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Sun wukong/Journey to the west CRT

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Immortalgodd said:
He has a statement of altering the stars and the planets. This may as well be the closest thing to a feat he has tbh aside from growing ten thousand feets or shaking mountains in his battle against Ne Zha. Then again in ch 33 he was pinned down by three mountains unable to move.
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A travia about this: The three mountain thing could be interrupted as three concepts, and Sun Wukong is finally suppressed by Mount Tai could be interrupted as Emperor Power's victory (if Sun Wukong is set as casually lift the Mount Tai, it could be politically incorrect at that time and banned in China... well, ancient China, given that how Mount Tai is often refered as in ancient China)
 
Wealth and honour, glory and fame,
Are predetermined by fate:
No one should act against conscience to covet any of them.
Far-going and deep
Are the good results of true enlightenment and loyalty.
Heaven punishes all wild and wicked deeds
If not at once then later on.
Ask the Lord of the East the reason why
Disasters now strike him.
It is because his ambition was high, his plans far-reaching,
He did not respect authority, and he smashed convention.

The story goes on to tell how the Great Sage Equaling Heaven was escorted by the hosts of heavenly soldiers to the Demon-beheading Tower and tied to the Demon-subduing Pillar. They hacked at him with sabres, sliced at him with axes, lunged at him with spears and cut at him with swords, but they were unable to inflict a single wound on him. The Southern Dipper angrily ordered all the gods of the Department of Fire to set him alight and burn him up, but he would not ignite. He told the gods of the Department of Thunder to nail splinters of thunder into him, but however hard they tried they could not harm a hair of his body. The Strong-arm Demon King and the rest of them then reported this to the throne.

“Your Majesty,” they said, “this Great Sage has learned somewhere or other how to protect himself by magic.
 
From what I can name off the top of my head right now: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Martial Arts, Acrobatics, Genius Intelligence, Social Influencing, Stealth Mastery, Enhanced Senses, Extrasensory Perception, Self Sustenance types 1 and 2, Immortality (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, can regenerate, erased his name off the book of death, can still fight when reduced to his soul, has resurrections for his 72 transformations), Regeneration (Mid, regenerated his head when a very special weapon from a god managed to decapitate him), Pain resistance, Invulnerability (most weapons cannot harm him, even mystical weapons used by demons bent and broke on his body), Resistance to Immortality Negation (Nothing the gods could do could kill him, survived in the furnace made to kill gods and immortals), Sleep Manipulation, Water Manipulation, Telekinesis, Invisibility, Duplication, shapeshifting, and Size Manipulation (Can create clones of himself from the hairs on his body and they can all grow in size and shapeshift like him, can turn into buildings, animals, monsters, people, and increase the number of limbs he has), animal communication, Forcefield Creation (Can create an invisible barrier by drawing a circle), Resistance to fire, can summon deities, can magically unlock any lock, Flight, Energy Manipulation, Paralysis, Resistance to magic (And all of this is just for his first key, there's still the second. I must say that he has to be one of the most versatile characters in fiction).
 
Picture it, an army of thousands of giant, invisible, multi armed, immortal, and nigh invulnerable monkey ninjas who can shapeshift, shoot energy attacks, fly, put you to sleep, regenerate, and fight as souls. The only way I can imagine defeating him would be with incredibly powerful BFR/Sealing or Existence Erasure.
 
I think Sun Wukong should have at least Mid-High reg. Since his reg is mainly from his shapeshifting and he can shapeshift himself to mist and shapeshift back, so.
 
Frieza_force_soldier_100 said:
Picture it, an army of thousands of giant, invisible, multi armed, immortal, and nigh invulnerable monkey ninjas who can shapeshift, shoot energy attacks, fly, put you to sleep, regenerate, and fight as souls. The only way I can imagine defeating him would be with incredibly powerful BFR/Sealing or Existence Erasure.
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Maybe that's why he tend not to use one of these skills against monsters unless there is "solid" reason to convince audience. He has too many plot-convince skills. Don't forget Sun Wukong can do Bullet Hell stuff and counter them.
 
You know that you still didn't bring any good reason for "infinite power" aka High 3-A you say.

Second, you still haven't posted all the quotes regarding different time-spaces.

Third, you still haven't brough up the 3-A feat or 2-A as the one you brought and I too - "Infinite realms" doesn't denote its full universe, it can be just a planet, lesss than one, maybe a solar system, maybe a galaxy, or just a simple dimension, or a pocket reality or maybe higher. Without a clear statement, the feat is good as not even being used.

Immortal Godd rating is the beast as it has a feat, a backing behind his statement.

Downgrades doesn't mean anything bad.. It means more accuracy if you can't find anything better.
 
Zaratthustra said:
You know that you still didn't bring any good reason for "infinite power" aka High 3-A you say.

Second, you still haven't posted all the quotes regarding different time-spaces.

Third, you still haven't brough up the 3-A feat or 2-A as the one you brought and I too - "Infinite realms" doesn't denote its full universe, it can be just a planet, lesss than one, maybe a solar system, maybe a galaxy, or just a simple dimension, or a pocket reality or maybe higher. Without a clear statement, the feat is good as not even being used.

Immortal Godd rating is the beast as it has a feat, a backing behind his statement.

Downgrades doesn't mean anything bad.. It means more accuracy if you can't find anything better.
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the 2A feat is debunked and high 3A is just a high ball

infinite realm was also debunked

and i dont really mind the downgrade in tier
 
Even with a downgrade in tier, his sheer versatality and immortality make him one of the most difficult to defeat characters in fiction. Only haxy opponents should be able to defeat him, unless they are from a higher existence. Also, as said, his regeneration being downgraded doesn't really matter much since even if his body is killed, his soul can fight.
 
Frieza_force_soldier_100 said:
Even with a downgrade in tier, his sheer versatality and immortality make him one of the most difficult to defeat characters in fiction. Only haxy opponents should be able to defeat him, unless they are from a higher existence. Also, as said, his regeneration being downgraded doesn't really matter much since even if his body is killed, his soul can fight.
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i think he is one hell of a character that can kill celexus with large size type 8 and duality manipulation
 
I'd like to suggest Sun Wukong speed being in immesureable. He can travel across timezone-timelesszone or timezone-timezone as I proved above. It applies to all gods.

I'm sorry to hear that Wukong's Tier will be downgraded and I wonder what's his new tier.
 
agreed and the addition of law manipulation, social influencing, minor toonforce, invulnerability due to all heavenly weapons and powers failed to deal with his tampered body even when they have durability negating properties
 
I suddenly feel that the downgraded Sun Wukong is like Death Battle version of Dracula: Has at least universal-level stored enegry while attack strength is not universal level.

Sadly I cannot access original text now, because I found evidence to prove Wukong's knowing of future things. (Since I have said this, it means that I can find it in original text.)

Also, can anyone look at my evidence of his resistance to fate stuff?
 
Mariogoods said:
I suddenly feel that the downgraded Sun Wukong is like Death Battle version of Dracula: Has at least universal-level stored enegry while attack strength is not universal level.

Sadly I cannot access original text now, because I found evidence to prove Wukong's knowing of future things. (Since I have said this, it means that I can find it in original text.)

Also, can anyone look at my evidence of his resistance to fate stuff?
Click to expand...
That was already proven by me
 
Just some extra abilities that should be added

Beyond dimension existence type 0(is transcendent and exist beyond time and space as a whole)
Law manipulation (check reply #292)
Matter , spatial , time , void , life , death , elemental and concept manipulation as a byproduct of manipulating , creating or destroying duality. Or in other words scaling to pangu.
Social influencing
Resistance to fear and Madness manipulation
 
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Danmaku is fine.

Wukong physically removed his name from the registry, not by being immune to fate. If a character actively warped his fate, he wouldn't be able to not be affected. So no resistance to fate with that one. The second fate statement is them claiming that one shouldn't attempt to overachieve, and then their attempt to make fate happen was to whack the dude with weapons. I would rather say that they themselves see their standing as superior - as they are the ones that make fate happen, "if not at once, later".

Light stuff is alright.

That thing about gods in no way seems like proof for "make gods sharing the same name to the gods in religious unable to defeat him", at all, no matter how I read it.

Wukong still had to learn his abilities and how to use them. He learned what they can do and was more skilled, sure, but not everyone could replicate his abilities regardless just by virtue of power. Likewise, he doesn't show every power of every other character, either. Ki exists in Dragon Ball, but not all abilities are innate to it, and you would need proof that the ones in question are.

Duality stuff is alright, but his void manip is the current chaos manipulation he has, and the two are effectively the same in this context. Except, I don't think they ever actively make others not exist, only themselves?

Sleep Insects are fine.

Immunity to Durability Negation is not a thing. You cannot be immune to all of it, only sub-powers you have shown to be immune to.

I already said my thing about immortality negation (the one thing claimed to negate it, would have, had he not evaded its effects), pain resistance (it is tolerance, resistance is the ability to not be inflicted with pain), and most of the other stuff. I would personally assume his cloud walking comes from, well, his "Cloud-Stepping Boots".
 
On an unrelated note, no. No, he really is not anywhere near one of the most versatile I'm afraid. He's definitely in the "hax over power", but his non-buddha self is definitely nothing to lose ones mind over. His Buddha self is up there though.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Danmaku is fine.

Wukong physically removed his name from the registry, not by being immune to fate. If a character actively warped his fate, he wouldn't be able to not be affected. So no resistance to fate with that one. The second fate statement is them claiming that one shouldn't attempt to overachieve, and then their attempt to make fate happen was to whack the dude with weapons. I would rather say that they themselves see their standing as superior - as they are the ones that make fate happen, "if not at once, later".

Light stuff is alright.

That thing about gods in no way seems like proof for "make gods sharing the same name to the gods in religious unable to defeat him", at all, no matter how I read it.

Wukong still had to learn his abilities and how to use them. He learned what they can do and was more skilled, sure, but not everyone could replicate his abilities regardless just by virtue of power. Likewise, he doesn't show every power of every other character, either. Ki exists in Dragon Ball, but not all abilities are innate to it, and you would need proof that the ones in question are.

Duality stuff is alright, but his void manip is the current chaos manipulation he has, and the two are effectively the same in this context. Except, I don't think they ever actively make others not exist, only themselves?

Sleep Insects are fine.

Immunity to Durability Negation is not a thing. You cannot be immune to all of it, only sub-powers you have shown to be immune to.

I already said my thing about immortality negation (the one thing claimed to negate it, would have, had he not evaded its effects), pain resistance (it is tolerance, resistance is the ability to not be inflicted with pain), and most of the other stuff. I would personally assume his cloud walking comes from, well, his "Cloud-Stepping Boots".
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I believe the resistance to fate was when wukong is registered In the record of eternal life where he is no longer bound to the wheel of rebirth
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
On an unrelated note, no. No, he really is not anywhere near one of the most versatile I'm afraid. He's definitely in the "hax over power", but his non-buddha self is definitely nothing to lose ones mind over. His Buddha self is up there though.
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Beyond dimension existence type 0(is transcendent and exist beyond time and space as a whole)
Law manipulation (check reply #292)
social influencing
resistance to fear and Madness (JTTW's mind manipulation includes fear and Madness)
 
That is type 5 immortality. He was removed from the cycle of life and death.

BDE type 0 is alright, "A law flowing silent and deep" is not really law manipulation here as what they are describing is not law manipulation, I already said my bit about social influencing (he is not that charismatic at all. Social influencing is more for mid-battle distractions and such, not your ability to lie. Beyond saying he did it to gods - majority of which is nothing to gawk at as far as social skills go - there isn't much extraordinary things he did through sheer misdirection.)

Madness Manipulation type 2, and Fear Manipulation done through Mind Manipulation, are both resisted through Mind Manipulation resistance. Same way as resistance to heat means you resist fire.
 
If they were infinite of realms like Dragon Palace then they won't be universe sized or planet sized. So, Buddha should be at most 3A. While the pre Buddhahood key should be tiered from Shaking the mountains. I would have him scale to his own statements but we have later on been shown that he can't deal with mountain + based attacks. That is if we take the feat as shown rather than try to interpret what it meant on ancient china politics.
 
@Immortalgodd If we try to interpret what it means in ancient china, wouldn't the feats be way weaker than how it is shown? iirc a Buddhist universe is actually way smaller than the irl one, below 3-A.
 
I guess it's less versatality and more about how unique and quirky his ability set is. Invisibility, duplication, shapeshifting, size manipulation, flight, cloud walking, limb multiplication, dimensional travel with his cloud. It's rare you see a character with all of those at once. He may not be especially powerful compared to other characters in his tier, but his varied arsenal and great fighting skill make up for it. His only major flaw is his overconfidence. If he were to go all out and use all his abilities to their fullest extents, he would be incredibly dangerous. In a bloodlusted match, I'd argue he'd be incredibly difficult even for people much stronger than him. There's also his immortality. Only something like Existence Erasure can destroy him, and even than you have to get all of his individual hairs left behind so they don't regenerate into clones of him.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
That is type 5 immortality. He was removed from the cycle of life and death.

BDE type 0 is alright, "A law flowing silent and deep" is not really law manipulation here as what they are describing is not law manipulation, I already said my bit about social influencing (he is not that charismatic at all. Social influencing is more for mid-battle distractions and such, not your ability to lie. Beyond saying he did it to gods - majority of which is nothing to gawk at as far as social skills go - there isn't much extraordinary things he did through sheer misdirection.)

Madness Manipulation type 2, and Fear Manipulation done through Mind Manipulation, are both resisted through Mind Manipulation resistance. Same way as resistance to heat means you resist fire.
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Wealth and honour, glory and fame,
Are predetermined by fate:
No one should act against conscience to covet any of them.

It states here that all things were already predetermined by fate. Heck even people with immortality type 5 such as zhu bajie and Sha wujing were forced to reincarnate despite having type 1 and 5

We have heard how the Dyadic Models which manifest themselves in Heaven and Earth in the production of life are represented by images, whereas the invisible powers of the four seasons bring about transformation of things through the hidden action of heat and cold. By scanning Heaven and Earth, therefore, even the most ignorant may perceive their rudimentary laws. Even the thorough understanding of yin and yang, however, has seldom enabled the worthy and wise to comprehend fully their ultimate principle. It is easy to recognize that Heaven and Earth do contain yin and yang because there are images. It is difficult to comprehend fully how yin and yang pervade Heaven and Earth because the forces themselves are invisible. That images may manifest the minute is a fact that does not perplex even the foolish, whereas forms hidden in what is invisible are what confuses even the learned.

Also law manipulation seems to exist
 
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