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Super Mario General Discussion Thread.
- Thread starter Shadowbokunohero
- Start date
StretchSebe
They/Them- 1,005
- 738
Thinking about it, I'm not sure they directly use them for like, fights, or empowering themselves, or anything.
In using them in terms of game progression, they do collect and hold onto them throughout games though. Again, to progress through gates, or galaxies and stuff, but there could be something said of the fact Mario collects and holds onto so many given they can empower those who hold them.
As said in their powers and abilities section. In that section, they also provide examples of Mario using them, such as in Mario Party 2, and these:
"Stated to grow stronger from Peach's Castle (Super Mario 64) the more Power Stars Mario collects. (SM64 DS) They're also prime candidates for powering ships and machinery (Galaxy 1 and 2)"
Also, Power moons are also heavily implied to just be power stars of a different shape.
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I think that this could be enough proof for them to have a 3-C key that says something like "with power stars"
StretchSebe
They/Them- 1,005
- 738
It's in there as 'Statistics Amplification' (?)
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Why...? Pretty sure it's been said somewhere that it outright makes him invincible
Super Star
Super Stars, originally referred to as Starmen and alternatively referred to as Star Bonuses, Invincible Starmen, Invincibility Stars, Stars, or Star-Men, are items used in many games of the Super Mario franchise, most notably the Super Mario series...
This also says it makes the user invincible. That's not Statistics Amplification
StretchSebe
They/Them- 1,005
- 738
In looking up invincibility for a massive blog I'm making on a verse's characters powers/abilites, feats, and stats, the wiki does not have a page for that power/ability.Why...? Pretty sure it's been said somewhere that it outright makes him invincible
Super Star
Super Stars, originally referred to as Starmen and alternatively referred to as Star Bonuses, Invincible Starmen, Invincibility Stars, Stars, or Star-Men, are items used in many games of the Super Mario franchise, most notably the Super Mario series...www.mariowiki.com
This also says it makes the user invincible. That's not Statistics Amplification
I too find it strange to only consider invincibility by proxy through 'Stastics Amplification,' especially since they have a page for immortality
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most of the people on this wiki doesn't treat their invincibility items as legitimate invulnerability, unfortunately
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If I understand right, it's because on VSBW, Invincibility is treated as a NLF - A No Limits Fallacy.
If someone -Not necessarily Mario, anyone, in theory- is say, 9-B, & normally deals with foes comparable to themself, that can harm them or such, but then they become invincible, that's shows they're invincible to characters of such power, in theory, but....
Increasing one's Durability enough would have the same effects in most cases. You don't get hurt.
& Durability can be surmounted by a great enough advantage in Attack Potency/Striking Strength.
To say that it would work against ANY level of power without proof the invulnerability effects are separate from stats is considered a No Limits Fallacy.
So it isn't enough that you don't get hurt by something, because again, greater Durability (& offensively, greater Striking Strength/Attack Potency.) would accomplish the same thing as the supposed "Invincibility".
Hence, it needs to be shown that the Invincibility's effects are separate from mere statistics, such as through statements clarifying how it's separate from stats, showing that it works against things vastly stronger than the affected, etc.
Unfortunately, the second method tends to be hard for characters like Mario, who lack statements about how their Invincibility work, & whom are the God tiers of their verse, so there isn't much to prove the Invincibility isn't stat-surmountable.
Or at least, that's my rough understanding. Apologies if I got stuff about the Wiki's stance wrong.
If someone -Not necessarily Mario, anyone, in theory- is say, 9-B, & normally deals with foes comparable to themself, that can harm them or such, but then they become invincible, that's shows they're invincible to characters of such power, in theory, but....
Increasing one's Durability enough would have the same effects in most cases. You don't get hurt.
& Durability can be surmounted by a great enough advantage in Attack Potency/Striking Strength.
To say that it would work against ANY level of power without proof the invulnerability effects are separate from stats is considered a No Limits Fallacy.
So it isn't enough that you don't get hurt by something, because again, greater Durability (& offensively, greater Striking Strength/Attack Potency.) would accomplish the same thing as the supposed "Invincibility".
Hence, it needs to be shown that the Invincibility's effects are separate from mere statistics, such as through statements clarifying how it's separate from stats, showing that it works against things vastly stronger than the affected, etc.
Unfortunately, the second method tends to be hard for characters like Mario, who lack statements about how their Invincibility work, & whom are the God tiers of their verse, so there isn't much to prove the Invincibility isn't stat-surmountable.
Or at least, that's my rough understanding. Apologies if I got stuff about the Wiki's stance wrong.
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Well some of the scans on Mario's profile are direct links to the Mario wiki and the Mario wiki says that Super Stars make the user invincible
Lou_change
He/Him- 9,791
- 5,180
That doesn’t mean it meets our standards for invulnerability
StretchSebe
They/Them- 1,005
- 738
This is why I use superpower wiki for actual powers/abilities (not on profiles, of course; just to learn/know what exists out there)
Also;
I think the issue is that invincibility/invulnerability just isn't recognized at all on this wiki, due to the reason Imaginym had said.
It's nearly, if not, more common than immortality, which is really what makes it strange. And it's far from a NLF:
For example, in MTG: Gideon, who's thing is being invincible/invulnerable, is nearly killed by a demon and a puddle:
"He seizes an opportunity to strike and nearly drowns Gideon in a shallow pool of water, but instead flips the unconscious Gideon over rather than letting him die."
A better example may be Hercules also kills the invincible lion in his myth by strangling it, and depriving it of oxygen.
Tl;dr: Invincibility/invulnerability being an 'NLF' is a skill issue.
Lou_change
He/Him- 9,791
- 5,180
For some reason they decided statements were enough to get it to discussion rule status I think
Lou_change
He/Him- 9,791
- 5,180
Invulnerability on this site is just ap negation but they mention it once in the third paragraph I think
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Get what to discussion rule status?
Lou_change
He/Him- 9,791
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My bad I misremembered they just threw it on the verse page as a note
koopa3144
He/Him- 6,404
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A few Super Mario Bros. Wonder additions (Power-Ups, Ghost forms, resurrection, and Badges)
Power-Ups So Power-Ups are pretty simple Elephant Fruit is just Transformation and Statistics Amplification. Water Manipulation and minor sealing (Via Bubble Flower which [character name] can use to blow bubbles that can be used as platforms, the bubbles can also trap and transmute enemies...
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Probably far from perfect, but found a Japanese playing of 3D Culex.
They Thought Peek all but the Fire Crystal.
The crystal's thoughts seem accurate to the English translation, but someone should probably double check 3D Culex's intro speech.
I think 2D "regular"/base Culex needs to be checked, too.
They Thought Peek all but the Fire Crystal.
The crystal's thoughts seem accurate to the English translation, but someone should probably double check 3D Culex's intro speech.
I think 2D "regular"/base Culex needs to be checked, too.
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In The eng ver he said "I'm past, present and future.I will consume all of time and space" but in the jap ver he is saying something about being the strongest warrior and something like that so rip lol
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You mean 2D or 3D Culex?
Still, oof, RIP. Checks out with what Legends of Localization said about the original SMRPG being inaccurate with that Culex dialogue, though.
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3D, it's weird how they wanked that shit TWO times
koopa3144
He/Him- 6,404
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So the Super Mario RPG remake is dropping today which is neat. I've seen the Triple Move's and I think Mario, Mallow, and Princess Peach dispersing a large storm in the Healing Rainbow Triple Move might be impressive.
koopa3144
He/Him- 6,404
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I don't think so. We don't really have anything to make a counter-thread with atm. We would need several calc around a consistent tier to upgrade Mario any higher.
ZespeonGalaxy
He/Him- 1,383
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nop, theres some tier 4 feats that could be revised. And debunking “antifeats”
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I'm not exactly sure how our standards on this kind of thing are but assuming the storm gets cleared the frame it's no longer visible (46 frames at 60 FPS) that'd give a speed of 20000 / 46 * 60 = 26086.95652 m/s
5421709348262.685 x 26086.95652^2 x (1/12) = 3.0746934e+20 / 3 (Since they all put their power into it) = 1.0248978e+20 Joules, Island level. 1.6x the value of DK's moon punch, which is pretty nice.
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,187
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Honestly I'm just glad I have an easy way to get clips for all the items in the games and what they do, planning a optional equipment CRT for the party for all the gear in the game but the only reliable scans I had were the nintendo power guide saying what they do and sometimes they didn't even describe it properly
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On the topic of re-upgrades, it's probably not a good idea for me to start up a discussion here so I'll just say- you're obviously free to make any threads of course but I would advise making sure you have new arguments rather than just trying to repeat things that were brought up already.
I will say that there's several cosmic feats that are generally (or officially) accepted that I've found have flaws that were never discussed, I didn't want to bring them up in the middle of the thread because I didn't want to add a new unrelated argument in the middle of a fairly long discussion, but that is something I will bring up if upgrade threads are made.
I will say that there's several cosmic feats that are generally (or officially) accepted that I've found have flaws that were never discussed, I didn't want to bring them up in the middle of the thread because I didn't want to add a new unrelated argument in the middle of a fairly long discussion, but that is something I will bring up if upgrade threads are made.
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No offense and I don't mean to derail or start anything, but... why couldn't you just, like... calculate all the other feats in the series that would yield results in tier 5 and 4?
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Because putting a specific number on them doesn't inherently make them more or less valid in regards to the thread I made, not to mention that I don't think most of them can be properly calculated to begin with other than just, I dunno, counting the amount of stars shown.
Lou_change
He/Him- 9,791
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I mean 6-C is based on one calc which you tried supporting with feat based the distance from earth to our own moon. Frankly it was a Wii game it couldn't handle an actual moon model and they just used the world map model for the island in the cutscene
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It's not an in-engine CGi, it's a pre-recorded one. They could have made the moon as big as they wanted. Also if it was the real moon the planet would be in much worse condition that it was after the event.
Lou_change
He/Him- 9,791
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I mean technically the moon would be torn apart by crossing the Roche limit. Regarding realism undamaged bananas are launched by eruption that sent the moon back in orbit. The probably premodeled the moon but either way you can see the rocket on the island which contradicts what it looks like in level significantly for example size, the top splitting, and the surroundings shown, hell the moon is different.
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Uh, I find it pretty difficult to believe that a majority of the higher-end feats in the series can't be properly calculated. I mean, I participated in a CRT that attempted to upgrade the lifting strength for the Mario Bros, and we already have a calculation of a Power Star moving stars to create a constellation from one of the Mario Party games, yielding Large Star AP and Multi-Stellar lifting strength. It's been evaluated and accepted by two calculation group members and added to the Power Star profile
There are multiple instances of POSSIBLY or SUPPOSED black holes throughout the games as well as quite a few of planet-sized explosions in the Super Mario Galaxy games that could be calculated. Not to mention the fact that Bowser can become the size of a planet and punch it in two instances of the second Galaxy game. At the very least, some of the other calculation group members could've been asked to give advice on how to get said calculations for such feats accepted while still yielding results in tier 5 or 4.
Not trying to be rude here.
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Ok but like, the Moon is visibly not that big, you can point at tertiary extrapolated things all you want but it just doesn't change the most obvious form of visual evidence. No verse would or should ever get away with this. And if Mario did, then the feat would become an outlier.
And like, if the Moon looks different in a different situation then that is an ulterior reason for not using that unrelated scene.
The blog you're talking about counts the stars shown and does nothing else with it.
You quote a lot of things and post no scans. It's difficult for me to disagree with something without knowing what you're even talking about, although if I'm right, none of those things are legit in the slightest. But I will remind you that tanking a black hole never counts as a durability feat.
You seem to believe- and I've gotten that impression a lot with you JT- that people are under some obligation to rate the verse as high as they can. Why should they be specifically trying to get results that hit tier 5 or 4, rather than just results that are the most correct and acceptable? They- and I- and you- are supposed to strive for accuracy, whether it ends in a high or low result, not the highest possible results that are vaguely acceptable.
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,187
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Culex in the remake is said to come from the land of "Last Illusion" and I find that funnier than I should be.
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So? That doesn't mean it's wrong or can't be used; that was just an example of a hgher-end feat. Not EVERY SINGLE feat that would probably be higher than Island or Small Country level in the franchise CANNOT be calculated.
I thought you said you played a bit of the Super Mario games, Armor. There are multiple instances of POSSIBLE black holes in the Mario Galaxy series, and I didn't say you had to find the durability to tank them. You could find the speed and lifting strength needed to escape them, or the AP that certain characters like Bowser or Cackletta needed to create them. And there's sources both inside and/or outside of the games that states they're black holes.
Dude, you just answered your question. I mean, is that not why your wiki and you guys as calculation group members exists? The whole idea of your website is to pinpoint the accuracy of characters' stats, powers and abilities, no? If you're that much concerned about acceptability and accuracy, then all you have to do is follow the instructions on calculation instruction pages and ask some other calculation group members to make sure they're correct. That's why you have evaluations, is it not?
DimeUhDozen
She/Her- 5,671
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Has the storm Dark Bowser made in BiS been calced?
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