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Super Sonic 4-A Return Continued

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No one agrees with Tier 4 base Sonic. Anyway, I still stand that there's not enough evidence for anyone to be 4-A. Not even Metal Overlord as he's never even stated to be stronger than FEB. "Strongest Robot" =/= Strongest creation, and there's literally no Tier 4 durability feats. Eclipse Cannon and FEB are both implied to be tools that one shot everything and that hasn't been contradicted.
 
Eggman would built the machines that fought Super Sonic with weapons as strong as the FEB.

The Final Hazard was shoting lasers from the Cannon, Shadow even says that it's using the emeralds.

The fact that Eggman thought that only the emeralds could beat Overlord means that the FEB couldn't beat him

Any user of the seven emeralds is stronger than the Eclipse Cannon with all emeralds because the power of the emeralds is enriched by the heart, cannons don't have hearts
 
Despite Ultimate Emerl taking energy, from FEB, all you people do is call every fear which goes against your thinking outliers no offense, just providing some criticism, here
 
Emerl never absorbed the entire energy of the FEB, he only reacted to it. Just because normal humans stand in broad daylight doesn't make them 4-C. If he absorbed anything, all he absorbed was just a little bit of radiation. And even that radiation made him go berserk and eventually caused him to die. That's the exact opposite of scaling.

And no one scales from the Final Egg Blaster, period.
 
The super forms as well as the machines that fought Super Sonic as well as Ultimate Gemerl and Overlord do scale to it

Repeating yourself without arguments doesn't make it true, there's no reason that those robots that fought Super Sonic would be weaker than the FEB, any user of the seven emeralds would be stronger than the Eclipse Cannon because they have hearts unlike the Cannon

Also the FEB never killed Emerl, it was Gerald's progaming who did it
 
There's every reason for Metal Overlord or Ultimate Emerl to be weaker than FEB because they were never compared to it and lack any feats even close to it. We rate characters based on actual feats and/or demonstrations, not based on baseless assumptions and special treatment. No one ever tanked FEB, and the only reason FEB was never used against Metal Overlord was because Eggman no longer had it. And even if he did, if he actually used it, he would have destroyed the planet and a whole lot more, and even himself. Comparing Metal Overlord to FEB is like comparing Russia's greatest Aircrafts to the Tsar Bomba.

Emerl was destroyed because he overloaded and wasn't even close to being powerful enough to contain even a tiny fragment of the FEB's power. You're also being repetitive with the arguments, and none of the staff members have accepted scaling FEB to every single one of those end game mechs.
 
Not really, they were compared to it because Eggman thought that the only thing that could have beatten them was the emeralds, if he could just built a weapon stronger than them he would have done it, it requires way more assumptions that Eggman can built weapons stronger than Super Sonic or Overlord or Ultimate Gemerl and has never used them.

The compassions aren't valid as I already explained, the tsar bomb is built to be the strongest unlike a aircraft, Eggman's mechs and the FEB were both built to be the strongest, also in real life we can only acheive that power with nuclear weapons because of chemical reactions, so that's why we don't use them in the airships, meanwhile the FEB isn't a special weapon that can only reach that power with a special reaction, the only diference is that Eggman used it on the stars instead of Super Sonic, as far as we know the FEB was built the same way with the same materials as the other machines, unlike nuclear bombs who only reach that power with chemical reaction, a better comparassion is the FEB being the cannon of the ship while the mechs are the ships themselfs.

I am not trying to scale Emerl to the FEB, but he died because of Geralds progam who is activated once he absorves to much power.

To be fair most of the staff hasn't give any reasons or gave their full opinion except you
 
Actually, Cal has addressed the issue numerous times and is pretty much tired of it. And Matt did say 100% that there's no reason to compare anything to FEB. DMB also gave legit input about 4-A being inconsistent too. And even some of the other Sonic supporters said they fell 4-A is iffy. We already gave reason why Eggman being able to produce a 4-A weapon without any sort of Chaos Emeralds is an outlier. A whole bunch of characters have more consistent showings of Tier 4 to Tier 2 and/or actually did show direct scaling indications but those didn't get passed as outliers. So it would be a massive double standard to give Sonic Special treatment to one 4-A weapon that's literally never been used on anyone before.

I will have to go to work soon again.
 
You agree with everything that keeps Sonic at a lower tier

Eggman has chipped into 2-C robots. I doubt building a 4-A thing is that much of an outlier. Not to mention we have several inventors who's creations are scaled to their strongest invention with sufficent preperation time. Examples include Rick Sanchez, Phineas Flyn and to a lesser extent Lex Luthor and Tony Stark.
 
Those characters are only that strong with very specific inventions that they are regularly able to build from scratch, and not every invention is as strong as their strongest reality warping technologies. 4-A Metal Overlord is literally the same thing has Tier 2 Technodrome.
 
"Regularly able to build from scratch"

Like how the second character I mentioned only built one singular 3-C invention? Eggman built the Final Egg Blaster in a few weeks at most and it's level of power is integral to the plot of Sonic Battle.
 
Actually the other supporters did agree with 4-A but kepping 5-A as a low end, Cal was more neutral but hasn't really commented much, DMB agreed with 4-A because the emeralds for him should have the powers in all tiers that they varie, it shouldn't be only two tiers of power acourding to him because they varie, here's what they said:

'If you guys really want 5-A to remain the lowest of Emerald's power, then I don't even think 4-A should be listed, as VAriable Tier would already imply that there's a mid-end between 5-A and 2-C.

If the Emeralds can really "make someone as strong as they need", then it's nonsensical to assume that they can make him only either Tier 5 or Tier 2'.

I already explained why it isn't a outlier, Eggman already building 5-A weapons is above what he normaly does, at least 4-A is scaling from a feat that a machine of him did than backwards scaling from a feat weaker than Super Sonic by a very large margin, if those machines were weaker than it than it doesn't make sense for Eggman not to use that power on Sonic.

4-A can't be a outlier for Sonic when four tier 2 feats exist.

I feel we need more imput from other people like Dark here so that it won't be just me and DDM arguing forever

Edit: Asked Dark for his opinion, now we wait
 
Sonic Battle was released before Heroes, and in the latter game Eggman had doubt that everything he knew at his disposal including the emeralds could match Metal Overlord, who needed more than one Super State to defeat. This was before he built tier 2 machines like the Eggwizard or knew about Solaris/Time Eater, also Eggman was likely aware that he cannot access anymore the stuff related in Sonic Shuffle like the Imaginary World/Illumina.

So, at least 5-A, possibly 4-A for most Super Forms to 2-C for those that fought tier 2 beings should be fine.
 
Though there is a problem despite the release date, which is Shadow. In Adventure 2 he falled on earth where he was recovered by Eggman. He was found in Heroes by Rouge and then the events of the game happened, in Battle Shadow doesn't seem to have amnesia and Rouge says to him it's been while since we fought together.
 
At the end of Heroes Shadow didn't really care for his amenisia:https://youtu.be/zYkyUT0ZTIg

But Battle has to be after Heroes which is a problem, though there's Ultimate Gemerl that Eggman only used the emeralds to beat him and not his machines, and Advance 3 takes place after Battle

As well as the machines that fought Super Sonic should be as strong as the FEB

Also the FEB isn't a special invention, in Heroes Eggman acts as if no invention that he could built could beat Overlord even though he built machines that fought Super Sonic
 
I'd agree begrudgingly with a possibly. Not even a likely. A possibly. As you can tell, I really don't like scaling people to items that nobody interacts with.
 
Oh and btw, this would just be the case for the Super forms. Not Dark Gaia, not Metal Overlord, not Mother Wisp. They're all 5-A, no question. Just the Super forms would get the possibly.
 
Possibly could be fine, however Overlord took many attacks from the three Super Characters and was intact, Super Tails even said: is he invincible?.
 
So if acepted this should be the description:" Possibly 4-A: Super Sonic defeated both Ultimate Gemerl and Metal Overlord who Eggman thought that only the emeralds could beat them even though he built weapons like the FEB which can destroy a cluster of stars
 
Overlord and Ultimate Gemerl should have possibily as well Cal, togheter with Perfect Dark Gaia Cal, even DDM agreed to that
 
The real cal howard said:
Oh and btw, this would just be the case for the Super forms. Not Dark Gaia, not Metal Overlord, not Mother Wisp. They're all 5-A, no question. Just the Super forms would get the possibly.
Click to expand...
100% agree with this notion.
 
Gemerl was powered by all 7 so I guess. Overlord is still no. I'm not agreeing with that because it implies that yes, there are things that can be made that equal or surpass the Chaos Emeralds, so Eggman making the FEB as a superior superweapon isn't out of the question.

So either you have me for Emerald boosted only or nothing at all.
 
They were 4-A originally because Eggman built the 4-A weapon specifically to get the emeralds which maxinum potential should be above all previous stuff, and Eggman did not saw/built any Tier 2 being/machines at the time he built the FEG. Eggman did not saw Illumina in Shuffle if i recall.
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
Probably just thematic dialogue to make Metal Overlord seem more intense and scary
Click to expand...
Not really, Tails, Knuckles and Eggman all thought that beating him was super hard and he can only be hurt with a Team Blast.

Anyways the characters that shoud get possibily should be the super forms, Overlord, Ultimate Gemerl and Perfect Dark Gaia, even DDM agreed to this if it was acepted
 
The real cal howard said:
Gemerl was powered by all 7 so I guess. Overlord is still no. I'm not agreeing with that because it implies that yes, there are things that can be made that equal or surpass the Chaos Emeralds, so Eggman making the FEB as a superior superweapon isn't out of the question.
So either you have me for Emerald boosted only or nothing at all.
Click to expand...
Eggman implies that Overlord is superior to all his machines, and Overlord is not a normal machine, he transformed via copying everyones data as well as Chaos energy, he even says "Chaos copyed" at the end of Team Rose's story so he's using chaos energy like Gemerl. Neo Metal is a machine built by Eggman normaly, Overlord is a result of Metal copying everyones data as well as Chaos

So him, Gemerl and Dark Gaia should scale
 
Chaos wasn't Perfect Chaos so that doesn't count. If Eggman can inadvertently create something on the scale of the Chaos Emeralds, as Metal Sonic was originally created as a planet level threat, who's to say that Eggman can't prep something on purpose well above that via building a superweapon on a super-fortress? Eggman's silly but he's still a supergenius. Something that's planned from him should be superior to something that's unplanned.
 
Dark649 said:
They were 4-A originally because Eggman built the 4-A weapon specifically to get the emeralds which maxinum potential should be above all previous stuff, and Eggman did not saw/built any Tier 2 being/machines at the time he built the FEG. Eggman did not saw Illumina in Shuffle if i recall.
Click to expand...
Specifically, Eggman was after the Precioustone after he learned of its powers.
 
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