Strongest 7-A Match 45 (Vandalieu Vs. Lain Tendou)

[YungManzi]

Vandalieu


Vs.

Lain Tendou


1) Speed is always equal, unless the two characters fighting are in the same tier of speed naturally.

2) SBA applies.

3) Most powerful/resourceful 7-A versions

Vand: (XDrag, Ricsi, DT, Goku)

Lain:

Inconclusive:

Bracket

 

[DontTalkDT]

Vandalieu should have this due to Lain's lack of resistance to mind attacks.
Let me explain: Vandalieu has a skill called mental encroachment. Using this skill Vandalieu can mind control others. The way this works is that he can either do specific movements, produce specific sounds or create objects looking specific ways and anyone that perceives those things is mind-controlled.
He can essentially create images or sounds that have Type 3 Madness Manipulation, except that instead of just madness Vandalieu can let it have any mental effect he wants.
This skill hence has no range in the normal sense. If the opponent can perceive the images/sounds created, the will have its effect regardless of the distance from Vandalieu. In its nature, one could call it similar to Weather Reports Subliminal Messages.
This is also not merely conjuncture. Vandalieu has painted pictures on the roof of his city using this skill, for the purpose of deterring people outside the universe from viewing it via Clairvoyance.
Another noteworthy thing is that it is also not necessary to percieve the images/sound in question first hand. One character, The 'Venus' Kanako to be specific, once used her special ability to implant her memories into other people, to implant an opponent with her memory of seeing one of Vandalieu's Mental Encrochment Images. The opponent in response suffered mental damage just from remembering the image, despite never having personally seen one.

Where I'm going with this is that Lain's Type 9 Immortality will not protect her from Mental Encroachment.
Vandalieu is prone to start with this skill anyways and due to the Abyss skill, he would be aware that a Lain sits in another dimension and views them, making that possibility a certainty.
So Vandalieu can finish this fight very quickly.

Aside from that it should be further noted that Vandalieu has another kind of passive mind control on Vampires. While that won't affect the main body due to the distance, it essentially brainwashes all the clones and that way prevents Lain from really doing much of anything against Van, before he takes her out with Mental Encroachment.

 

[XDragnoir]

The fact Mind hax is useful in 7A (or any other tier, actually) scares me a bit.

Anyway, Vandalieu FRA.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Van fra.

I was wondering whether I'd need to argue him or Lain against Han. It's a bit relieving I guess, though it'd been a nice debate. Or will be, maybe, probably.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Also, since it is obviously going to come up, Lain's control over the system of her own world does not translate to control over Van's own system.

 

[XDragnoir]

Why do LNs use the concept of systems so much? And why the protag always has something broken outside the system or every single broken power inside the system?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Also, since it is obviously going to come up, Lain's control over the system of her own world does not translate to control over Van's own system.

At this point, Van can act independent from his own worlds system anyways. He's been using his stuff in universes with other systems and Zuruwan said that even if you would reincarnate his soul in a universe without magic he would likely keep his death magic.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Why do LNs use the concept of systems so much? And why the protag always has something broken outside the system or every single broken power inside the system?

Systems are on one hand an easy to understand framework for the reader (due to being like video games) and on the other hand a convenient explanation as for why the stuff in the other world is so different.
And characters usually have some cheat skills, because there needs to be some explanation as to why Protagonist-kun is able to have a special position in this world.

Death Mage is one of the less bad example of the tropes, though. At least in my opinion.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Indeed, Protagonist-kun is always very special.

But yeah, systems are a very easy concept to understand that are a trend, and give the framework for a lot of versatility with abilities you grant.

It just gets annoying when a writer can't keep track of what their characters can do.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Also, is it me or is her speed rating coming from the definition of aim dodging (or blocking as it may be)?

 

[Gemstic]

The whole 'system' thing in Instant Death is actually much more complex than what you see in most novels (there's multiple systems at work, and their existence is due to plot reasons, not just for the sake of making it easier to understand for the readers). Besides, the protagonist of the series never needed a 'cheat skill' in the first place (and yes, he didn't get any skill at all).

Anyways, coming to the battle here, isn't this going to end up as inconclusive?

[The reasons mentioned don't work in this case according to DT.]

 

[DontTalkDT]

There's a lot I could say about that. However, to make it short: By SBA you don't need to kill the opponent to win. Forcing them to stop fighting suffices.
So yeah, since no mind manip resistance is currently on the profile Van can do exactly that via mind manip.

 

[Gemstic]

Yeah, Vandalieu should have the advantage in that case.

 

[PhantomØ4]

it is beyond me how someone could physically move their sword fast enough to fend of dozens of beams of light without being near Light-speed, but anyways, there’s other Relativistic+ showings on the verse anyways.

Anyways. In character, Lain sends clones of her avatar body created by her regeneration skill due to her low-offensive specs compared to other sages, these clones have no direct connection to her main body. There is also the thing that if any of her clones were to see Van she could induce charm or take grasp of his soul and paralyze him, her skill being superior to Yuuki’s domination which could have enslaved the world’s population over time.

I’m not sure how one would translate the system stuff since some systems can interact with others, but you have multiple reincarnators that met different gods and got cheat systems being resisted by ones with the normal system and vise-versa. The invincibility army is a prefect example of resistances within the system translating to others.

albeit I do agree with power-null in the sense of restricting Van’s power not working as it did not work with a Hero and a sage but that’s different that having control of the system and having granted yourself resistance basically.

Does SBA not say that the opponent must be forced to stop fighting for a prologued period of time anyways? How long do these status work.

 

[PhantomØ4]

I typed more than I thought. Mb.

 

[DontTalkDT]

In character, Lain sends clones of her avatar body created by her regeneration skill due to her low-offensive specs compared to other sages, these clones have no direct connection to her main body.

The clones get mind-controlled by Van's passive mind manip and them having no direct to the main body is irrelevant. If the main body knows what's going on during the battle she's susceptible to mental encroachment.

There is also the thing that if any of her clones were to see Van she could induce charm or take grasp of his soul and paralyze him, her skill being superior to Yuuki’s domination which could have enslaved the world’s population over time.

Enslaving the world's population over time doesn't mean much. Over time Van could do the same. Soooo... basically Van just resists all of that. Due to the passive mind control of Vandalieu her clones don't get as far as doing any of that anyways.

Does SBA not say that the opponent must be forced to stop fighting for a prologued period of time anyways? How long do these status work.

The Mind Control is permanent.

 

[Ionliosite]

The fact Mind hax is useful in 7A (or any other tier, actually) scares me a bit.

Mind hax is basically the single most useful hax, no matter the tier.

 

[YungManzi]

Also, is it me or is her speed rating coming from the definition of aim dodging (or blocking as it may be)?

Yeah, this was discussed before. It would indeed be aim dodging if it wasn't for the fact that there were many light beams, enough to be called a wall of light meade up of individual beams of light. Not just one or even two beams.

So Relativistic+ is actually a lowball, and the narration is the author not knowing how fast their character would be based on the feat.


It's like one of those statements where you have dragon ball characters being impressed by surpassing the speed of light, when based on feats they're obviously way faster than something like that.

 

[XDragnoir]

Mind hax is basically the single most useful hax, no matter the tier.

I was talking more about the top 5 strongest than anything else, what scares me the is that contenders for a spot in the top 5 not having resistance to the most basic hax. And it being the most useful? I disagree, smurf hax is much harder to resist, and plot hax can do the same things and is even more rare.

 

[YungManzi]

Daily reminder that Vat should have won against Lain, and she would have done way better against Vandy.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I was talking more about the top 5 strongest than anything else, what scares me the is that contenders for a spot in the top 5 not having resistance to the most basic hax.

Those amongst the contenders that don't resist it usually have something like hiding in a pocket dimension abilities, which circumvent the need for that in most cases. Mental Encroachment is just kinda special for not caring about that.
(And Kumoko should probably have mind hax resistance...)

It would indeed be aim dodging if it wasn't for the fact that there were many light beams

We really need Massively Hypersonic Touma

 

[XDragnoir]

Well, ichigo has a relativistic feat for blocking 21 MHS+ attacks with his sword. So i see no problem with Touma being FTL+ in reaction and combat speed, and Tsuchimikado being twice that for stomping Touma. OVO.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Alright then. I think it'd be better to link the other feats as backup, but I'll take it. I do know a character who was thinking how insanely difficult light is to dodge while having a monologue, seeing it in slowmo and having his golems transform to dispell it, or one crossing 2000 kilometers almost instantly and being "whoa, I broke the sound barrier".

And, are there any other arguments for her?

 

[GokuBold]

Van FRA