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Strongest 5-D Characters on the Wiki

Robo432343 said:
is GoW/DMC still incon even with Chaos getting NEP 2?
Click to expand...
She doesn't have it yet so we'll revisit that if the thread goes through.

Thermor said:
Anos has logic manipulation too which not many verses can withstand.
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Logic Manipulation is restricted to what it showcases even more than other abilities so it's far from insurmountable. Just having it is not any sort of win con. Not that it matters given Anos's 70+ layers.
 
Planck69 said:
She doesn't have it yet so we'll revisit that if the thread goes through.


Logic Manipulation is restricted to what it showcases even more than other abilities so it's far from insurmountable. Just having it is not any sort of win con. Not that it matters given Anos's 70+ layers.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure Anos can straight up destroys someone's logic. Hence when he erased Graham, Graham lacks logic as his aspect.

So I'm not sure how Anos is still ranked lower than Master Unit.
 
Thermor said:
Pretty sure Anos can straight up destroys someone's logic. Hence when he erased Graham, Graham lacks logic as his aspect.

So I'm not sure how Anos is still ranked lower than Master Unit.
Click to expand...
Passives likely? MU has infinite layers IIRC. Having a wincon isn't an auto win. Still you can make a match for it. My point is that hax isn't an I win button just cause the other character lacks it.
 
Planck69 said:
Passives likely? MU has infinite layers IIRC. Having a wincon isn't an auto win. Still you can make a match for it. My point is that hax isn't an I win button just cause the other character lacks it.
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I'm pretty sure Anos immeasurable speed would allow him to dodge passives and get the first hit. (Master Unit only has infinite speed listed)
 
Planck69 said:
She (now) has it. I'm not gonna argue for or against, just do with that info as you will.
Click to expand...
This thread may effect multiple verses here.
vsbattles.com

Verse Specific Powers and Abilities Corrections or Removals

With this thread, there are new rules to follow when applying VSPA to characters. I've given several examples, and those will be removed or reworked to fit the new standard. This is not just for these examples either, if you support a verse and think some VSPA is being applied too broadly or...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Robo432343 said:
now that chaos has NEP 2 it looks like she can pretty much do whatever she wants to the dmc guys while nothing can damage her
the ee nuke is probably gonna work now
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Heh? Why would having NEP make her hax more effective? She just becomes less interactable?
 
Vietthai96 said:
What?. Magic in GoW is concept type 1 and obviously can affect it, why it can't info hax the concept type 1?
Click to expand...
Info hax cant affect AE based on CM. Thats like what is written in metaphysical page

For example, per default plot manipulation would not be able to manipulate concepts, but concept erasure can't necessarily be used to erase the plot either. In a vs-debate a clash between such powers may have an indeterminate outcome, unless at least one of the fictions involved clarifies how the interaction between the metaphysical aspects works.

Also GoW CM1 doesn't matter much here since they are like 10 layers while DMC guys seems like to resist 45 layers

So it would be like: -> Cant affect AE via info, uses CM -> They resist it.
 
Hecky2222 said:
Info hax cant affect AE based on CM. Thats like what is written in metaphysical page

For example, per default plot manipulation would not be able to manipulate concepts, but concept erasure can't necessarily be used to erase the plot either. In a vs-debate a clash between such powers may have an indeterminate outcome, unless at least one of the fictions involved clarifies how the interaction between the metaphysical aspects works.

Also GoW CM1 doesn't matter much here since they are like 10 layers while DMC guys seems like to resist 45 layers

So it would be like: -> Cant affect AE via info, uses CM -> They resist it.
Click to expand...
Magic in GoW is conceptual and have info 2 hax which mean it affect both concept 1 and info 2, that mean its info 2 can interact with concept type 1. I wasn't talking about layer though
 
Vietthai96 said:
What?. Magic in GoW is concept type 1 and obviously can affect it, why it can't info hax the concept type 1?
Click to expand...
the soul > type 1 concept
If they can exist and act purely as their (nonexistent) soul with no regard for any other aspect then the informational erasure doesn't matter as they exist as an aspect that the info erasure doesn't impact
It is, for all intents and purposes, the same as trying info haxing a type 1 concept, it doesn't do anything unless the verse decides it does, which is not the case in GoW to my knowledge
Click to expand...
🤷‍♂️
 
That simply saying soul can exist without having concept. So practically similar to A immune to X hax cause it lack X aspect, not something like how you guys had phrased :rolleyes:
 
Vietthai96 said:
That simply saying soul can exist without having concept. So practically similar to A immune to X hax cause it lack X aspect, not something like how you guys had phrased :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Yeah, indeed, A with AE1 from CM1 is definitely not superior to B with Bio Hax because A is only immune to Bio hax because it can exist without a physical body. Smh
 
Vietthai96 said:
Magic in GoW is conceptual and have info 2 hax which mean it affect both concept 1 and info 2, that mean its info 2 can interact with concept type 1. I wasn't talking about layer though
Click to expand...
Vietthai96 said:
That simply saying soul can exist without having concept. So practically similar to A immune to X hax cause it lack X aspect, not something like how you guys had phrased :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
No?
In any case, I do not care enough to argue about this given the chaos upgrades, so
 
Vietthai96 said:
I mean, people was phrased it weird so i complain about that. Kind of saying GoW Info 2 can interact with Concept despite the Magic have both CM1 and Info 2
Click to expand...
I mean, fair, the issue wasn't with that, it was with the fact that the information erasure would not actually impact Mundus in any relevant way moreso (seeing as how he can act as a purely inexistent soul), interaction wasn't the main issue to begin with
 
I am honestly surprised people are arguing erasing Mundus essence by erasing it's respective rune, even tho Mundus can survive the erasure of it's essence? Like taking an extra step to achieve the same outcome as what CM does already, but alas.
 
Tanin_iver said:
I am honestly surprised people are arguing erasing Mundus essence by erasing it's respective rune, even tho Mundus can survive the erasure of it's essence? Like taking an extra step to achieve the same outcome as what CM does already, but alas.
Click to expand...
It isn't erasing Mundus, it's erasing mundus' ability to interface with reality
 
Deonment said:
It isn't erasing Mundus, it's erasing mundus' ability to interface with reality
Click to expand...
Ah so argument went the other way, reality nuking, hmmm. That would be inconclusive.

Or maybe if we wanna argue it affects Mundus ability to exist somehow even tho his Soul would still kinda exist, would it exist without reality?

If we go that route then Chaos would have won even without the NEP2.
So it's incon or Chaos stomps via reality nuke.
 
we should assume concept>information by default because you can have the concept of information but you can't really have the information of a concept
 
Robo432343 said:
we should assume concept>information by default because you can have the concept of information but you can't really have the information of a concept
Click to expand...
More robo bad takes
Anyways, me looking at digimon:
Anyways, you can pretty cleanly have information that governs concepts or concepts that govern information
 
Deonment said:
More robo bad takes
Anyways, me looking at digimon:
Anyways, you can pretty cleanly have information that governs concepts or concepts that govern information
Click to expand...
i think i just hate info 2 because of how many unfair matchups it causes and complicates things

btw do you think chaos having NEP 2 would make her above the dmc guys?
 
Robo432343 said:
i think i just hate info 2 because of how many unfair matchups it causes
Click to expand...
I mean, that's not an issue with the power, that's an issue with people's understanding of it, hate the players, not the game, and all that
Robo432343 said:
btw do you think chaos having NEP 2 would make her above the dmc guys?
Click to expand...
I mean I'd imagine so but I can't exactly be brought to think about it further, so
 
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