Suika Downgrade, Cirno Upgrade

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yes, another Touhou thread, Shush.

Well first of all: Suika "Moon busting" feat isn't Moon level. It seems like it was put at this level because it SEEMED like moon busting, but it isn't. According to her own words

"

"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be somethin' up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more mind-blowin' than that. You can almost never see the real moon, 'cause its appearance is deadly to humans. You can only see the moon's reflection. And the things that make reflections, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? So since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, all you gotta do is tear the heavens apart!"

"

So, in short, Suika busted the heavens that reflect the Moon's light to the human eyes. But as you may know, in the Touhou verse, Heaven is pretty much in the clouds, not in space or something. Heck, to the Lunarians, heaven is still bound to the ground.

Not only that but to makes it seems like the Moon was exploding just to the inhabitants of Gensokyo, she would have needed to only bust the heavens above Gensokyo, which is small enough to fit inside Japan.

Heck, even if you assume she busted the heavens of all around the Earth, that would be Multi-Continent at best, not Moon.

Given that Suika and Yukari are above Utsuho, they should probably be downgraded to Multi-Continent now, unless this somehow makes Marisa's feats legit since that the Top tier no longer possess non-casual fetas but eh.

Now, for an upgrade to Cirno and everyone who scales from fodder, this calc.

Everyone is at leats Island now, except the Small Country and Multi-Continent peeps. Everyone except the God tiers and PC-98 are now limited to Tier 6.

 

[Promestein]

I don't have any problems with this.

 

[DontTalk]

I will check the calc in detail at the weekend, but it seems fine at first view.


About Suika:

Now the question really is how big is heaven. If heaven reflects the moon to earth wouldn't that mean that the heaven is above the moon? After all if it were below the moon it would hide the moon by reflecting its rays, right? So if that were the case one couldn't even see the reflection of the moon on earth.

If the heaven is on the other hand above the moon, than the part Suika destroyed should be equal or bigger than the moons real size shouldn't it?

Well, that's the theory at least.

Then again you're right that it would mean that the mountain is higher than the moon... So I guess not...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well, to be fair Heaven wouldn't reflet anything even if it was beyond the moon, since it's, y'know, a bunch of rocks.

 

[DontTalk]

Than again if there is literally a bunch of rock flying around it would be pretty dark on the ground. Gensokyos sky is weird...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The usual syndrome of Fiction: Above the Clouds it's a literal sea of cloud but below it's sunny as usual. Because Gensokyo makes totaly sense.

 

[Yamatohime]

Bhava Agra is called Heaven but it's not one where Deities resides. There are many levels of Heaven.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I honestly don't see any statements about there being multiple level of Heaven, not counting the moon.

 

[Yamatohime]

Netherworld, Bhava Agra... And Paradise.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Netherworld is another world completely than Earth, and I never heard the word Paradise in Touhou

 

[Yamatohime]

Like Netherworld, Bhava Agra connected to Earth. Shikieiki judgment can send you to Paradise (Xanadu probably). Bhava Agra additionaly connected to outside world somehow.

 

[Promestein]

There are different regions of Heaven; Bhavaagra is just one of them.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

It makes sense but at the same time, Yukari still has some of the more stellar feats such as manipulating dark-matter on a large scale and what not. Though Yamatohime makes sense on this, I doubt that's a multiverse, kidding kidding. But yeah I don't think these two are just moons.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well we would need feats for this, my dear CoB. Right now they are limited to being above things like Okuu. Her Anti-Matter manipulation is too vague right now, and idk if manipulatin Dark Matter is quantifiable.

@Yama & Prom

Well, the different regions are like right next to Bhavaagra, not above it or something.

 

[Aurugermil]

They probably have the same altitude albeit seperated. Netherworld is located on the top of Youkai Mountains, you need to find Border of Life and Death to enter it. The Border can be found in the sky.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well all of this only matters if Heaven exists on or beyond the moon, and as far as I know, Deities lives IN the lunar capital, not above so..

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

This is obvious.

Cirno is the strongest.

 

[Andykhang]

It makes sense but at the same time, Yukari still has some of the more stellar feats such as manipulating dark-matter on a large scale and what not. Though Yamatohime makes sense on this, I doubt that's a multiverse, kidding kidding. But yeah I don't think these two are just moons.

I am now interested in Yukari Dark Matter feat thing, never heard of it. Also, the multiverse thing might make sense, since there isn't a fixed size on the universe, and it could be said to be as ridiculously small like MIB's galaxies . Or it could be just an expression describing how the universe form in the Big Bang theory.

About the grade, though i support the Suika thing, the Cirno i find the need of doubt, since that mean Cirno have legitimate reason to considered herself "strongest" : )

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I mean everyone gets scaled to her, so she would still be weaaak. Compared to the verse that is.

 

[DontTalk]

Just on a small unrelated notice again, but could you guys please add the links to profiles you create to the verse page? We by now have a bunch that aren't listed on the verse page.

You don't have to insert pictures just add the links, ok?

 

[Yamatohime]

Well all of this only matters if Heaven exists on or beyond the moon, and as far as I know, Deities lives IN the lunar capital, not above so..

Not all Deities though. Some of them live completely on different planes.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Mind to tell me which ones, and what plane?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

So that means Island level insects? :^ )

Even with that it still seems likely that Yukari has higher level of power than that. I mean there was that debatable constellation feat, 2-D 3-D effects, crossing places with gaps despite restrictions, and being groggy yet a match for the Human Players. I mean sure it's danmaku and all but that still accounts for something. And hell this should make Marisa's planetary feat not an outlier anymore considering all things. Anyway point is, well the Phantasm Boss is still something and boundary manipulations and the other vague yet stellar feats are there.

Anyway, glad that Cirno is getting the attention she needs and would scale well with how she fought Okuu and Marisa. We're one step closer to 2-B Cirno who is the concept of the strongest!

@Dont Talk Once I get the time will try to do those now that I figured out how to do those. Comic sans forever

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Island level kawaii transgender firefly.

Yeah but bruh. Yukari is like the strongest thing in Gensokyo, and wields the "At least". What do you want her to be at? Without concrete anything she would stay here. (Although I do agree with Marisa's feat)

Also, actually, I've been digging like 1 MSS feat and a possible MSS one for the God tiers, making a thread about it right now.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Don't forget island level potatoes

Likely higher instead of At Least :^ )

In all seriousness I thought it didn't have that, but likely higher for the final boss-esque characters would make sense. And would scale well with Reimu too.

The Hecatia one from OBD? I recall it scaling with Junko too in all honesty.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Hecatia is Star level from being above literallt everything in the verse, even on this wiki.

Also I'm a bit iffy with scaling Reimu to final bosses.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I'd debate that about some other time, gonna wait for your other MSS thread in the mean time

Planetary Reimu? Would make sense considering how she's supposed to be better than Marisa. And yeah referring to Marise, not the final bosses themselves.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well a shit ton of people scales to Planet Marisa, but I'd be better discussing it in my other thread, wouldn't it? (Damn, that thread will have 4 upgrades in one...)

 

[Yamatohime]

Mind to tell me which ones, and what plane?

Dragon? Shinki?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Dragon is just..away. We don't know where, he just is.

Shinki is outright non-canon, and dwells in the Makai, a place she made herself (And isn't anything like heaven).

 

[Andykhang]

Planet Marisa? Would that mean the Wakasaki sisters (or the twin haxx) get raised again? But they didn't do anything planetary... but Marisa would probably lose to them...