Lethal Company and Lethally Bad Pages: A General Content Fix

[AThe1412]

Sekiro harnesses the lightning as part of an attack. That is different than tanking being hit by it, since, again, normal humans can tank lightning. It has to do with grounding. This isn't a point that's going to be accepted, this is straight up a policy the wiki has discussed many times in the past when other verses experience neuron activation at "LITENIN'! EIGHTCY! EIGHTCY! YEEAEAH!"

The Employees ARE humans though and they will always be oneshotted if the lightning lands on them. It also strikes with enough force to send their bodies flying several meters away.
This is all I have to say for now. I'm going to wait for the opinions of other supporters.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah the running thing could very well be balance, and even if it isn't there's multiple kinds of stamina, your cardio not being that great doesn't mean you don't have great ability to operate during injuries, I still think athletic stamina's fine.

On the lightning thing though, yeah it's not an 8-C feat at all. It was once believed that if you tank it in mid-air that was enough to scale to it which is why Sekiro is but I think it was recently shown (couldn't find where, sorry) that even that is no longer the case- regardless the giant wouldn't scale to the lightning.

 

[Deagonx]

You'll have to elaborate on what you mean, I think? The code is displayed on the screen. You just type it in, and the on/off status is flipped.

I see. I'd agree with removing it then.

 

[Unkn0wnAether]

Why am i here

I’ll look over this soon

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I’m not doing my final comment because you aren’t doing a final comment. Why would I stop when you are saying I’m wrong. That’s why I made that post. It was to be a final point, but you made another point. You were the one that brought up agree to disagree first; which is why I wanted to say a final point.

Okay. When I mentioned "agree to disagree", I hadn't intended to stop posting- you asked me to explain my position, and so I did, but all I really had was what was previously mentioned already that could be summarized. This is why I'm confused about why you keep saying "okay now THIS is my last one, no take backsies- okay now THIS one- alright, nevermind, THIS-" and so on.

Regardless about this misconception... You seem to still be under the impression that I am denying the existence of at least arguable feats. I'm not. I'm of the opinion that they are balanced out by anti-feats. You keep rehashing and rephrasing the potential feats as though I am unaware- I think you overestimate them, yes, but I do not deny their existence. So, ironically, maybe there is no point in continuing discussion on that end.

I know at least 5 other videogame characters whose stamina are shown to be well above the average human and yet in-game they can't sprint for longer than 10 seconds. I also know characters who can run for seemingly forever without ever getting tired and those characters don't have infinite stamina.

"But what about-" I can't speak for literally every verse on the site being legitimate in their ratings, really. I also can't speak on the contexts that led them to be what they are. I can speak on the other major anti-feat here, being specifically unable to continue acting fully without first healing a bit at low health, not being a common feature in many other verses, that shows a specific, deliberate intention to say "no you cannot endure all of this damage and act unimpaired".

You are alive, yes- that much is a matter of durability. But you are not unaffected. You cannot continue to act functionally. You need that moment of healing to regain a baseline of vigor.

 

[Keeweed]

Two last point on the stamina then, and I get your point I just don’t agree. An anti feat doesn’t have things equal out, either it matters more or the other feats matter more and one is used. We don’t go for the middle. Either they are athletic or below average.

However, them being impaired by injuries isn’t a stamina issue that’s a physical damage issue. If it was stamina they won’t be able to continue at all. Much less continue their job for over half a day, a job that requires lifting heavy mechanic parts and scrap and constantly moving across a full facility.

 

[Deagonx]

However, them being impaired by injuries isn’t a stamina issue that’s a physical damage issue.

This is directly contrary to our Stamina standards.

Pain tolerance: How much pain a character can endure, and how well they can persevere and continue to function through said pain.
Injury tolerance: How much actual damage a character can withstand and continue to act in spite of it. It is common in fiction to see characters continue to fight despite grievous injuries, such as broken or missing limbs, heavy blood loss, and organ damage.

 

[Keeweed]

Ah well, poorly worded on my part then, because you still do act mostly fine. You just can’t sprint as well. The injuries have debilitating effects, showing they are serious injuries; however, you still continue your shift and that requires working for up to 16 hours while suffering from those severe injuries. You still can lift heavy machinery and scrap, and can still walk them around the facility for hours on end with said scrap.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Ah well, poorly worded on my part then, because you still do act mostly fine. You just can’t sprint as well. The injuries have debilitating effects, showing they are serious injuries; however, you still continue your shift and that requires working for up to 16 hours while suffering from those severe injuries. You still can lift heavy machinery and scrap, and can still walk them around the facility for hours on end with said scrap.

You don't act mostly fine. You only get better if given a short rest- when significantly wounded you can hobble around at best. Honestly, I'd be more convinced of Low Regeneration than Stamina.

 

[Keeweed]

I mean, you are left just as close to death as you were before and I don’t really see how taking a small breather would be all strange of a thing after suffering an injury that makes you bleed and struggle like it does. Though you don’t have to stop and wait. You can still continue the objective while your hobbling and in pain, and even assuming you do rest you’re still critically injured (game’s wording) and have to continue lifting heavy objects for hours while hurt and go across a facility with monsters in it.

I really feel like it’s the most clear cut stamina feat ever and I can’t believe all of this hang up is just because the goofy run mechanic. Which has been plaguing games for like a decade now.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"Strange" would not be the word. I'd expect a person with human levels of stamina to take a breather when hurt, at the very least. Your entire argument seems to amount to "well they don't die", which just... isn't stamina. It is their reaction to damage that we can get stamina from. They cannot continue to function at absolutely A-okay condition, they NEED to rest.

So I do definitely disagree with the hyperbolic idea that this is the most clear and absolute bestest awesomest stamina feat of all time. I also think you're being intentionally reductive here, since... you've been told my argument quite a lot now. But, if you like, more power to you.

 

[Keeweed]

My arguement isn’t that they survived. It’s that they take critical damage, that makes them bleed everywhere and clearly is big damage, and despite that still continue to do a physically taxing job for over half a day.

All just for them to have athletic stamina. Not super human, just above regular Joe stamina. Normal people don’t go back to work for 12 hours after being mauled, shot, or electrocuted.

They don’t need rest, they can rest which is a big difference. And even then, a small sit down to get your barring doesn’t magically make the wounds go away, as shown by you still being near death in game, and doesn’t remove the fact you have over half a day’s work to do while still injuried.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah, but since they get obviously impaired, I think that what you're arguing for is probably more indicative of Regeneration (Low) than a stamina feat. They have some level of stamina from what you're arguing, but to accept your position I need to ignore the critical injury bit, which I won't.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Your entire argument seems to amount to "well they don't die", which just... isn't stamina. It is their reaction to damage that we can get stamina from. They cannot continue to function at absolutely A-okay condition, they NEED to rest.

Being able to carry heavy objects for multiple hours despite injury is definitely a stamina feat,even if they become unable to run swiftly.

Injury tolerance: How much actual damage a character can withstand and continue to act in spite of it. It is common in fiction to see characters continue to fight despite grievous injuries, such as broken or missing limbs, heavy blood loss, and organ damage.

Yeah, but since they get obviously impaired, I think that what you're arguing for is probably more indicative of Regeneration (Low) than a stamina feat. They have some level of stamina from what you're arguing, but to accept your position I need to ignore the critical injury bit, which I won't.

The players do not regen,infact there isn't even any way to heal damage. What you are referring to is players getting staggered by an attack.

 

[Keeweed]

The critical injury is in favor of my point, you specifically continue the job while severely injured in that way. There is nothing saying you healed, and it’s specifically contradicted as you’re still as equally injured. Just getting your bearings for a bit before continuing doesn’t contradict that.

Though I’m extremely curious what would even count as athletic human stamina if carrying around 100 kg of stuff for 16 hours doesn’t count just by itself. Much less after suffer any significant injury. If an Olympic athlete got mauled by a dog and was bleeding everywhere I know for a fact they aren’t going to just ignore that and go on to lift 100 kg at the competition for over half a day straight. Meanwhile lethal company is entirely about you carrying that heavy scrap for hours at least, and it’s designed to have these monsters tear at you and attack you throughout your days.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I agree with everything, but while I'm here, shouldn't Crewmates only have 9-C/9-B AP with weapons? They're defenseless without them

 

[Abstractions]

The notion that they are carrying 100kgs over the course of all these is rather silly, you can maybe achieve an instance of that once or twice given the rarity but even ignoring that you can hardly move at all under those circumstances, let alone run for any longer than a second or two.

You're taking two of the highest end circumstances and acting like it changes the norm, which is someone who gets visibly winded after running for fifteen seconds and distinctly slows down after suffering a critical injury.

 

[Keeweed]

That can happen though, it’s not like you can’t get that much or that it’s a statistical impossibility. But even going with less weight you are still supposed to carry a 20 kg engine around at the bare minimum for hours on end. That one is one of the more basic and common items. And you need to get that through the facility to take it to the ship.

I know the critical injury hurts and weakens them, but the point is that they continue a 16 hour shift with those injuries. Every time I’ve seen people at my job suffer hilariously less bad injuries they’re either done for the day or can even be gone for a while. If my coworker gets mauled by a dog I do not believe they could reasonably be able to complete a shift at a physically demanding job for over 12 hours afterwards. Which is the sheer basis of the game here.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

gets visibly winded after running for fifteen seconds

Yeah the running thing could very well be balance, and even if it isn't there's multiple kinds of stamina, your cardio not being that great doesn't mean you don't have great ability to operate during injuries, I still think athletic stamina's fine.

distinctly slows down after suffering a critical injury.

Not a low enough anti feat to disqualify Athletic stamina.

 

[Abstractions]

That can happen though, it’s not like you can’t get that much. But even going with less weight you are still supposed to carry a 20 kg engine around at the bare minimum for hours on end. That one is one of the more basic and common items.

It's pounds, not kilograms. Stickler for details sure but that's still a fair difference.

I know the critical injury hurts and weakens them, but the point is that they continue a 16 hour shift with those injuries. Every time I’ve seen people at my job suffer hilariously less bad injuries they’re either done for the day or can even be gone for a while.

Which is the sheer basis of the game here.

Because in the real world this isn't the expectation at all times, the point of the game is that collecting the scrap is life or death anyway so someone who is injured but keen on not dying would rather attempt to meet the quota than get sucked out into space.

Not a low enough anti feat to disqualify Athletic stamina.

It's frankly below average, I'd say it's enough.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The players do not regen,infact there isn't even any way to heal damage. What you are referring to is players getting staggered by an attack.

You do heal from being critically injured, and you can then get critically injured again. If you touch the bottom of that barrel, you get back up a bit and can then touch it again.

 

[Keeweed]

“It's frankly below average, I'd say it's enough.”

I get that people really hate bring up other series. But like every game I know of ever with a stamina system has you run for a similar amount of time and nobody bats an eye with any of those characters being athletic at least. BotW, evil within, dark souls (all of them), Bloodborne, Elden ring, even mk all have stamina systems that have you run like 10 to 20 seconds max; yet it would be absolutely crazy to say any of those characters have below average human stamina. The lethal company character specifically needs to carry heavy machine parts around for a 16 hour shift, while being attacked by monsters. Them not only below average, but beneath an obese 5 year old doesn’t make any sense with the job they have.

When it comes to them being under pressure. The logs of previous employees don’t write them as crazed desperate people and they do the same job you do. They only get spooked after finding out the companies nature and this is after they lost a teammate. Even assuming the player knows what happens when they get fired, you work multiple days in a row over and over. I highly doubt being threatened is going to continuously push you through it throughout the entire experience. And even then carrying a 20 pound engine continuously for hours on end still sounds pretty athletic to me in and of itself. Much less after being mauled. Which is the bare default of the game.

 

[Abstractions]

dark souls (all of them)

Is this really the metric of comparison you're trying to go with? A character that fights in an endless cycle of repetition until they finally succeed? With these as examples?

"Constantly shrugs off being stabbed, slashed, crushed, thrown, bitten, shot, poisoned, electrocuted, burned, and impaled. Unfazed by injuries as severe as being impaled through the torso and having their skull pierced."

 

[Keeweed]

My point is that games having running stamina lasting 10 seconds is a chartoonishly common gameplay mechanic. That list you are giving is exactly what I mean for the lethal company player. You can be shot, mauled, and electrocuted and still complete you 16 hour shift. That’s the point. Like it can be written almost exactly the same way “Can work for 16 hours while carrying scrap varying from 20 pounds to 140 kg for hours on end, even after being mauled, electrocuted, or shot in a way that causes critical injury”.

 

[Abstractions]

You can be shot, mauled, and electrocuted and still complete you 16 hour shift. That’s the point,

It's not about that, but the difference between the value of the injuries you're trying to compare. The Chosen Undead is fine with these things and much more, the Crewmate isn't and is often not instantly killed by mauling attempts.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I've played almost all of those, none of those have as many detracting elements as Lethal Company, which is why Whataboutism is indeed a fallacy- with every verse so entrenched in its own context, it's almost always going to be a scenario where the arguments are incompatible.

The second paragraph descends yet again outside the bounds of what stamina is, but I'll engage insomuch as to say that the employees absolutely aren't stoic demigods against the horrors of the moons, and in particular Sigurd's writing in the Jester log advises people to high-tail it out, and his note seems to imply some form of impending danger ("You're In Deep"). And like... this bit:

I highly doubt being threatened is going to continuously push you through it throughout the entire experience.

Yeah if I know it's death or work, I guess I'd choose death too?

 

[Keeweed]

The chosen undead has a vastly higher stamina rating though, for that very reason. You are still being mauled, mauled in a way that is damaging. And you continue your shift. You work for hours, carrying various amounts of heavy scrap, while getting attacked and can be severely injured. The point is that the running is never even thought about for those games and lethal company has a similar scenario just on a lesser end. Which is why they would get a lesser stamina.

 

[Keeweed]

I've played almost all of those, none of those have as many detracting elements as Lethal Company, which is why Whataboutism is indeed a fallacy- with every verse so entrenched in its own context, it's almost always going to be a scenario where the arguments are incompatible.

The second paragraph descends yet again outside the bounds of what stamina is, but I'll engage insomuch as to say that the employees absolutely aren't stoic demigods against the horrors of the moons, and in particular Sigurd's writing in the Jester log advises people to high-tail it out, and his note seems to imply some form of impending danger ("You're In Deep"). And like... this bit:

Yeah if I know it's death or work, I guess I'd choose death too?

I’m not saying they are stoic Demi gods, I’m literally just saying they are slightly above average, athletic, and not below average despite working for 16 hours. How is that such a crazy egotistical thought to have.

 

[Keeweed]

How could I argue for a stamina rating without bring up the stuff they do. There is barely one whatism and it’s about a very common gameplay mechanic, and everything is legitimately about how the game is set up. The shift is 16 hours, you can receive critical injuries, you are still supposed to be able to complete that 16 hour shift with those injuries.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I agree with everything, but while I'm here, shouldn't Crewmates only have 9-C/9-B AP with weapons? They're defenseless without them

I'm about to apply this CRT (as it just hit the 48 hour period before it can be applied) but I will respond to this before closing: maybe, but we don't actually know how strong they are without them since we're just fully not given the ability to attack with them. If you wanted to propose like a 10-B, 9-C with weapons, 9-B with shotgun (and maybe the ladder, that thing is ****** up) rating, I guess it would be technically correct (probably, at least).

If you make a thread, do tell me.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

(This shit has been applied, also I applied the rename of the Player to just "Employee" since that's generally more fitting: thank you all, even Keeweed for the discussion)