Sun Wukong VS Konpaku Yomu (Lego Monkie Kid VS Touhou Project) 6/7/0

[RanHover60]

I recently talked to the LMK writer in twitter regarding this and it seems he agrees most of the LMK casts are immune to time manipulation @Speedblitzer50 @RanHover60
Might be added to their profiles later

Wtf is this

 

[Sdjlakjh]

Youmu's Spirit Manipulation does a lot more than just chip away at someone's spirit. If I'm reading the page correctly, she can also absorb it to amp herself while weakening Wukong as the battle continues (assuming stuff is equalized?). I don't a corresponding resistance on Wukong's page (but I am blind) so, as the battle continues, Youmu would theoretically get stronger while Wukong gets weaker.

Invulnerability doesn't really matter since both of them can become invulnerable. Though that in addition to Shockwaves, forcefield, and the ability to slow down attacks after a certain vicinity, could help Youmu in avoiding attacks Goku dishes out. The cloning of his is what makes it difficult. If the battle continues, then the clones would (I think) become less effective thanks to the aforementioned spirit manip. (I also think she has a starting speed advantage considering she follows a massive scaling chain and is arguably near the top of said scaling chain, but I don't know what Wukong's looks like).

Are the ability cards restricted for Youmu? If not, then those gives her even more options to snag a victory. If they are, then it'd probably depends on a few factors.

Wukong, at least on his profile, is stated to act cocky and impulsive. I don't think he'd aim to finish the fight as soon as it starts especially since (according to what I've seen here) both parties are honorable people. I can see the fight prolonging enough for Youmu to eventually surpass Wukong. Youmu also isn't shy from bombarding others with hundreds of bullets.

Overall, I'm leaning towards Youmu so I'm voting for Youmu. Though, really, his dumb cloning is the main thing that makes me hesitant

Only the feats for the scrolls and spacetimes are equalized, not their stats. Thing is, Wukong is capable of destroying countless spacetimes while he is holding back. When he stops holding back, he is capable of one shotting characters doing such feats

Wukong's speed is faster than characters who percieved other characters with infinite speed as frozen. Not only that, he can amplify his speed further with his nimbus cloud

Wukong was only cocky because he was highly angry, focused on one person I believe. Other than that, he should be pretty smart in fights overall

 

[Sdjlakjh]

You know that asking for this type of direct information is prohibited on vsbattle, right?

It says it's only prohibited if there's no references. Thing is when the author said "beyond physical laws", he was only answering if the casts can escape a blackhole or no. Not only that, the writer himself said it was also to soldify their time travel abilities in season 4

Remember that the author himself said they operate beyond physical laws, nobody asked him directly if they are. So no direct asking information applies here

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

What is this thread

 

[Sdjlakjh]

What is this thread

It used to be a vsthread and then it became a discussion if it's legal to simp the touhou loli or no

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Is there a common consensus on who's faster or is that a non-factor? Cause I've been seeing Youmu's scaling chain be talked about way more and I think it's larger if I remember what I've seen last about it

 

[Angelzewolf]

Only the feats for the scrolls and spacetimes are equalized, not their stats. Thing is, Wukong is capable of destroying countless spacetimes while he is holding back. When he stops holding back, he is capable of one shotting characters doing such feats

I wasn't equalizing their stats (though didn't OP mention he was making their AP the same?), I was wondering if we were equalizing their energy systems. Since, again, in Touhou, the spirit manip also weakens the target and as Youmu absorbs spirit, she also becomes stronger. Aka, Wukong gets weaker during the fight while Youmu gets stronger.

Wukong's speed is faster than characters who percieved other characters with infinite speed as frozen. Not only that, he can amplify his speed further with his nimbus cloud

Going off the profiles, Cirno has infinite speed and Youmu drastically upscale above her. I don't think Touhou has a scene of a character statuing another character, but Marisa is faster than Cirno, and Aya blitzes Marisa. Youmu downscales from Aya as she could briefly overwhelm her with her speed. Basically—

Aya >> [speed blitz] Marisa > Cirno = Infinite speed (with Youmu being between Aya and Marisa). That's ignoring other characters that can fill said gaps or how much more powerful Marisa is than Cirno. So, I don't think Wukong is gonna be speedblitzing. Though I guess the speed, on a surface level, is fairly even. But again, depends on the actual scaling chain—

Wukong was only cocky because he was highly angry, focused on one person I believe. Other than that, he should be pretty smart in fights overall

I'm just going off the profile. You can be smart and cocky. Wukong can be smart in combat, and still falter on occasion due to his behavior. But it's listed as a weakness, so I'm taking it into account.

Again, the main advantage I see Wukong having is his cloning which, I think, shouldn't be too bad since Youmu has the range to strike multiple foes at once and maintain distance. (I'm going to assume her player system cards are restricted.)

 

[Sdjlakjh]

Only the feats for the scrolls and spacetimes are equalized, not their stats. Thing is, Wukong is capable of destroying countless spacetimes while he is holding back. When he stops holding back, he is capable of one shotting characters doing such feats

Wukong's speed is faster than characters who percieved other characters with infinite speed as frozen. Not only that, he can amplify his speed further with his nimbus cloud

Wukong was only cocky because he was highly angry, focused on one person I believe. Other than that, he should be pretty smart in fights overall

@Ruler_Star_Kuma I elaborated on the speed part in second paragraph

 

[Sdjlakjh]

I wasn't equalizing their stats (though didn't OP mention he was making their AP the same?), I was wondering if we were equalizing their energy systems. Since, again, in Touhou, the spirit manip also weakens the target and as Youmu absorbs spirit, she also becomes stronger. Aka, Wukong gets weaker during the fight while Youmu gets stronger.



Going off the profiles, Cirno has infinite speed and Youmu drastically upscale above her. I don't think Touhou has a scene of a character statuing another character, but Marisa is faster than Cirno, and Aya blitzes Marisa. Youmu downscales from Aya as she could briefly overwhelm her with her speed. Basically—

Aya >> [speed blitz] Marisa > Cirno = Infinite speed (with Youmu being between Aya and Marisa). That's ignoring other characters that can fill said gaps. So, I don't think Wukong is gonna be speedblitzing. Though I guess the speed, on a surface level, is fairly even.



I'm just going off the profile. You can be smart and cocky. Wukong can be smart in combat, and still falter on occasion due to his behavior. But it's listed as a weakness, so I'm taking it into account.

Again, the main advantage I see Wukong having is his cloning which, I think, shouldn't be too bad since Youmu has the range to strike multiple foes at once and maintain distance. (I'm going to assume her player system cards are restricted.)

Not equalizing AP, but only feats. Pretty sure with Wukong's combative smarts, he would instantly noticed the start Youmu punched him and would focus on ranged attacks like his heat vision or staff or clone spam as he has experienced with people that can absorb souls like XiangLiu or absorb powers like Macaque and Lady Bone Demon

I think statued someone is higher than blitzing someone. Wukong with Nimbus Cloud > Wukong Full Power > Wukong Holding Back > MK > (statued) Peng > Mei = infinite speed

Well Wukong only gets cocky if you make him angry by targeting his close ones like his student MK

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Youmu has power null and wukong doesn't resist that on his profile with that said power null being apart of the item that gives her another form of soul manip, how does that go?

Edit: Or I should ask, how does that item work in specific? If her soul absorption is a good way for her to win (and her skill comparatively to others on a chain is insane), using that in tandem or one after another could potentially be another wincon?

 

[Sdjlakjh]

Youmu has power null and wukong doesn't resist that on his profile with that said power null being apart of the item that gives her another form of soul manip, how does that go?

Edit: Or I should ask, how does that item work in specific? If her soul absorption is a good way for her to win (and her skill comparatively to others on a chain is insane), using that in tandem or one after another could potentially be another wincon?

How does her power null work again? Hm I think you could argue Wukong has power null resist via upscaling from Macaque that could steal people's powers but except him (possibly maybe)

 

[Angelzewolf]

Not equalizing AP, but only feats. Pretty sure with Wukong's combative smarts, he would instantly noticed the start Youmu punched him and would focus on ranged attacks like his heat vision or staff or clone spam as he has experienced with people that can absorb souls like XiangLiu or absorb powers like Macaque and Lady Bone Demon

If he turns it into a battle of range, then I'd lean even MORE towards Youmu. I'm pretty sure her bullets has the same effects as her physical attacks. So, all he'd be doing is pushing the fight into something more common in Gensokyo and giving space for the opponent who can fire hundreds of bullets, without including her phantom. I don't think any of his ranged attacks would be as potent as Youmu's.

I think statued someone is higher than blitzing someone. Wukong with Nimbus Cloud > Wukong Full Power > Wukong Holding Back > MK > (statued) Peng > Mei = infinite speed

Maybe? Though his chain is... pretty small, tbh. Even if statue is ranked higher, I think the size and gap created within the Touhou scaling chain would make Youmu as fast, or even faster than Wukong. Especially when you factor in her time slow field.

Well Wukong only gets cocky if you make him angry by targeting his close ones like his student MK

I'm... not understanding the correlation between those two things... if that's the case, shouldn't it be mentioned in his weakness section? (Unless I missed it as I am at work).

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

How does her power null work again? Hm I think you could argue Wukong has power null resist via upscaling from Macaque that could steal people's powers but except him (possibly maybe)

That's power absorption, not nullification.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Also, Youmu has Matsuyoi-Reflecting Satellite Slash to absurdly increase her range.

 

[Sdjlakjh]

If he turns it into a battle of range, then I'd lean even MORE towards Youmu. I'm pretty sure her bullets has the same effects as her physical attacks. So, all he'd be doing is pushing the fight into something more common in Gensokyo and giving space for the opponent who can fire hundreds of bullets, without including her phantom. I don't think any of his ranged attacks would be as potent as Youmu's.



Maybe? Though his chain is... pretty small, tbh. Even if statue is ranked higher, I think the size and gap created within the Touhou scaling chain would make Youmu as fast, or even faster than Wukong. Especially when you factor in her time slow field.



I'm... not understanding the correlation between those two things... if that's the case, shouldn't it be mentioned in his weakness section? (Unless I missed it as I am at work).

Well thing is, his own clones can create it's own clones. Pretty sure it was shown at season 1 that a mere student of Wukong who just knew how to make clones, capable of making at the same quantity of hundreds or possibly higher

Hm could you elaborate on her speed chain further then?

Might be changed later

 

[Sdjlakjh]

That's power absorption, not nullification.

When Macaque absorbs someone power, it nulifies their abilties/power entirely. Even if you don't buy that, Lady Bone Demon who has power nulification, didn't used it on Wukong (possibly because he was immune, same reason why Macaque doesn't use his power steal on Wukong)

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

When Macaque absorbs someone power, it nulifies their abilties/power entirely. Even if you don't buy that, Lady Bone Demon who has power nulification, didn't used it on Wukong (possibly because he was immune, same reason why Macaque doesn't use his power steal on Wukong)

No duh for the first part because their powers are STOLEN.

And show me an example of L.B.D's power null (not that it's even on his profile for a resistance anyway so can't be used) but I just wanna see it anyway

 

[Angelzewolf]

Well thing is, his own clones can create it's own clones. Pretty sure it was shown at season 1 that a mere student of Wukong who just knew how to make clones, capable of making at the same quantity of hundreds or possibly higher

Never watched the show, so I'm just going based off of the page. If he can make near endless clones, then yeah... THAT'S problematic depending on how the clones work.

Hm could you elaborate on her speed chain further then?

Might be changed later

Sure. Though I am at work, so I can't at the moment. I'll send something later, unless someone beats me to it.

 

[Speedblitzer50]

Youmu can move so fast that she sees his opponents as paralyzed, using Voidness Sword "Slash Clearing the Six Senses"

From what she can see as paralyzed other characters of infinite speed

 

[Not_Icarus]

It's still funny to me how even though when Macaque power nulled/absorbed MK. MK just randomly got it back after he tried harder lol

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Macaque doesn't have power nullification on his profile either

Both the power null for him (Macaque) and L.B.D you describe just look like showings of their power absorption, the power absorption video 'scan' for the latter being right after the portion of the power null video scan to describe she just got stronger thanks to M.K using more power.

Edit: And Youmu's power null isn't power absorption (spell breaking drug) also is poison it looks like which Wukong also doesn't show to resist on his profile.

 

[Not_Icarus]

I was about to say that Sun Wukong has no resistance to poison but then I remembered that him and the gang was unaffected by the Scorpion Queens' scorpions



Time slow has more chances to work on him even though he has resistance to space-time in his profile

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Macaque doesn't have power nullification on his profile either

Still close enough

• Statistics Reduction and Power Absorption (Casually removed all of MK's powers and absorbed them all)

Edit: And Youmu's power null isn't power absorption (spell breaking drug) also is poison it looks like which Wukong also doesn't show to resist on his profile.

Wukong has Non Standard Breathing due to being able to breath in space (and resist cosmic radiation) for an extanded amount of time. Can't he just hold his breath and avoid breathing the poison?

 

[Not_Icarus]

Again, the main advantage I see Wukong having is his cloning which, I think, shouldn't be too bad since Youmu has the range to strike multiple foes at once and maintain distance. (I'm going to assume her player system cards are restricted.)

That and Sun Wukong equalizes the battlefield by nuking the danmaku away plus spawning chains around her to imprison her which allows Sun Wukong to either kill or seal her

 

[Not_Icarus]

Poison isn't about holding your breath, it's a circulatory problem in the body. Although you could argue more with his biological resistance rather than his space capabilities.

Also the peaches of immortality which are normally fatally poisonous to people as Sun Wukong says that the peaches would kill him if he wasn't immortal

 

[Angelzewolf]

Speed scaling chain for Youmu

Youmu [potential speed blitz since Aya briefly struggled to keep track of her moments] > Sanae > [Speed Blitz] Marisa > ¿Reisen? > Clownpiece > Cirno (strongest fairy excluding Clown and Wriggle) > Lily White (deemed a threat compared to basic fairies) > Moon Rabbits > Basic fairies (Possibly rating, but they don't change much anyway if you remove em) = Infinite

Ignoring how some of the characters had gotten more powerful since the initial infinite speed feat and the scaling chain missing many characters. It's probably not 100% accurate since I'm going purely off the top of my head. And excluding Remilia, who is probably faster than Sanae and, imo, slower than Youmu.

A more knowledgeable scaler could definitely give a more concise and expansive list. And just like Wukong, she can also amp herself, I believe.

That and Sun Wukong equalizes the battlefield by nuking the danmaku away plus spawning chains around her to imprison her which allows Sun Wukong to either kill or seal her

Youmu has multiple ways of avoiding the chains. Moving is one of them or creating shockwaves to knock them away. He can try nuking the danmaku, but that'd barely matter since she can just continue bombarding without rest and, frankly, even if only one hit him per volley, it will eventually stack up as it continues draining him. (And maybe amp herself?)

Wukongs best chance is close quarter combat which comes with some more advantages for Youmu, like being able to weaken him and amp herself with her hits.

Personally, I think I'll stick with voting for Youmu. God I wish her profile was more up to date.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Personally, I think I'll stick with voting for Youmu.
God I wish her profile was more up to date.

Same both on voting and wishing her profile was up to date

Cast me for the Youmu vote

 

[Not_Icarus]

Votes are 5/5 then

Sun Wukong has more advantages than Yomu in close quarters since she's more likely to be on the defensive due to the chains spawning right next to her plus the clones can also just self destruct to give Sun Wukong even more means of aoe and fighting Yomu's aoe. The staff nuking is spammable so danmaku isn't that constant or an issue for Sun Wukong

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Sun Wukong has more advantages than Yomu in close quarters since she's more likely to be on the defensive due to the chains spawning right next to her plus the clones can also just self destruct to give Sun Wukong even more means of aoe and fighting Yomu's aoe. The staff nuking is spammable so danmaku isn't that constant or an issue for Sun Wukong

Not only that, but can't Wukong just pull this off?

• Power Nullification (Limited a portion of MK's powers)

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

They both (as I see it) don't have resistance to power nullification

 

[Lloydblitzed]

They both (as I see it) don't have resistance to power nullification

MK, who has the same powers as Wukong, can recover his power throught sheer willpower tho. So u can argue Wukong can counter it

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Spell-breaking drug (from what I see) is also contact based btw

 

[AigerTheKing]

Monkey King FRA

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

MK, who has the same powers as Wukong, can recover his power throught sheer willpower tho. So u can argue Wukong can counter it

Again, power absorption is not power nullification

Two different powers, power null and absorption have the same scan on MK's profile (which it looks to be that SAME power absorption)

 

[Deidalius]

I will read the thread and comment on who wins based on which arguments seem more convincing.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Votes are now 6/5

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Again, power absorption is not power nullification

Two different powers, power null and absorption have the same scan on MK's profile (which it looks to be that SAME power absorption)

Mind you again, NONE of that is on wukong's profile

 

[AigerTheKing]

Again, power absorption is not power nullification

Two different powers, power null and absorption have the same scan on MK's profile (which it looks to be that SAME power absorption)

How is this Power Absorption?

"I know a way to limit your powers so you can learn to control them but...you won't be...invincible anymore"

 

[AigerTheKing]

Mind you again, NONE of that is on wukong's profile

Fr

• Power Nullification (Limited a portion of MK's powers)

 

[Not_Icarus]

MK and Sun Wukong share the same powers and source and aren't fully updated but I can agree at least that power null is useable but with some arguments that it isn't ending the fight