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Super Mario General Discussion Thread.

F8v8uKyWQAAIRfe.jpg

So glad this isnt my screenshot, regardless stay safe fellas :salute:
 
Watching a video about Super Mario Bros. Wonder because I'm curious.
Starting with the Shining Falls section because it often seems to be skipped.

For The Crouching Jump Badge Challenge, Master Florian states it took him years to master that technique, but they mastered it so quickly, & that they won't find the next challenge so easy, they believe.

So, do Badges enable/generate skills that require years of training to master?
Are Poplins just inept at crouch jumping & such?

Also, in The Midway Trial: Hop To It, there'd a Red Hoppycat holding a Wonder Flower. Some talking Flowers will comment on it. Ex: "I just saw the weirdest thing...."
That Red Hoppycat has a visible wonder glow & when it jumps in imitation of Mario, it jumps crazy high, such that it's a good way further into the next level each time.

So.... Enemies can get Statistics Amplification just by holding Wonder Flowers? At least in this regard. More research is needed, lol.
Hoppycat Mario also has a huge jump. Seems to be able to control how high it can go. Some kind of propulsion, too?



BTW, I hope people are tracking Talking Flower dialogue. Including checking if flowers have extra dialogue after circumstances, like how The Talking Flowers that get freed from crystal will exhale & then usually have different dialogue. (As seen in 1 of the levels in the demo.)

There's also a Talking Flower that falls a great distance, & I think, at least in the playthrough I saw, ends up falling past the death barrier.
I wonder how many of them have distinct dialogue for stuff like water being sprayed on them?

Also, according to a loading screen tip, Talking Flowers often spend days just waiting for someone to talk to them.
 
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After beating The Sugarstar Trial: Across the Night Sky, Master Poplin says "You were able to follow their complex movements? Even I cannot move within their waves so well. Is the master... at risk... of proving a mere student?"

....'course, said stage also lets you cheese it in stellar (Hah!) fashion by using the Wonder Flower to spawn Super Stars.... Also, when he hops to disappear, a Hoppycat in the overworld jumps to mimic him; So they'll mimic even Poplins jumping, not just player characters.

Oh, & apparently the true exit of The Final Trial: Zip Track Dash is the 1 that involves using a Wonder Flower to turn into a Hoppycat.
I mean, I guess Master Poplin does keep a Royal Seed to give only to those who pass the trials, but.... A little weird, no? I guess that's why no one's cleared the trial, lol.

Master Poplin also says "But what did I really teach you? Nothing at all! Ha ha!" He also fails to do his "Poof!" trick to disappear after giving out the Royal Seed.
 
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Imaginym said:
My bad, blurred now!
Sorry for the spoilers! (Although if you did read it, hopefully it's enjoyable or at least interesting.)

Also, doesn't it come out on the 20th, which is like, in literally just an hour from now?

Also, any opposition if I ramble (In blurred or collapsible spoilers.) about other findings as I go?
Click to expand...
All good and yeah it drops within an hour. And yeah any wonder find i would prefer you blur, i say give it a month or so to talk about spoilers assuming they are without the spoiler mark.
 
ZespeonGalaxy said:
All good and yeah it drops within an hour. And yeah any wonder find i would prefer you blur, i say give it a month or so to talk about spoilers assuming they are without the spoiler mark.
Click to expand...
Right then. I'll try to keep any spoilers blurred &/or in collapsible spoiler text boxes.

Sadly, I'm a bit too impulsive to just NOT go rambling about this new content to explore, so I'd rather post it blurred or such than wait a whole month, by which time I'd likely, probably have forgotten, y'know?
 
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Other stuff:

If I counted right, 2 hits from a Spiny will shatter a crystal block. (Can be seen in a demo level.) May be worth calc-ing??

Even as a Goomba, Mario can beat Maw Maws by landing on them. The 1st hit dazes, the 2nd hit defeats. A single Ground Pound will defeat them.
If a shell goes towards a Maw Maw's mouth, it'll eat it... then spit the shell back out.

10 Flower Coins is enough to fix the broken bridge in Fungi Mines, lol. Or rather, to get "Loyal Poplin" to fix it; His friends were already trapped down in the mines after going deeper to seek a Royal Seed for Prince Florian, so WHY DOES HE NEED TO BE PAID TO FIX THE BRIDGE?!
Are the pale beige wooden bridge planks made of money, oh "Loyal Poplin"?!
He completes the work in a cartoony cloud of hustle & bustle in seconds, at least.

Sensor Badge is given, dialogue says "the one that senses things we want to find, right? Like Wonder Flowers and other special things aside from that!".

For the "Pumpkin Party" Wonder Effect in Upshroom Downshroom, the Wonder Seed will move left & right.

The Wonder Effect in "Taily's Toxic Pond" summons a quiz. 1 of the questions even asks how many Goombas have been defeated.

Boos disappear when exposed to lights in Light-Switch Mansion.
Light-Switch Mansion's Wonder Effect has Broadway Force.

In Beware of the Rifts, there are blobs of moving... stuff that show starry skies of space. The Wonder Effect fuses them into a ghost-like clone with the appearance of those rifts. It can be stunned by a big POW Block & Fire Flower Fireballs. There are also "Rift" versions of Koopas, too.

Sadly, I haven't seen what the rifts do on contact with the player character. Anyone wanna test this out?

Mario can run on top of goo.
During the Wonder Effect of An Uncharted Area: Wubba Ruins, one Talking Flower says "Ooh, you look tasty!" & another says "What flavor are you?"
(First the 1 what wanted to taste a Goomba, now these who wanna taste Goo Mario.... Why do so many of these flowers want to taste the player characters?)
Another has the dialogue "slurp Mmm! Delicious!" so 1 of them DID taste Goo Mario.

Loyal Poplin: "Incredible! You discovered your through that place on your first visit! I usually get lost..."
He does similar dialogue for other Ruins Levels, so I wonder what happens if you FAIL on your first attempt? Can anyone test this?

The Wonder Seed in Another Uncharted Area: Swaying Ruins moves in an arc. The Wonder Effect of that area creates bouncy & slippery floors & walls.
There's also a strange, glowy liquid where lava or water would be. I wonder what happens if Mario touches it?
Based on the name of "A Final Uncharted Area: Poison Ruins", it may be poison? In said area, there's also a Talking Flower that says "Only the chosen one can calm the blazing light."
This likely refers to a spherical "blazing light" at the end of the Wonder Effect area for that level, which holds the Wonder Seed.

Boos aren't affected by Bubble Mario's Bubbles; They pass over the Boo without effect.

Before returning to The Petal Isles from Fungi Mines, Prince Florian notes: "It's a quick ascent, so your ears might pop..."

Angler Poplin didn't catch any fish, but found a message in a bottle with the message "Look to the distant sky to find a Special World.".

A Talking Flower in Muncher Fields strains & yells "I can feel the power!" while having a visible glow from a Wonder Flower.

POW Blocks can defeat Black Munchers. White Munchers can be defeated with Fire Flowers.

Wiggler can move through purple fluid -Poison?- unharmed.

Near the end of Wiggler Race Spelunking, some Talking Flowers call out "Mario", suggesting they know his name. I wonder if they call out other player characters' names?

 
bummer on the bubble not affecting Boos. Even if it got accepted as EE it'll just be physical again. Oh well.

Also, there's a Wonder Flower effect that turns the day into night complete with a Moon that goes away when you collect the seed. Pretty decent range and feat in general.

There's also one that amps an enemy up to be able to push a large golden Bowser statue. I imagine this would be the most impressive LS feat in the game. Mario can sort of slow them down but can't completely stop them so he's not that much weaker than them. Also some bulrushes shatter a Bowser statue later on that's just stone it seems. Another little feat.
 
So I just beat the final boss of Wonder and can safely say its peak. It's a shame it's one of the few good bosses in the game though.
So do the character's ghost forms have layered intangibility cause they pass through enemies like Goombas and Koopas who have NPI?
 
Shouldn't Boos have already had that?

But that sounds good.

Also the Wonder flower can turn a constellation of a Hoppo into the actual enemy so that's a good feat

Could also argue Uni Bowser via his range extending to the entire universe and having the power to be able to potentially tilt it since he should have access to all the Wonder abilities
 
Like, Bowser got the Wonder Flower's power. He basically fused it into him like a Super Dimentio situation. He explicitly says he's gaining power and strength from it. We've seen Wonder effects are able to manipulate their areas of effects massively and change them up greatly, such as Jr. freezing the environment and turning it to honey. We know that Bowser can use the Wonder effect beyond Broadway Force because his son borrows small bits of his power and is able to replicate effects seen in other levels. And in the final fight Bowser weaponizes his power against you, sending musical notes made out of sentient fire piranhas as ab attack. He can even just spit the cloudy stuff that could cause small wonders in the castle levels and such as attacks.

I feel like you can easily make the case that it should scale to his AP given he stated he was literally getting stronger from the Wonder Flower. In other levels the flowers are able to power an enemy up in order to vastly boost their normal capabilities like a Hoppo sending Mario to space or one of those pushy guys being able to overpower Mario, albeit not by that much, but it's still a noticeable jump. I think with all these implications he can just get the full uni spread. We can prove he'd be able to effect the universe, he's getting his power and strength from the flower, and it should be within his capabilities to be able to manipulate and warp the universe to his will with that range, he was just single-minded and enjoyed the Broadway Force but that doesn't mean he couldn't do literally anything else. Wonder Flowers also don't just only do one thing they can do multiple as we've seen so that argument wouldn't work either that his flower only gave Broadway force
 
Beat the game this evening

The bosses, really was hoping they stepped it up. Going to 100% for sure, can be baby mode the first two worlds ig but i understand why. Best 2D Mario and its not even close.
 
Shining Falls Special Triple Threat Deluge features a big cloud with 3 Lakitu in the background who throw big, golden spikey balls. LS & range feat?

Fungi Mines Special Dangerous Donut RIde features a Talking Flower that falls out of nowhere during a Wonder Effect, & despite falling straight down, not only falls past Mario -Presumably, Mario's freefall state the Wonder Effect gives slowed his descent?- but lands safely on a pipe, in spite of the moving walls of glowy "poison"(?) at the bottom that should have moved over it??

Deep Magma Bog Special Solar Roller has sun-like, huge spheres of fire, which considering the title.... Then again, they don't act much like suns/stars beyond being floating, fiery spheres. Also, the background is quite terrestrial.
There are also some giant, dragon things that dive into said spheres?

According to a loading tip: "Yoshis have extremely relaxed attitudes. They even let Mario and his friends ride on their backs."
Another says: "The All Elephant Power Badge makes any power-up items you collect change you into Elephant form!" WHY WOULD YOU WANT THAT?!

Wonder Effects can spawn rifts, & if Mario touches a rift while under the effect of a Super Star, he goes "behind" it.

A Talking Flower says: "Focus... Take a breath. Wait! We're underwater! Just focus."

Typed that a few days ago, hope I waited long enough to post it.
 
just beat the final boss

gotta say, it's definitely a step above previous Super Mario Bros titles, but it also felt a lil underwhelming. especially considering it's rated the highest difficulty

I did find out Koopas can walk through the rifts in that Beware of the Rifts level, completely unphased
 
Btw, is anyone working on listing the abilities of the Wonder Flowers? I was planning on listing them but I wanted to see if someone already listed the Wonder Flower abilities.
 
Yeah the badges don't add a whole lot VS wise. They're decent abilities and helpful in some situations but not entirely practical

The list of wonder flower abilities is going to be pretty huge
 
Abilities I'd assign to Wonder Flowers in no particular order:

Creation, Existence Erasure (Most Wonder Effects create something & things may often disappear when a Wonder Effect starts.)
Transmutation, Size Manipulation (Wonder Effects often change the form of something affected.)
Life Manipulation, Animal Manipulation, Mind(?) Manipulation (Enemies such as Bulrushes are often created by Wonder Effects, some may change behaviour because of it.)
Resurrection (Revived & reanimated fossils of giant, winged, Yoshi-like serpents.)
Plant Manipulation (Even if Pirhana Plants don't count, I'd assume there's at least 1 instance of plants being affected by a Wonder Effect.)
Teleportation(?) (Some Wonder Effects may take the affected to a different area.)
Power Bestowal, Statistics Amplification (Things affected may have new abilities under a Wonder Effect, be stronger, or even invulnerable, a Talking Flower claimed it could feel the power while it had a Wonder Flower.)
(Possibly Power Modification?)
Power Nullification/Modification of Natural Weaponry &/or Projectile/Platform Creation (Made Blewbirds spit giant rainbow, coloured bubbles that could be bounced off of instead of the Blewbirds' usual beaks/polesticks that can serve as platforms.)
Elasticity & Adhesiveness/Surface Scaling are probably among those granted due to the Puffy Lift & Slime forms.

Light Manipulation (Makes lights, glows, things that hold a Wonder Flower often Glow, an unactivated Wonder Flower was a light source in a dark area), Darkness Manipulation (Darkened many areas such that most things were silhouettes.), Sound Manipulation (Wonder Flowers initiate a sound effect upon contact, some Wonder Effects cause music, Bowser expected the universe to be his audience.), Broadway Force (Most enemies & Talking Flowers present for them will often participate in &/or enjoy the musical events of Wonder Effects.).
Explosion Manipulation (Caused fireworks.)

Telekinesis/Gravity Manipulation, Water Manipulation (Made water adhere to ceilings &/or float up in big spheres.), Bubble Manipulation (For obvious reasons.).

Air/Wind Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Weather Manipulation (Can cause storms & huge winds capable of carrying people, as well as causing huge lightning bolts that go in atypical-for-lightning directions)

Poison(?) Manipulation (Can create a huge wave of poison(?) that rises up.)
Time Manipulation (Can speed up or slow down time.)
Void Manipulation (A Wonder Effect made nearby voids become a clone of Mario that imitated him.)
Earth Manipulation (Even if we don't count tilting the ground or creating stuff, there's probably at least 1 where it did something that fits this.)
Maybe Crystal Manipulation (Did it create any of these?)
Snow/Ice Manipulation (Made huge snowflakes fall which would become snow blocks upon landing, notedly threatening to bury inhabitants & the area.)
Temperature/Ice/ColdHeat Manipulation (Bowser Jr.'s boss battle in Fluff-Puff Peaks has the stage switch between being cold & slippery or being covered in a liquid. It's unclear which; Some have speculated honey (Which would be Organic Manipulation, but I think it's the stone/metal floor being liquified, especially by heat, because thematics, which would be Heat Manipulation or some weird ability. Liquification??)

1 Wonder Effect on a Bowser airship created by Kamek, features Bowser's laughter, IIRC, as a crosshair fires at where the player character is to create explosions.


Obviously, Wonder Seeds have Power Nullification for things their matching colour Wonder Flowers can do, since what kinds of effects seem to be based on flower colour which seems to be based on location. Existence Erasure of such things also seems likely.


There might be some I missed.
 
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That's pretty good. I can't think of something not listed off the top of my head.

I'm personally of tgr type that thinks Jr. is actively turning the place into honey in his fight. The color and the fact it slows Mario down seems to hint at it being of some sticky substance like honey. Doesn't look like molten rock to me, and we know he can swim through lava like water if he's invulnerable which he doesn't in the fight and also usually heated stuff harms Mario but all it does is slow him down and make jumping more difficult.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
That's pretty good. I can't think of something not listed off the top of my head.

I'm personally of tgr type that thinks Jr. is actively turning the place into honey in his fight. The color and the fact it slows Mario down seems to hint at it being of some sticky substance like honey. Doesn't look like molten rock to me, and we know he can swim through lava like water if he's invulnerable which he doesn't in the fight and also usually heated stuff harms Mario but all it does is slow him down and make jumping more difficult.
Click to expand...
Ice & honey is a weird combo, but it might be what it is, I guess??

Has anyone checked idle animations to see if they sweat or shiver or such there?

Also, I was reading TV Tropes & saw some interesting theories:
  • "Why is Yoshi invincible except for bottomless pits and lava? Because in Super Mario games where he is a Power Up Mount, he's completely immune to damage when nobody is riding him, and in the Yoshi's Island series, he didn't die unless he fell down a pit or touched lethal obstacles such as spikes. Yoshi getting hurt only ever ejected his rider off his back."
  • "In the airship levels, the Wonder Effect is the face of the airship appearing and attacking, instead of something random. Since these airships are summoned by Kamek, Kamek probably told Bowser that the heroes would be in the airship, and since Bowser has Wonder Power, he must have hijacked the Wonder Flower in an attempt to destroy Mario."
Admittedly, the former invincible Yoshi theory is contradicted by a lot of the rest of the franchise & Yoshi not taking damage when unridden could be called game mechanics in many instances, since the point of it is indeed, to be a "Power Up Mount"; It's a little feel-bad for a player if their power-up can get taken out when they're not using it.

Oh, & 1 possible 1 might be that some areas gone to by a Wonder Effect have mushrooms in bubbles or such, so Wonder Effects COULD get Fungus Manipulation for creating Mushrooms, lol.
Assuming we can find any instances of any kind of mushroom being created by a Wonder Effect AND be certain it isn't the case that the mushroom was just there already & the location is 1 the player character was teleported to.
 
koopa3144 said:
I'm not sure. While we have the powers granted by badges listed by @ZespeonGalaxy, we still need a good list of the powers of the Wonder Flowers before we make a crt for Wonder.
Click to expand...
Did I not provide such?
Imaginym said:
Abilities I'd assign to Wonder Flowers in no particular order:

Creation, Existence Erasure (Most Wonder Effects create something & things may often disappear when a Wonder Effect starts.)
Transmutation, Size Manipulation (Wonder Effects often change the form of something affected.)
Life Manipulation, Animal Manipulation, Mind(?) Manipulation (Enemies such as Bulrushes are often created by Wonder Effects, some may change behaviour because of it.)
Resurrection (Revived & reanimated fossils of giant, winged, Yoshi-like serpents.)
Plant Manipulation (Even if Pirhana Plants don't count, I'd assume there's at least 1 instance of plants being affected by a Wonder Effect.)
Teleportation(?) (Some Wonder Effects may take the affected to a different area.)
Power Bestowal, Statistics Amplification (Things affected may have new abilities under a Wonder Effect, be stronger, or even invulnerable, a Talking Flower claimed it could feel the power while it had a Wonder Flower.)
(Possibly Power Modification?)
Power Nullification/Modification of Natural Weaponry &/or Projectile/Platform Creation (Made Blewbirds spit giant rainbow, coloured bubbles that could be bounced off of instead of the Blewbirds' usual beaks/polesticks that can serve as platforms.)
Elasticity & Adhesiveness/Surface Scaling are probably among those granted due to the Puffy Lift & Slime forms.

Light Manipulation (Makes lights, glows, things that hold a Wonder Flower often Glow, an unactivated Wonder Flower was a light source in a dark area), Darkness Manipulation (Darkened many areas such that most things were silhouettes.), Sound Manipulation (Wonder Flowers initiate a sound effect upon contact, some Wonder Effects cause music, Bowser expected the universe to be his audience.), Broadway Force (Most enemies & Talking Flowers present for them will often participate in &/or enjoy the musical events of Wonder Effects.).
Explosion Manipulation (Caused fireworks.)

Telekinesis/Gravity Manipulation, Water Manipulation (Made water adhere to ceilings &/or float up in big spheres.), Bubble Manipulation (For obvious reasons.).

Air/Wind Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Weather Manipulation (Can cause storms & huge winds capable of carrying people, as well as causing huge lightning bolts that go in atypical-for-lightning directions)

Poison(?) Manipulation (Can create a huge wave of poison(?) that rises up.)
Time Manipulation (Can speed up or slow down time.)
Void Manipulation (A Wonder Effect made nearby voids become a clone of Mario that imitated him.)
Earth Manipulation (Even if we don't count tilting the ground or creating stuff, there's probably at least 1 where it did something that fits this.)
Maybe Crystal Manipulation (Did it create any of these?)
Snow/Ice Manipulation (Made huge snowflakes fall which would become snow blocks upon landing, notedly threatening to bury inhabitants & the area.)
Temperature/Ice/ColdHeat Manipulation (Bowser Jr.'s boss battle in Fluff-Puff Peaks has the stage switch between being cold & slippery or being covered in a liquid. It's unclear which; Some have speculated honey (Which would be Organic Manipulation, but I think it's the stone/metal floor being liquified, especially by heat, because thematics, which would be Heat Manipulation or some weird ability. Liquification??)

1 Wonder Effect on a Bowser airship created by Kamek, features Bowser's laughter, IIRC, as a crosshair fires at where the player character is to create explosions.


Obviously, Wonder Seeds have Power Nullification for things their matching colour Wonder Flowers can do, since what kinds of effects seem to be based on flower colour which seems to be based on location. Existence Erasure of such things also seems likely.


There might be some I missed.
Click to expand...
Is it too disorderly/unformatted or such?
Scans required?

Also, on the topic, another ability I noticed is there's a Wonder Effect in Deep Magma Bog that seems to grant indefinite Invulnerability with a distinctive aura; The player character can pass through/over what appears to be magma completely unharmed, & defeats enemies on contact, unharmed by them.

Also, a Wonder power/Flower/effect gives Bowser Jr. Cloning in 1 of his boss battles.

Also, IDK how consistent it is with previous entries, but Buzzy Beetles seem unharmed by lava/magma in this game. May need more investigating.
 
Imaginym said:
Also, on the topic, another ability I noticed is there's a Wonder Effect in Deep Magma Bog that seems to grant indefinite Invulnerability with a distinctive aura; The player character can pass through/over what appears to be magma completely unharmed, & defeats enemies on contact, unharmed by them.
Click to expand...

first time we could actually wade through lava

it usually kills the player regardless of if they have a Super Star, or White Super Leaf

so that's definitely something to note
 
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