to destroying beings.

Trunks has the only special one

 

[Planck69]

Nothing makes it special. It's just regular Ki.

 

[Greenshifter]

It can be bounced back by people with a pure heart and super saiyan Goku initially couldn't even use the technique due to him having a hint of evil inside of him, meaning it can make a distinction between good and evil, something a regular ki blast can't. Also @Garchomp777 didn't you have proof that it targets the evil inside of people?

"Remember that the Spirit Bomb is a martial arts discipline that allows you to borrow energy from grass and trees, from people and animals, from inanimate objects and the atmosphere... And then to concentrate them and release them. If you can draw so much destructive power from a ball made on this small planet... ...Imagine what you can do with a Spirit Bomb formed on Earth! If you can also learn to tap into the astounding powers of the Sun... Well. Just be careful. Or you may destroy the very planet you're trying to protect!"

Goku can also pull energy from inanimate objects, the atmosphere and potentially the sun to form the spirit bomb, all of which don't even have ki/life-force, unless you're saying everything in DB has ki.

 

[VinnyXD]

It can be bounced back by people with a pure heart and super saiyan Goku initially couldn't even use the technique due to him having a hint of evil inside of him, meaning it can make a distinction between good and evil, something a regular ki blast can't. Also @Garchomp777 didn't you have proof that it targets the evil inside of people?

"Remember that the Spirit Bomb is a martial arts discipline that allows you to borrow energy from grass and trees, from people and animals, from inanimate objects and the atmosphere... And then to concentrate them and release them. If you can draw so much destructive power from a ball made on this small planet... ...Imagine what you can do with a Spirit Bomb formed on Earth! If you can also learn to tap into the astounding powers of the Sun... Well. Just be careful. Or you may destroy the very planet you're trying to protect!"

Goku can also pull energy from inanimate objects, the atmosphere and potentially the sun to form the spirit bomb, all of which don't even have ki/life-force, unless you're saying everything in DB has ki.

Kid Buu was able to push back. It's also a debate on Krillin as well

Also nothing you mention gives it special destruction properties

 

[BOEGVELD]

1. Baseless assumption, Ki attack is Ki attack, and to point out your flaw, Kienzan got tanked by Perfect Cell, that mean it still being tied by power level of user. And if a skill being tied by their AP, they are not Hax
2. No, anyone with massive amount of AP advantage, not just DB could destroy their opponent beyond cellular, atomic level
3. Yes his body was erased, by what, he tank it before Goku got back his power and powering up, that mean Spirit Bomb still being tied by user power level and if a skill being tied by their AP, they are not Hax.
4 Just different name, with bigger size, AP and have more mount of Ki. or Vegeta Big Bang Attack will have universal AP, using figurative, flowery word will not get you anywhere

1. Filler and irrelevant to my point. Assuming every ki attack somehow works the same is the baseless assumption here.
2. Ok? That's not what happened here. (That should still be noted though.)
3. So we agree; his body was erased.
4. You asked for proof that this was a different version of the technique, so I provided it. I don't really care for denial.

Quote where it says erased from the universe

You know what erase means, right? "Remove all traces of.'' If you erase someone while in the universe, then you erase them from the universe by default. Erase doesn't have a complicated definition. You're not actually making a point here.

 

[Vietthai96]

1. Filler and irrelevant to my point. Assuming every ki attack somehow works the same is the baseless assumption here.
2. Ok? That's not what happened here. (That should still be noted though.)
3. So we agree; his body was erased.
4. You asked for proof that this was a different version of the technique, so I provided it. I don't really care for denial.


You know what erase means, right? "Remove all traces of.'' If you erase someone while in the universe, then you erase them from the universe by default. Erase doesn't have a complicated definition. You're not actually making a point here.

1. Using the word filler will not prove anything,
2. Ok, then care to explain the mechanic then??????
3. You only focus on the word erased, still not debunk the later point of why Buu could tank it with his bare hand
4. How much different???? still the same technique, just bigger size and AP, nothing more, that no proof

Until you read all my point and debunk it, your argument are worthless

 

[Rez]

The only thing we could add is i think give more information on Dragon Ball Ki Manip about Ki blast could atomized opponent (which bypass Mid-High to High regen) if it is massively stronger than opponent durability or something like that.

I agree with this

 

[BOEGVELD]

1. Using the word filler will not prove anything,
2. Ok, then care to explain the mechanic then??????
3. You only focus on the word erased, still not debunk the later point of why Buu could tank it with his bare hand
4. How much different???? still the same technique, just bigger size and AP, nothing more, that no proof

Until you read all my point and debunk it, your argument are worthless

1. Neither will using filler.
2. It erases the opponent. I've already explained this within the post.
3. Because he has limited resistance. It's not as complicated as you're trying to make it.
4. Different because it erases the opponent.

Maybe you should come up with a decent argument.

 

[Planck69]

This entire argument hinges on the one use of the word "erase", which multiple people have explained isn't enough.

Honestly, I already know this won't be accepted so I'm just unfollowing.