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Sonic fights with Sonic (Smash VS Paramount) [2-2-0]

I've seen all 3 films and I don't see why they would be enough to outmaneuver an already acrobatic version of Sonic with countless mobillity options
They are futile compared to Paramounts.
If anything, I think Smash's rolls, air dodges
Said iframes only last a split second. Not really relevant here.
experience fighting skilled fighters
That's really the only thing Smash got going for him and even then, Paramount is not too far behind.
He should be able to use it in the same way his canon counterpart does, albeit with far fewer benefits and a minuscule time limit.
Doesn't really supremely help Smash's case here but noted.
 
That's really the only thing Smash got going for him and even then, Paramount is not too far behind.
He kind of is though. His only real fighting experience at this point in the story is:

1: Running away from a flying mech for a while, getting blown up by it, getting up via the power of friendship, speed amp himself, and banish it into another dimension

2: His fight against Knuckles, who is skilled, but also a bit slower than Sonic, and has shown to let his temper and arrogance override his skill in some instances.

Meanwhile, Smash's fight against Tabuu proves he can defeat opponents with massive AoE attacks that one shot him if he fails to dodge them with his rolls and air dodges you previously downplayed, and his fights in World Of Light, among other things, not only have him take on fighters more skilled than Knuckles, but also other Sonics. In other words, Paramount Sonic really isn't too different from what he's faced before whereas the other way around isn't true.
 
Meanwhile, Smash's fight against Tabuu proves he can defeat opponents with massive AoE attacks that one shot him if he fails to dodge them with his rolls and air dodges you previously downplayed
Basically the same junk that paramount faced in the first movie.
Yes, smash sonic can spam his dodge/rolls however they still
1. Only last a split second.
2. Leave him vulnerable afterward.
3. Punish him for trying to spam it.
So he can do that, however the more he does it, the more he'll just punish himself.
 
They are? I've seen all 3 films and I don't see why they would be enough to outmaneuver an already acrobatic version of Sonic with countless mobillity options. If anything, I think Smash's rolls, air dodges, and experience fighting skilled fighters including other Sonics should make HIM able to dodge anything (not accounting counting speed amps), especially since his profile considers those techniques to be intangibillity.
Basically every character in Smash Bros is featless in terms of skill. So beating other people who are vaguely skilled isn't that impressive compared to at least having statements like Knuckles being trained in every martial art or whatever, with Sonic being able to evade his attacks in close quarters for an extended period of time.

That said, yes, I find Paramount Sonic's acrobatics generally more impressive comparatively.

Also, Sonic having experience fighting someone with his own kit plus more (Shadow) should make fighting a comparatively featless version of himself a cakewalk. Shadow has Sonic's speed, strength, agility, skill, and Chaos Control shenanigans like teleportation on top of that (In addition to the plasma gun that was practically shown to be useless against Sonic). His style of fighting just seems overall more fluid, impressive, and effective compared to Smash Sonic.
 
Also, Sonic having experience fighting someone with his own kit plus more (Shadow) should make fighting a comparatively featless version of himself a cakewalk.
He doesn't have that experience... This is his Sonic 2 key we're using, and he got bodied by Shadow on their first encounter because Shadow was more skilled and had better mobillity options, exactly like Smash Sonic here (except instant teleportation is admittidly better than double jumps, temporary intangibillity, and self momentum).

Nevermind. I misread and will adjust my arguement accordingly if this keeps going.

Knuckles may be trained in all forms of lethal combat, but nothing indicates he mastered any of them. His race got wiped out when he was still a kid, so how much trainning could he have really recieved? And like I said previously, his skill can be overshadowed by his own temper and arrogance. When Sonic was styling on him, Knuckles was visibly tilted, so he most likely wasn't optimizing his skill to the fullest at that point in time.
Is the physiology of Smash Sonic being taken into account? What prevents him from making a perfect block against Paramount Sonic or becoming invulnerable by dodging?
I've been accounting for it from the start. Nothing prevents him from doing either of those aside from his opponent's speed blitzing amp, as I said in my previous comments.
Both "good frames" only last for a split second.
"A split second" is all you need to dodge an attack. That's the whole point of it.

Now, I'm just wondering: Where are we even taking this debate? If Paramount Sonic can just amp himself and speed-blitz at will for however long he pleases, then he just kind of wins, but is that really the end of it? When we can't even add the match to the profiles as a result?
 
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Now, I'm just wondering: Where are we even taking this debate? If Paramount Sonic can just amp himself and speed-blitz at will for however long he pleases, then he just kind of wins, but is that really the end of it? When we can't even add the match to the profiles as a result?
I thought the main arguments were Paramount Sonic's heat attacks overwhelming Smash Sonic, but if there's nothing he can do (besides using Super Sonic) with speed, then the match just won't be able to get up to speed, although a result can still be achieved.
 
He doesn't have that experience... This is his Sonic 2 key we're using
Ah, I instinctively assumed 3 was being used.
he got bodied by Shadow on their first encounter because Shadow was more skilled and had better mobillity options, exactly like Smash Sonic here (except instant teleportation is admittidly better than double jumps, temporary intangibillity, and self momentum).
He kept up the entire time until the clean punch at the end when the two clashed. That said after having encountered him a few time he did significantly better and overwhelmed Super Shadow in combat. You also admit Shadow's mobility is better than Smash Sonic's stuff. Smash Sonic has more mobility options, Paramount Sonic has better mobility as evidenced by my links in the previous post.
Knuckles may be trained in all forms of lethal combat, but nothing indicates he mastered any of them. His race got wiped out when he was still a kid, so how much trainning could he have really recieved?
Mastered or not, that's more skill statements than what 99% of Smash Bros has. Knowing a martial art > being a "fighter" which is vague. Anyone can fight, but not everyone can do it well. Not to mention Knuckles himself has impressive mobility and speed (The gliding which is borderline flying and climbing he can do). Also I'm not sure if we know who he even received it from. It could've been self-taught.
And like I said previously, his skill can be overshadowed by his own temper and arrogance. When Sonic was styling on him, Knuckles was visibly tilted, so he most likely wasn't optimizing his skill to the fullest at that point in time.
Is there a statement in regard to his temper making him fight worse, or is that an assumption? The default assumption shouldn't be that anger causes you to suddenly lose all muscle memory and years of experience and training because you're a bit annoyed.
 
If Smash Sonic is supposed to already be giving Paramount Sonic difficulty without items, I'm unsure if granting items is wise.
Add the type of equipment Smash Sonic receives. It's not really a big difference since most of it, like the Skill Tree and the Chaos Emeralds, was already assumed, so only the food that grants 5 seconds of invulnerability and the stickers were added.
 
I just noticed OP was edited. Remind me to cast a new verdict on this if I don't do so in the next 24 hours. Also, shouldn't the amount of food Smash has access to be specified? Not that it matters if Paramount can still just one shot him with heat.
 
I just noticed OP was edited. Remind me to cast a new verdict on this if I don't do so in the next 24 hours. Also, shouldn't the amount of food Smash has access to be specified? Not that it matters if Paramount can still just one shot him with heat.
It wasn't specified, but Smash Sonic should have access to fully recover
 
It wasn't specified, but Smash Sonic should have access to fully recover
We also know that the more food he eats, the stronger, faster, and tougher he gets, thanks to the skill tree. Combine that with the other amps granted by it, and he should likely have more than enough to make up for Paramount's 1.6x AP advantage. Other benefits granted by the skill tree include a 2nd Final Smash he can use immediately after the first one, a tougher shield, and more frames to pull of perfect shields and succesful dodges. Every advantage I previously brought up for him is now doubled in efficiency. If he lives long enough to pull off two consecutive final smashes, he should win unless Paramount Sonic runs away from Super Sonic instead of engaging with him.

What does he even gain from stickers though?
food that grants 5 seconds of invulnerability and the stickers were added.
Where does this 5 second invulnerabillity come from? I don't see it on his profile or his phisiology's profile.
 
What does he even gain from stickers though?

Where does this 5 second invulnerabillity come from? I don't see it on his profile or his phisiology's profile.
Invulnerability is mentioned in the Equipment tab, and Stickers have their own tab
 
The invulnerability should withstand that. The question is whether Smash Sonic can defeat Paramount Sonic before his invulnerability period ends.
Would he start the fight with his 5 second invulnerabillity? Would his FS meter need to be filled or can he just use it since he already has the Chaos Emeralds?
 
Would he start the fight with his 5 second invulnerabillity? Would his FS meter need to be filled or can he just use it since he already has the Chaos Emeralds?
He could use it from the start if needed
 
He could use it from the start if needed
Then a fight between Sonic and Super Sonic is basically inevitable here. Paramount needs to survive two consecutive final smashes, and in order to do so, he needs to keep his distance from Super Sonic instead of taking him head on. Thanks to his own experience in a Super form, he knows how much of a threat they pose, but what he doesn't know is that this one has a time limit, and running away from a fight seems out of character. I'm at a loss here. I genuinely don't know how this would go down.
 
Then a fight between Sonic and Super Sonic is basically inevitable here. Paramount needs to survive two consecutive final smashes, and in order to do so, he needs to keep his distance from Super Sonic instead of taking him head on. Thanks to his own experience in a Super form, he knows how much of a threat they pose, but what he doesn't know is that this one has a time limit, and running away from a fight seems out of character. I'm at a loss here. I genuinely don't know how this would go down.
Well, at least from my perspective, Smash has a good chance of winning, but in hindsight, both have a wincon. Although I think I'm leaning more towards Smash.
 
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