(Super Simple) Lethal Company Downgrade

[ShockingPsychic]

Ghost Girl uses an outdated calc for skull crushing, the accepted value is 9-C

Not only that, the feat is wrong. She doesn't even crush skulls, she just rends the player's neck from their body! She can scale to decapitation, but not skull crushing

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Seems fine

 

[Keeweed]

It’s late for me tonight, but are we this isn’t just straight durability negation. Other enemies have animations for killing you. The ghost just skips into you and your head instantly flies off. Similar for the coil head too, it lacks arms or a way to attack you, and your neck is suddenly replaced by a coil they don’t have on them. I’m pretty sure both these enemies just kill your supernaturally rather than physically killing you.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

It’s late for me tonight, but are we this isn’t just straight durability negation. Other enemies have animations for killing you. The ghost just skips into you and your head instantly flies off.

I think it's safe to assume it's some kind of weird supernatural telekinesis or other power, given the girl is the only explicitly paranormal/ghost-like thing in the game. We don't really get to see how she does it, as you said it lacks an animation, but the most literal interpretation is that she just rips your head off, be it physically or with some kinda telekinesis

Would still be 9-C though

 

[Keeweed]

I assume the lack of animation would be more a point towards durability negation. Literally every other enemy has an animation, one specifically revolving around attacking your neck. She’s never shown telekinesis as far as I remember.

 

[King_Dom470]

That’s on me. I remembered Lee had a wall level Calc for crushing skulls and decided to use that due to how she pulverized the skull.

But I was apparently totally wrong in that she doesn’t even crush the skull. I agree tho

 

[King_Dom470]

I assume the lack of animation would be more a point towards durability negation. Literally every other enemy has an animation, one specifically revolving around attacking your neck. She’s never shown telekinesis as far as I remember.

I don’t think coil head does either I think it just smashes it’s body against you

 

[Keeweed]

Your neck is literally replace by a coil, one that they didn’t have on them. And you arms suddenly explode. There is no way they just smack you.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

That’s on me. I remembered Lee had a wall level Calc for crushing skulls and decided to use that due to how she pulverized the skull.

No prob, going forward though, stick to the official common calc page. The blog you link to is old and outdated, it assumes the skull to be a large cube of bone with no hollowness iirc

 

[King_Dom470]

Your neck is literally replace by a coil, one that they didn’t have on them. And you arms suddenly explode. There is no way they just smack you.

Summoning maybe? Or transmutation

 

[Keeweed]

That’s my point, the coil heads just instant kill you in a way that ignores durability, don’t know why it would be strange for the ghost girl when she just skips into you and isn’t shown doing anything else. Literally every other enemy has an animation, so it can’t be an animation thing.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call it a dura negating move without more evidence, seems she just kills you by ripping your head off through supernatural means (or just lacks an animation). I don't think she should be assumed to be capable of doing to same to like, a 9-B or higher character

 

[King_Dom470]

That’s my point, the coil heads just instant kill you in a way that ignores durability, don’t know why it would be strange for the ghost girl when she just skips into you and isn’t shown doing anything else. Literally every other enemy has an animation, so it can’t be an animation thing.

Idk if that’s necessarily dura neg it could just be tk.

Coil head could probably be dura neg via transmutation or something. Ghost girl probably needs more debate

 

[Keeweed]

Again, every other enemy has an animation for their kills. A multitude revolving around the neck and head. The thumper crushes your head, bracken snaps your neck, and the coil head replaces it with a coil that blast it off. The ghost can’t be an animation mistake, every other enemy has a clear and deliberate one.

 

[King_Dom470]

Again, every other enemy has an animation for their kills. A multitude revolving around the neck and head. The thumper crushes your head, bracken snaps your neck, and the coil head replaces it with a coil that blast it off. The ghost can’t be an animation mistake, every other enemy has a clear and deliberate one.

I think its more due to the fact that most people can't actually see the animation due to it being invisible to most people. Especially considering its an indie game

 

[Keeweed]

You would see it though, you can see all three the animations I listed as the dying player. The thumper in particular is super hard to see from others. Plus you can see the ghost girl in cameras. Finally, “it’s an indie game”, an indie game that animated literally every other monster (including the nigh instant coil head), which was my point. She’s specifically is designed to just skip into you and have your head spontaneously come off, that actually the fear factor from her. An invisible killer than can spontaneously explode you, that’s absolutely the point.

 

[King_Dom470]

Still don't get why that would need to be dura neg and not just TK or some other invisible attack

 

[Keeweed]

Because she doesn’t do anything towards you other than just skip and there is nothing suggesting tk in particular. She never shows tk anywhere else. Like any other ghost girl causing someone to spontaneously die would be counted as just straight death and nobody bats an eye. I find it weird this ghost girl in particular is assumed to be doing a tk attack when she just skips into you, isn’t shown particularly attacking you, and has literally nothing suggestion tk. Especially when a fellow monster with a similar attack absolutely ignores durability. At least I think it’s possibly (I would say more possible than tk, but there is no reason for tk to be more than 50% likely).

 

[Keeweed]

So, how I would write her profile:

Possibly Telekinesis or durability negation (Can spontaneously cause people’s heads to explode off, but it is never clarified how)

Unknown, possibly Street level with Telekinesis (Can decapitate crew members through unknown means).

I think that pretty well covers both bases.

 

[Abstractions]

Your neck is literally replace by a coil, one that they didn’t have on them. And you arms suddenly explode. There is no way they just smack you.

Coil-head doesn't instantly kill you, it's just really fast at doing so. It's likely slamming something into you as a means of killing you though. Wouldn't be a durability negation of any kind.

 

[Keeweed]

When it comes to that, I feel like that’s a bug, it takes away 99% of your health in a few frames. The other instant death enemies have limbs or obvious areas to put a kill box, the coil head requires the player to be able to touch it when you are looking at it. Plus that doesn’t explain the coil part at all. They don’t have hands to have that on them, and the animation shows that’s what pops your head off. At least I would see that as they like to beat the crap out of you before exploding you, but the spring part makes absolutely zero sense if they are just smacking into you (even assuming they somehow have a spring, how would they replace you neck with it, they still lack arms).

 

[King_Dom470]

(even assuming they somehow have a spring, how would they replace you neck with it, they still lack arms).

Headbutt?

Realistically I still kinda like the idea of transmutation

 

[Keeweed]

I’ll look tomorrow but I’m pretty sure there is a statement about them dragging across floors like a solid hard objects. Calling into question how much movability even their heads would have. (Though I’m tired and busy, so really next part is all I care about).

But it really doesn’t matter for the bigger issue of coil heads don’t have anywhere to store or hold the coils that spontaneously replace your neck in the kill animation. Especially since your neck is already replaced by the time your head starts to pop off.

 

[Keeweed]

Unfortunately I really got to go, it’s super duper late now and this thread was a lot more active than I thought it was going to be. Ghost girl I can understand the vagueness of, but I feel like acknowledging the vagueness on the profile would be best (like I wrote in my mock up for the profile earlier, no reason to hard assume tk when she’s never shown it, and it can’t be physical all the other enemies have clear cut animations for that). For the coil head I literally can’t see how it wouldn’t be transmutation. So much about the spring would need to be assumed and make no sense without the coil head supernaturally doing that. Since they lack arms, storage, and time to grab a spring and swap your neck out with it.

 

[Abstractions]

When it comes to that, I feel like that’s a bug

We can chalk things up to bugs, but I think it's very intentional that it isn't an instant kill, otherwise it just do that like the Bracken does, or the Eyeless dog does, or the Jester does. It taking almost all of your health but not all of it is something the spider even does, both put you into critical rather easily.

I'd also rather not worry about the practicality of how it does what it does, because transforming your head into a coil wouldn't exactly explain why it also removes your hands. Call it ridiculous, but do we then refer to that as limited EE of hands because it lacks the assumed means to do so?

Especially since your neck is already replaced by the time your head starts to pop off.

Well, yes. It's the idea that it is really fast after all.

 

[Keeweed]

It’s not super duper extremely fast though, it only moves like a dozen feet a second or so, it’s super low subsonic at best (and that distance I feel is generous, you can partially run from it for a bit, just barely).

“I'd also rather not worry about the practicality of how it does what it does”

It’s not even practicality, it literally impossible for it. Why would we just dismiss the fact that it literally has no way to physically do it, it lacks the coil and arms to hold that coil. Occam’s razor, why assume it just has a coil it doesn’t have, does a bunch of complex physics moves that would require hands it doesn’t have, and that it goes and somehow grabs a coil from a location it could never get to a single frame; versus just assuming the death animation takes priority over how you die and it just replaces your neck supernaturally. It’s not about practicality, it’s the fact there is no physical way it can do it.

The arms exploding can also be from the force of the spring shoot out from your body, or that could be the true physical part of its attack. But while the arms are vague, the overall main part of the death is the decapitation and the coil head very clearly lacks the mechanism to do that. If it physical had a coil, the creator would have given him arms and had one hold a coil. There is an enemy (hoarding bug) designed entirely around grabbing and hold objects. And the other enemies have animations for grabbing the player. This game has a really good eye for details, so I don’t see why we should just assume the coil head is the most nonsensical, poorly animated thing ever, when there is a straight to the point explanation.

 

[King_Dom470]

If its just a matter of super speed maybe we could scale it to the Bracken? I already did a calc on them that gets them to subsonic

 

[Keeweed]

It won’t be calculable, since we would have no clue where the coil would be, but it would be far enough away to completely contradict their other speed feats and any logical way they could do it physically. They only travel a handful or so feet in a second, there’s no way they could go off and come back with a coil in a single frame. Especially when that isn’t implied at all, they are actively chasing you at every other point before they get to you (like it’s specific that they don’t automatically know where you are like the jester, they look for you and give chase upon finding you).

 

[King_Dom470]

It won’t be calculable, since we would have no clue where the coil would be, but it would be far enough away to completely contradict their other speed feats and any logical way they could do it physically. They only travel a handful or so feet in a second, there’s no way they could go off and come back with a coil in a single frame. Especially when that isn’t implied at all, they are actively chasing you at every other point before they get to you (like it’s specific that they don’t automatically know where you are like the jester, they look for you and give chase upon finding you).

Could just be an example of game mechanics. Although I do kind of hate using that as a way to brush off stuff like this plus its so much cooler to imagine it can just turn your head into a coil

 

[Keeweed]

There’s a difference between a mechanic in order for a game to run smoother and to work for a game; and a monster just not being given any way possibly to actually preform the kill through physical methods. It just not having a coil, a lack of speed to grab a coil, nor even having arms to grab it and use it to begin with all point to it not doing that physically. Especially when the neck is already replaced by the time your head is popping off.

 

[King_Dom470]

There’s a difference between a mechanic in order for a game to run smoother and to work for a game; and a monster just not being given any way possibly to actually preform the kill through physical methods. It just not having a coil, a lack of speed to grab a coil, nor even having arms to grab it and use it to begin with all point to it not doing that physically. Especially when the neck is already replaced by the time your head is popping off.

Yeah fair enough. I was making a blog for the Coil-Head and I added a "possibly transmutation" since theres no confirmed answer as to how it does it but the arguments for transmutation seem sound enough

 

[Abstractions]

The arms exploding can also be from the force of the spring shoot out from your body, or that could be the true physical part of its attack.

Why would that specifically make your arms pop off? That wouldn't make any sense.

 

[Keeweed]

That part is extra vague. However, that still doesn’t really matter for the main part of the kill, which is your neck being replaced with a coil.

The coil part being physical would still make much less sense though. I can’t see why it would be assumable as a physical thing. However, I don’t see why we couldn’t just compromise with:

Likely transmutation (Can replace people’s necks with coils)

Street level (or higher depending on how the falling feats work out) (Can explode crew members’ arms and possibly replace human necks with coils, though they lack arms and a coil to do this making the exact method vague)

However, I think it’s just transmutation for the coil.

 

[King_Dom470]

If it is transmutation is that a form of dura neg?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Coil-head doesn't instantly kill you, it's just really fast at doing so. It's likely slamming something into you as a means of killing you though. Wouldn't be a durability negation of any kind.

This is correct, yes. Coilhead has literally no evidence to support the claims being made for it.

As for the OP, Ghost Girl may not even be an OP feat, contact just sort of explodes the head off the body (and may be considered dura neg or some form of hax).

 

[Keeweed]

What evidence does it have for doing it physically though? It lacks arms and the coil to replace your neck with.

Though I am glad you also count the ghost girl as just a spontaneous decapitation (like that’s exactly what I was saying, with it likely just be durability negation).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

What evidence does it have for doing it physically though? It lacks arms and the coil to replace your neck with.

Though I am glad you also count the ghost girl as just a spontaneous decapitation (like that’s exactly what I was saying, with it likely just be durability negation).

Even if it had none (it does have suggestions), Occam's Razor would apply. We wouldn't just randomly begin assigning hax for literally no reason.

I think it ramming into you at high enough speed is sufficient evidence that it kills you physically. It then has coils coming out of its body- we can't speak on the physical method of doing this, but getting coils from point A to point B is less outlandish than assuming it is a magic statue that alters matter.

 

[Keeweed]

The same statue that can spontaneously burst into flames and shoot out radioaction, that’s also in the same game with a ghost that can also supernaturally decapitate you.

Where would the coils be coming out, it’s head isn’t large enough to have those, so that would still be assuming hax. So it’s one completely vague hax versus another vague one. And there aren’t any other holes in its body and lacks arms to grab the coils even if they came out somewhere else.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"The game has other supernatural elements" is not a satisfactory excuse to proclaim everything must function by supernatural means randomly chosen from the pile.

It's head... LITERALLY has a coil extending from its body.

 

[Keeweed]

A coil it doesn’t lose upon killing you, it’s the one that holds onto its head (so straight up it’s neck). Another coil, the one it needs to kill you, would be coming out of thin air.